Watercooled R1200GS unveiled

[UFO]

+15 hp, watercooled, more gizmos including cruise control. Etc.

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/10/bmw-unveils-water-cooled-r-1200-gs-in-cologne/

[radon222]

There is a lot of new stuff going on with this motor.  Aside from the addition of water-cooling and electronic gizmo's..the entire drive line has been changed starting with the switch from a Dry clutch to wet...etc.

I know that's since its first appearing on a GS it makes sense to most of hubbub has been happening on forums like ADV.  But I'm kinda surprised it took a full day plus to make an appearance over here.

I figured someone would have at least been wondering when the Wet-Head would appear in RT clothing.  

[Cablebandit]

Looks like the jugs got smaller.

[bubba zanetti]

Interesting. I especially like the stealth fighter inspired "duck bill" fender.

I think water cooling is pretty much inevitable in meeting emission standards if you want to deliver any kind of leading edge horsepower.

[Dan K]

I know its an illusion, but that picture, even on my big monitor, the bike looks like a miniature, almost match box size model...hmmm...

Looks pretty good regardless.

- Dan

[Rincewind]

It says it's air/water cooled, so not strictly water cooled, I believe?  I don't see any radiator, or are they side-mounted behind those new fairing bits on the side?  

It says the capacity is the same - rumor had it that they were going to bump it a bit higher.  

The new fairing looks like they put some grab handles up front for times of need.  

[radon222]

I don't see any radiator, or are they side-mounted behind those new fairing bits on the side?  

Yup that's exactly where they are.

[Cablebandit]

Yup, you can see it behind the right fork tube.

[radon222]

sans plastic

[ConPilot1]

Shaft drive moved to the "proper" side as well.

[chiltech500]

very cool indeed - anybody pick up on weight differences yet?

[Yankee Dog]

what a piece of junk. Can't they come up with anything new? It looks like a Triumph.

 

[atadaskew]

Looking forward to the new R1200St....

[vitaminC]

very cool indeed - anybody pick up on weight differences yet?

From the link above, it's +15hp and +20 lbs. Do those cancel each other out?

[Mookie]

 +20 lbs.

Lame.  It was a pig before and now, well, it's an even fatter pig.  

[Joey Stalin]

I'll be the purist and say no thanks. R's should be air cooled. What's wrong with a dry clutch? And why flip the swingarm? There may be perfectly good reasons for them, but I don't care. I'm not interested in all bikes being the same.

[highside]

Ill be contrary. I just don't like the way it looks. Its probably not true, but it just screams form over function to me, and that is the absolute antithesis to what the GS is all about.

I guess what I am saying is that it just is not the right kind of ugly to make me recognize it as a true BMW GS.

[Bain Dramage]

When I look at that bike my breathing gets shallow and rapid...

[eurofan]

Ill be contrary. I just don't like the way it looks. Its probably not true, but it just screams form over function to me, and that is the absolute antithesis to what the GS is all about.

I guess what I am saying is that it just is not the right kind of ugly to make me recognize it as a true BMW GS.

I agree completely. The GS has come a long way since the original R80 G/S. It grew older, became fatter and less agile.

I struggle to see the point of the current R1200GS. The F800GS is a better adventure bike and both R1200RT and R1200R are better tourers. In many ways the R1200GS hype is like the Harley-Davidson following.

This engine has a lot a modifications but remains air cooled with water cooling in some stress areas. MCN claims 65% air / 35% water.

[Aviator]

I likey and will most likely spring for the ADV version as soon as available.

[UFO]

I struggle to see the point of the current R1200GS.

The point is, people have differing tastes.  The 1200GS is one of the most popular bikes in the world.  Clearly people like it and where BMW is going with it.  Some may not.  They are free to ride F800s.

Looks like a great bike to me.  Will I buy one?  No.

[eurofan]

In fact I understand why the BMW R1200GS is so popular. The main reason is of course the Long Way round movie. I guess the greatest regret of KTM was not lending bikes to the documentary.

The other is that the big GS is a road bike not an adventure bike. Until the Multistrada the R1100/R1150/R1200GS was my favourite adventure bike. In fact the only ADV bike i would consider buying. I hate the vagueness of an ADV bike handling on the road.

