Triple crossplane

[eurofan]

The best new model announced at the Cologne show IMHO is not a motorcycle but an engine. And quite possibly the sexiest motorcycle engine of all time.

I'm a big fan of triple engines, I think it is the best type of engine  between 500 and 1200cc for a motorcycle. I also find the crossplane I4 a great sounding engine. A merger of the two promises to be something outstanding.

I'm betting it will have a 0º-270º-450º firing order following the other two Yamaha crossplane engines -  TRX850 (0º-270º) and R1 (0º-270º-450º-540º)

That will put it between the Triumph screamer 0-240-480 and the Benelli big-bang 0-120-240

The sound should be epic. And if it is 3/4 of the R1 engine it will have almost the perfect numbers for the perfect road bike engine in my book (750cc and 130/140 bhp)

[Kneescrubber]

The best new model announced at the Cologne show IMHO is not a motorcycle but an engine. And quite possibly the sexiest motorcycle engine of all time.

I'm a big fan of triple engines, I think it is the best type of engine  between 500 and 1200cc for a motorcycle. I also find the crossplane I4 a great sounding engine. A merger of the two promises to be something outstanding.

I'm betting it will have a 0º-270º-450º firing order following the other two Yamaha crossplane engines -  TRX850 (0º-270º) and R1 (0º-270º-450º-540º)

That will put it between the Triumph screamer 0-240-480 and the Benelli big-bang 0-120-240

The sound should be epic. And if it is 3/4 of the R1 engine it will have almost the perfect numbers for the perfect road bike engine in my book (750cc and 130/140 bhp)

Doesn't the GSXR 750 already give about those numbers?

[eurofan]

Doesn't the GSXR 750 already give about those numbers?

It is not a triple. I4s (except the R1 crossplane) are unappealing to me.

Besides a transversal triple is shorter (bike can be narrower) and has a more usable power band.

[tomek]

It is not a triple. I4s (except the R1 crossplane) are unappealing to me.

Besides a transversal triple is shorter (bike can be narrower) and has a more usable power band.

Powerband is mainly the function of specific output ( hp/litre ) not the engine configuration . If anything , engine with more cylinders will have flatter torque curve - if both power plants are tuned to the same hp - function of larger valve   for  multies  . You can consequently run less   aggressive cam timing .

Just look at newest Ducati engine , impressive power for 1200cc 2 cylinder but the thing has no midrange .  

[eurofan]

Powerband is mainly the function of specific output ( hp/litre ) not the engine configuration . If anything , engine with more cylinders will have flatter torque curve - if both power plants are tuned to the same hp - function of larger valve   for  multies  . You can consequently run less   aggressive cam timing .

Just look at newest Ducati engine , impressive power for 1200cc 2 cylinder but the thing has no midrange .  

The Ducati superquadro engine is wrong, a triumph of marketing over common sense. You will never beat an four for speed with a twin. More cylinders equals more revs equals more power.

Unless for very fast sport riding i think that a triple delivers the torque better than a four. And you have all the other benefits, easier packaging, less costly to build. And because riding is subjective for me a conventional I4 can't match a triple for fun.

IMO the 1199 should be a more relaxed, less revving road oriented sportsbike, a modern 900SS. The SBK in the Ducati line up must be a V4.

[Carbonero]

The Ducati superquadro engine is wrong, a triumph of marketing over common sense. You will never beat an four for speed with a twin. More cylinders equals more revs equals more power.

Yes, and no. You also need to qualify it with "per cc/engine size". The result of what you're saying is accurate enough, but just saying "more cylinders = more revs" is not accurate by itself.

Higher revs without self destructing come from shorter strokes and lighter reciprocating mass.

You can have a stroker engine with four cylinders that revs to 5000 rpm before blowing apart.
You can have a single cylinder engine with a 1" stoke that revs to 20,000 PM before even feeling buzzy.

Just clarifying a few points.

Also, a V-four beats a triple in terms of the combined benefits of size and keeping the torque flatter (as mentioned, typically-built I-4s have the flattest torque curves across the widest RPM range - usually). Triples are awesome, but they're just "A" design model, not "THE" design model.

There's something for everyone.  

[eurofan]

It´s debatable but i think that the triple is the best solution when you consider everything. The V4 is great but too costly and therefore is only suitable for luxury motorcycles.