Rode the V-Strom, hated it. Honda Varadero? even worst. Aprilia Caponord? what a waste of engine. But the GS is different. Is surefooted, gives confidence while cornering. Doesn't bounce when you brake and accelarate. I guess the majority of those who ride big adventure motorcycles like the look of an ADV motorcycle but prefer to pass the vagueness of an ADV bike handling. The R1200GS is that, a road bike that resembles an adventure bike

If Ducati wants to sell even more Multis it has only one thing to do. Keep as capable on road but make it look tougher. Offer it in khaki not red. Use wire wheels, not SSA.

[atadaskew]

When I look at that bike my breathing gets shallow and rapid...

You're having an allergic reaction.

[Lon]

I'll be the purist and say no thanks. R's should be air cooled. What's wrong with a dry clutch? And why flip the swingarm? There may be perfectly good reasons for them, but I don't care. I'm not interested in all bikes being the same.

The clutch also moved to the front of the engine - where you can actually get to it, so I hear.

"Break the bike in half to replace the clutch" should no longer be a thing.

[Bain Dramage]

I think it will be another great bike when ridden where it is intended to go - paved and primitive roads. It's not a dirtbike - and isn't intended to compete with them.

It will be interesting to see the price points, and see how sales of this latest GS compare the the Yamaha Super-T and the Triumph 1200.

I have never wished I was on a smaller bike when riding long distances on pavement, and I have never wished I was on a bigger bike when I was riding long distances offroad.

[Max Wedge]

I struggle to see the point of the current R1200GS. The F800GS is a better adventure bike and both R1200RT and R1200R are better tourers.  

In Michigan, with our roads, it is a sport-bike. The F800 is more dirt-friendly, the 1200 is more highway friendly. It is the modern standard. I can fit on a 1200, the 800, no way. I don't struggle to see the point.

[Joey Stalin]

In Michigan, with our roads, it is a sport-bike. The F800 is more dirt-friendly, the 1200 is more highway friendly. It is the modern standard. I can fit on a 1200, the 800, no way. I don't struggle to see the point.

The 1200 is the modern standard of a highway friendly bike?

[falconati]

I really like the look of it, and they did a good job hiding the radiator.  Absolutely no way I would want one, but I'm excited to see how they restyle the RT to add in this motor.

[Bain Dramage]

Also interesting to see if they lengthened the service intervals.

[Rincewind]

Also interesting to see if they lengthened the service intervals.

What have they been changed to?

[radon222]

Quote from: Bain Dramage on Today at 08:05:55 AM

Also interesting to see if they lengthened the service intervals.

What have they been changed to?

That's what we're all waiting to find out.

[Max Wedge]

The 1200 is the modern standard of a highway friendly bike?

Pretty much. It is a standard, and it is highway friendly.

What have they been changed to?

I'm betting the head is similar to the current hex head, so I would guess 6k miles.

[Max Wedge]

It does look like a hex head. Good thread with engine cut aways. Wet clutch in the front!

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831285

[UFO]

IMO this GS is better looking than the previous gen.  I know the cosmetic changes aren't major, but I think it's a damn fine looking panzer.

[Max Wedge]

IMO this GS is better looking than the previous gen.  I know the cosmetic changes aren't major, but I think it's a damn fine looking panzer.

Because it looks more like a MTS?   I agree too, just not for that reason.   Can't wait for the new RT.

[chiltech500]

I really like the look of it, and they did a good job hiding the radiator.  Absolutely no way I would want one, but I'm excited to see how they restyle the RT to add in this motor.

Question for boxer owners (particularly 2010 and newer) - have you ever had a problem with over-heating in traffic in summer?

Horsepower increase vs weight increase seems favorable as long as more is available at bottom end.

[tomek]

The engine is brand spanking new , totally new design . It shares configuration and bore/stroke with its predecessor but that is about it .
 Water cooling allows for much more aggressive tune and more efficient cylinder head design ( narrow valve angle and bigger valves ) .
It is safe to assume new engine is stronger everywhere in its rev range .
I like what BMW has done . They retain air cooling is not important areas  because those jugs out in the air anyway .

Now , those 20 pounds . It is freaking road ( in this case not roadracing bike ) bike , so who cares ?
Average STN and ADV-ner could easily off set that increase by eating right and exercising from time to time .  

BTW , looking at those pictures of the engine , there is plenty of room of overbore without the need for new cases .  This engine has room to grow .  

[vitaminC]

Even with the extra 20lbs, it's still lighter than the old R1150GS, right?

People will gripe for a while, then it will become normal and everyone will wonder how they ever got by with the old one.

[Max Wedge]

Question for boxer owners (particularly 2010 and newer) - have you ever had a problem with over-heating in traffic in summer?

Horsepower increase vs weight increase seems favorable as long as more is available at bottom end.

I have run mine at an indicated 102 degrees in the mountains and while moving, it showed 4 out of 8 bars. It has only shown 6 out of 8 once since I bought it, when it was 98 degrees and I was moving at less than 5 mph. It has never showed all 8. I was moving at that speed for maybe 30 minutes.

[eye.surgeon]

I like it. Not enough to sell my Multistrada, but its' good to have competition in the segment.

People choose Adv bikes because they don't have to be babied on bad roads, they offer a comfortable upright seating position, they can hold a lot of gear, and they are designed for real sized people. It's not only because they look butch Heck my multistrada doesn't look at all off-roady. It looks like a sport bike on stilts.

I just can't get over the boxer engine. It's unnecessarily complex for the power you get. It's an homage to their past and they need to let it go.

[radon222]

 People choose them because they don't have to be babied on bad roads, they offer a comfortable upright seating position, they can hold a lot of gear, and they are designed for real sized people.

YES-YES-YES AND YES!!  I never really appreciated how pliant the suspension on my Wee-strom and GSA were until I rode my wife's new RT.  Good GAWD...I never knew half those bumps ruts and nubs even existed...and that was just in my neighborhood lol!!

[Royal Tiger]

Even 20 pounds heavier it's still lighter then the Super Tenere.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/02/07/bmw-r1200gs-vs-ktm-990-adventure-vs-yamaha-super-tenere-comparison-test/4/

[james_g]

I just can't get over the boxer engine. It's unnecessarily complex for the power you get. It's an homage to their past and they need to let it go.

Isn't that exactly what is said about the Desmo motor too though? Frankly if it were based on maint costs alone then the GS would win hands down. Luckily there are a lot of things to go into our purchase decisions.

I'm not a GS, Vstrom, MTS etc fan but I can appreciate why they are popular.

james

[eye.surgeon]

Isn't that exactly what is said about the Desmo motor too though? Frankly if it were based on maint costs alone then the GS would win hands down.

Not the desmo in the current multistrada. 15k valve intervals, 7500k oil change intervals. One of the reasons I jumped from BMW to the Multistrada.

[R Doug]

I just can't get over the boxer engine. It's unnecessarily complex for the power you get. It's an homage to their past and they need to let it go.

   



At 110 HP and a whooping 89 lbs of torque, my BMW R1200RT puts out more HP (and most importantly, toque) than previous big twins I've owned:  2008 KTM 990 Adventure (90 HP with 62 lbs of torque) and 2005 Ducati ST3 (78 HP with 74 lbs of torque).


I find my little tractor of a mill to be simply brilliant in the twisties.  Torque rules, especially when the torque curve is nearly flat.  

[Royal Tiger]

Maintenance costs was one of the reasons for my switch from a Ducati ST3 to a BMW R1200ST.  Belts HAD to be done every 2 years unless you like blown up motors.  The Boxer is also a much better engine overall.  At least to me.  The Duc was hell below 4k rpm.  Felt like it was going to grenade itself.  I wrote a review of the two bikes.  I realize the new Multi is more advanced then the ST bikes, but we have more then a few in our Ducati Owner's Club which I still belong to.  I would hesitate to call their ownership experiences as "glowing".

[sagerat]

The boxer with the engine weight so low makes the bike a lot easier to maneuver, especially at low speeds.  My GSA has better balance than I do, which is what keeps us from falling over off-road.    