The triple is the best starting point for an engine between 500 and 1200. 10 years from now i think it will be the most common engine for a road bike. THat's why this Yamaha engine is so relevant.

[Rincewind]

Sounds exciting.  As the owner of a triple Triumph, I agree that triples are an ideal configuration for road bikes.  A triple from Yamaha with long valve-check intervals, placed in a sensible riding package, would make me very interested.

[Carbonero]

Sounds exciting.  As the owner of a triple Triumph, I agree that triples are an ideal configuration for road bikes.  A triple from Yamaha with long valve-check intervals, placed in a sensible riding package, would make me very interested.

 

I continue to think it's asinine that we have to crack a modern engine for maintenance.

[1000lbs]

Having owned multiple triples and sampled the crossplane R1, consider me interested.  The sound alone should be  .  It will be interesting to see what they can get out of it, and what package they wrap it in.  Yamaha has built triples before, I remember riding an 850 special back in my teens.

The debate about the ideal cylinder configuration, meh.  I've owned singles, parallel twins, V twins, I3, I4, V4, the best configurations are the ones in my garage at any given time. Though I've leaned more toward the triples the past few years, it has more to do with the package of the whole bike then the I3 alone.

[mellow_gold]

Would love to see a Sprint-esque bike coming out of Yamaha. Shaft drive please!

[Capirex]

I'm betting it will have a 0º-270º-450º firing order following the other two Yamaha crossplane engines -  TRX850 (0º-270º) and R1 (0º-270º-450º-540º)

This confuses me.  How do you go past 360?  





From Yamaka R1 website:

Unlike typical inline-four engine design, where the two outer and two inner pistons move together in pairs with 180°intervals, the crossplane crankshaft has each connecting rod 90° with a unique firing order of 270° –180° – 90° – 180°.

My understanding of the Triumph triple is that if fires 1,3,2 every 120°.  Isnt that the same thing?  Crossplane?

[eurofan]

This confuses me.  How do you go past 360?  

A four strokes cycle is two cranckshaft revolutions or 720º.

The Triumph is a screamer, even firings every 240º of crank rotation

The Benelli is a big bang, three even explosions in the first crank revolution and a second "silent" revolution.

This Yamaha crossplane, like i initially posted might fall between.



From Yamaka R1 website: 270° –180° – 90° – 180°

That is the difference between  former an next explosion. If you sum you get the firing order that i have posted: 0-270-450-540

If you delete one cylinder it ends 0-270-450 (30º sooner that the Triumph) that i think will be the Yamaha triple

[Capirex]

Ah, I see.  I guess I left out the exhaust cycle.  Thanks for the explanation.

[dark_isz]

Relevant rumor:

Next Yamaha R6 and R1 will be triples

[HipGnosis]

Relevant rumor:

Next Yamaha R6 and R1 will be triples

Most interesting line in the article:   Our sources say that several different three-cylinder engines are under development, in a range of sizes, to cater for the wholesale change in the firm's line up.

[Aero]

I wonder if they are going to go for the firing order that Laverda used for the 180 degree triples, which had the middle piston at tdc when the outer two were at bdc (one at the end of the inlet stroke, one at the end of the exhaust stroke), effectively a crossplane design I believe? I miss my old Jota, it had a fabulous exhaust note, lots of torque and character by the bucketful!

[eurofan]

Fabulous news.

Aparently I'm not alone thinking that in the near future the triple will be the most common engine configuration. It is a great move, ditching the four cylinder in favour of the triple Yamaha can lower the prodcution costs of their motorcycles and at the same time increasing character.

Great relief.

Now that Honda thinks that the future of motorcycle are boring utilities like the Honda NC700 is very promising that Yamaha is going the other way, injecting passion into its motorcycles.

[staedtler]

 

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/yamaha-r6-r1-three-cylinder-engine-triple/


a cross plane triple R1?... yes please  

[veefer800canuck]

And Yamaha has built plenty of triples in the past.

I still remember Peter Goddard flogging the Benelli triple around Laguna Seca. That thing sounded absolutely wicked. Too bad they had no budget.  :-(

It had a special Arrow titanium 3 into 1 into 2 exhaust that was totally badass!

[eurofan]

We might hear a triple again in WSBK. Visordown speculates that Yamaha wants to return to WSBK wit the R1 triple. As a triple and WSBK fan that would be great!