[chiltech500]

It's an homage to their past

 

they need to let it go

 

[blueridgerider]

I had a BMW before I got my GS, and fell in love with the suspension system.  The telelever front suspension was the best real world riding suspension I had encountered in my then 20+ years of riding.

I did not however, want a GS.  I wanted an RT.  Just so o you know I was getting rid of a K1200LT to get my new bike.

There were a couple of reasons I wanted the RT.  The fact that it was a touring bike was one, and a friend had given me one as a long term loan and I liked it's weight/handling and practical power enging.

I did NOT want a GS.  First of all I did not see the need for a GS - I was not an off road or frequent gravel road rider.   Second of all The Long Way Round made me not want a GS more (Bought mine in 2007 height of the series Popularity).  Sort of a Knee-Jerk reaction against it's growing popularity as an Urban ADV.

So what changed my mind?  My best friend did.  He went on a multi week motorcycle tour in Europe and the company he went with had him on a GS.  The day after he came back,  out he went and bought himself a GS.  He told me it was the BEST bike he had ever ridden.  He let me borrow his (this is the same guy that gave me a long-term loan of the RT - GREAT friend), and I came to the same conclusion.

It was so good at what I wanted in a Bike that I eventually got rid of all my other bikes (had 3) because I was no longer using them.

It is my favorite bike ever.  It is just IMO such a practical real world bike.   It is super comfortable, plenty of power (with such a nice flat torque curve), eats up asphalt - new and rough, practical suspension allows for late braking in emergency corner situations without any drama, and easy to work on at home.

I really cannot think of a better bike for my purposes.

This new one looks interesting.  Not sure about the form before function comment.  I do not really see any wasted real estate on the bike, or any real impractical design exercises.  Looks like a straight forward design to me.

This is a revolution that looks in some ways like an evolution.  We will have to see if the changes pay off for BMW.

[eye.surgeon]

What I mean when I say the GS engine is an homage to the past is based on my ownership of a couple K1200GTs. The more conventional water cooled k engines had the same displacement as the GS but left the 1200 boxer engine in the dust in every respect. Soooooooo much more power. Riding one and then the other makes you realize what you're missing engine-wise. I don't know or even understand about the difference in balance (have you ever fallen over on a moving motorcycle because you lost your balance  ) but I'm quite sure my GT didn't give up any handling to the GS based on the engine difference.

It's like the air cooled Porsche guys. You can show them how superior the water cooled 911 variants are, how much more power, more efficient, better economy, better emissions...but they always come back with balance and character etc.

Regardless, BMW has obviously seen the light, helped along by emissions requirements and the fact that other bikes in the class were running circles around the air cooled boxer.

The germans have always had a love affair with air cooling. Porsche and VW were the only volume makers in the modern era of air cooled autos.

[Royal Tiger]

What I mean when I say the GS engine is an homage to the past is based on my ownership of a couple K1200GTs. The more conventional water cooled k engines had the same displacement as the GS but left the 1200 boxer engine in the dust in every respect. Soooooooo much more power. Riding one and then the other makes you realize what you're missing engine-wise. I don't know or even understand about the difference in balance (have you ever fallen over on a moving motorcycle because you lost your balance  )

It's like the air cooled Porsche guys. You can show them how superior the water cooled 911 variants are, how much more power, more efficient, better economy, better emissions...but they always come back with balance and character etc.

Regardless, BMW has obviously seen the light, helped along by emissions requirements and the fact that other bikes in the class were running circles around the air cooled boxer.

Agreed.  I'm a former water cooled Porsche owner myself (928S).  But when you are in the middle of nowhere, not having a blown radiator hose or seized water pump are attributes.

[chesthing]

 I don't know or even understand about the difference in balance (have you ever fallen over on a moving motorcycle because you lost your balance  )

It's like the air cooled Porsche guys. You can show them how superior the water cooled 911 variants are, how much more power, more efficient, better economy, better emissions...but they always come back with balance and character etc.

The balance of the RT makes low speed handling much easier than other bikes I've ridden. I never have to put a foot down at a stop sign unless I need to yield the right of way, and I can hold a complete stop for a second or 2 easily. I could do that sometimes with other bikes, but not every time with absolutely no effort like with the RT.
The best thing about the air cooled engine is the complete lack of engine heat. If the new liquid cooled RTs have it then that's a huge strike against owning one vs the competition.

[eye.surgeon]

I can appreciate the spectacle of not putting your foot down at a traffic light, but I'd rather opt for the extra 30 HP while riding and live with the shame of a  foot down when I stop  

[chesthing]

Well, it's a good thing it is so well balanced - this bike is fuggin tall!

[falconati]

I can appreciate the spectacle of not putting your foot down at a traffic light, but I'd rather opt for the extra 30 HP while riding and live with the shame of a  foot down when I stop  

I'd rather have the fuel efficiency of the R bike.  The K bike doesn't fair as well, and I don't need the extra horsepower.  The torque of the R bike is soooooooooo perfect.  I've never found myself wanting for power.

[Neub]

 link=topic=74519.msg1735888#msg1735888 date=1350007293]


I'd rather have the fuel efficiency of the R bike.  The K bike doesn't fair as well, and I don't need the extra horsepower.  The torque of the R bike is soooooooooo perfect.  I've never found myself wanting for power.
[/quote]

Not sure what mileage your R bike returns but I couldn't ask for more than the 47mpg that I get consistently with my K1300s going 70-75 and it has +45 hp.  Even a very tough flogging doesn't drop it below 42.

[Fourstring]

What happens when a big tough ADV rider drops this bike on one of its side-mounted radiators during their awesome adventures?  It looks like it's just protected by plastic.  

[Cablebandit]

What happens when a big tough ADV rider drops this bike on one of its side-mounted radiators during their awesome adventures?  It looks like it's just protected by plastic.  

That would have to be a decent drop.  Normally they just rest on the jugs.  If you drop it on a big rock it might be an issue but 99.9% of these bikes won't see that type of road.

[R Doug]

I can appreciate the spectacle of not putting your foot down at a traffic light, but I'd rather opt for the extra 30 HP while riding and live with the shame of a  foot down when I stop  

It has more to do with engine efficiency and weight distribution.  

My point has everything to do with the different characteristics associated with K and R mills.  I don't need the HP on the road.  I'll take the low end torque any day of the week.  As an owner of a K1200S and R1200RT, I much prefer the R for a road bike over the higher HP provided by the K.  But, there's a reason BMW puts out both kinds.  We riders have different criteria on motor characteristics which fit our preferred type of riding experience.  

[Lawn Dart]

Having put 47,000 miles on a 2007 R12GS I can say that it's the right bike for the right person.  It truly is the "one bike for everything" mentality.  Comfortable, easy to ride, good motor.  

People who bag on the bike likely haven't spent much time on one.  It's a good platform.  

What makes the bike special is the Attitude it conveys.  Get on one and you truly feel like you can go anywhere...and you somehow want to explore it as well.  It's a true "Adventure" feeling.  True, 95% of GS's never see dirt - but it capable enough for a 500+# bike.  Get on the bike and somehow you just want to point it North...or South...run over a few curbs...suck small children into the wheelwells and cats into the air intake.  The drop well, crash well, carry well.

It's a good platform.  The upgrades are a good thing.

On the whole dry clutch thing - the old clutch could easily last 150k miles.  There was nothing wrong with that design.  If any particular part is durable enough and doesn't fail, then access isn't important.

Just to satisfy the haters, please note that the Final Drive is a very exposed and easily accessible location.  

[Lawn Dart]

PS:  Yeah, I do want to see that motor put into a new ST model.  

I just can't see BMW going that route...which is a real bummer.

[james_g]

Get on one and you truly feel like you can go anywhere...and you somehow want to explore it as well.

I would say that's true about the entire R series range. I certainly feel that on the R12S. Of course some of that is you bastards....  

james

[Lawn Dart]

I would say that's true about the entire R series range. I certainly feel that on the R12S. Of course some of that is you bastards....  

james

you still love me...








/sniff.  






 

[chiltech500]

We riders have different criteria on motor characteristics which fit our preferred type of riding experience

.  

Like the gentleman said in an earlier post, he had 3+ bikes and ended up only riding one, that's obviously the right bike for him - regardless of specific characteristics such as engine hp.

Based on my past ownership of a humble SV650 and GL1800, when riding my I4 FZ1, I  miss the low end... in fact I added a few teeth on the rear sprocket to get closer to the low end pull. Vive le difference

[JonS]

Apparently, BMW wants to be Ducati. Good luck, sausage boys.

[staedtler]

..sausage boys.  

[Royal Tiger]

Apparently, BMW wants to be Ducati. Good luck, sausage boys.

Other than an ugly cruiser (Diavel), BMW models are superior to Ducati ones; R1200GS vs Multistrada, S1000RR vs 1199, R1200R/F800R vs Monster, and Ducati has nothing to compete with the K1600GT & GTL.  BMW even makes a true dualsport as well.  The Hypermotard is a nice bike, but not even the best Italian one.  I have owned both brands and if given a choice I'd pick a BMW over a Ducati again any day.

[Mr Sunshine]

Other than an ugly cruiser (Diavel), BMW models are superior to Ducati ones; R1200GS vs Multistrada, S1000RR vs 1199, R1200R/F800R vs Monster, and Ducati has nothing to compete with the K1600GT & GTL.  BMW even makes a true dualsport as well.  The Hypermotard is a nice bike, but not even the best Italian one.  I have owned both brands and if given a choice I'd pick a BMW over a Ducati again any day.

Sorry the Multi1200 and the R1200GS are in different classes.  On the road the Multi spanks the BMW everywhere.  Off road...the GS works better.

[Royal Tiger]

Sorry the Multi1200 and the R1200GS are in different classes.  On the road the Multi spanks the BMW everywhere.  Off road...the GS works better.

True, but the Multi is Ducati's "adventure bike".  That's according to their own ad hype.  Like I said I've owned a Ducati and am still an active member in a Ducati Owners Club, but I'll never own another one. It was a good bike, but I'm happier in the BMW camp.  Maybe one day that'll change, but I doubt it.  I'd be more inclined to buy another aprilia.

[sagerat]

Since they dropped the ST3 and ST4, Ducati has nothing that competes with the R1200RT, either.

But sausage boys is still pretty funny.  

[Royal Tiger]

Since they dropped the ST3 and ST4, Ducati has nothing that competes with the R1200RT, either.

But sausage boys is still pretty funny.  

True, its cute, but I feel bad for the Pasta weenies.  Jealousy is an ugly creature.  

[Mr Sunshine]

True, but the Multi is Ducati's "adventure bike".  That's according to their own ad hype.  Like I said I've owned a Ducati and am still an active member in a Ducati Owners Club, but I'll never own another one. It was a good bike, but I'm happier in the BMW camp.  Maybe one day that'll change, but I doubt it.  I'd be more inclined to buy another aprilia.

No the Multistrada is a "multiple road" bike.  That doesn't mean Adventure.

[Mr Sunshine]

Since they dropped the ST3 and ST4, Ducati has nothing that competes with the R1200RT, either.

But sausage boys is still pretty funny.  

Unless you want a two up bike...the Multi again.

[highside]

Agreed.  I'm a former water cooled Porsche owner myself (928S).  But when you are in the middle of nowhere, not having a blown radiator hose or seized water pump are attributes.

Yeah, but getting stuck in bumper to bumper traffic can sure be a drag without a radiator. I guess you just have to think about the most likely or important circumstance for your personal needs.

[james_g]

Yeah, but getting stuck in bumper to bumper traffic can sure be a drag without a radiator. I guess you just have to think about the most likely or important circumstance for your personal needs.

What is this "getting stuck in bumper to bumper traffic" that you speak of? Why not just ride between the cars?

james

*edit because I left out the word "ride". D'oh.

[Royal Tiger]

What is this "getting stuck in bumper to bumper traffic" that you speak of? Why not just between the cars?

james

 

[Bain Dramage]

I got to see this one in person last week at the San Mateo IMS.

It's a sweet bike. Very low COG - as is typical with the BMW twins, it feels much lighter than it is. I can certainly see where this would make an excellent "one bike to do it all".

I can't wait to see the GSA version (I hear it's going to be 2014).