How about a mini ipad in your tankbag map pocket?

[Silverbird]

Wondering about doing this, seems like a less expensive alternative with a lot bigger screen.  More apps and probably better traffic jam protection no?

Just a thought.

[loadedmind]

It's real strange you mention this.  I was watching the presentation earlier today at work and had this exact same thought.  Well, not exactly.  I was thinking of using it as a dynamic map, but wasn't sure whether an app existed yet that allowed for offline viewing since I wouldn't really be interested in the added cost for cellular functionality.  Put the Mac iPad Mini in an Otterbox case or something waterproof (Lifeproof doesn't have one yet for this) in the tankbag and you've got 10 hours of moving maps.  I'm sure it won't be long before they're jailbroken which means one could put google maps back on it since I hear iOS 6's map app was a fire-able offense.  And at $329 for the base model, seems like a good deal.  Now if only the folks at Apple would get the message and stop using a music player to sync content between device and computer...  

[dan88z]

I'm doing the same thing with a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7". It has a GPS chip in it (I don't think the ipad does) so you don't need a 3g/4g data plan  to stay connected. NavFree app lets you download maps for every state so you have them offline. I have mine on a ram mount. The tank back map pocket wouldn't work well, the device gets pretty warm.

I got the Galaxy for $230 and an extra 32gb SD card for another 15 bucks.
 

[Mastros2]

There are cheaper 7" tablets that can do the same thing. The Google Nexus has received high marks.  

[Mr.Black]

Check the brightness before you bye for this particular application. I have an Acer Iconia that is useless in any sort of outdoor light.

[HipGnosis]

Wondering about doing this, seems like a less expensive alternative with a lot bigger screen.  More apps and probably better traffic jam protection no?

Just a thought.

Less expensive than what?
And what is 'traffic jam protection'?!?

[Silverbird]

I was talking about a substitute for GPS, that is all. The bigger the screen the less time you could spend staring at the screen and more time paying attention.  Traffic jam protection is (possible ) apps that show if there's a 2 hours delay 10 miles ahead of you so you could take the scenic route.  Unless you get off on stop and go traffic during the summer

[caddydaddy]

What about a large screen GPS, which would do only what you need and be less expensive?  RAM mount it to the bars or dash, and you'll be set!  

[loadedmind]

While the iPad Mini is more expensive than most tablets that are about the same size, it does offer a true 1024X768 resolution which means pages will display as they should instead of staring at a mangled version of the original.  I'm no Apple fan boy, but this alone is worth looking at.  Fit, finish and refinement are what attract me to Apple products over Android, but I do own a Samsung Galaxy SII phone because of how frustrating it is working with iTunes to synchronize data between smartphone and computer.  There are more and more programs being released that allow folks to sync without iTunes, but they seem to be good at one or two things, not all of the content as iTunes can do.  Personally, I'd rather jailbreak the Apple device and use scp to copy the data over to the computer - because I'm geeky like that and because iTunes has this nasty habit of wiping important data if you didn't check the right selection before the sync (which is extremely easy to do, given the confusing terminology they use).

With apps like OwnCloud, Dropbox, Google's storage, etc., it's easier to justify a device with smaller hard drive space.  I'm just getting a little aggravated at how Apple seems to get the better apps first, then they'll eventually trickle down to Android.

I was thinking about getting the iPad Mini and the tankbag that has the velcro flap over the top of the clear plastic holder beneath to keep it out of direct sunlight and perhaps rain.  So far, I'm diggin' it.  It seems devices like the Nexus and Samsung's offerings don't have the full resolution the iPad Mini offers which is a big deal for me, personally.  With the added functionality that comes with a jailbreak, I could stomach the iPad I think.

[HipGnosis]

But... that high resolution is meant for movies and pictures.  On a map, street names, directions, etc. are going to be VERY tiny.

[Croak]

While the iPad Mini is more expensive than most tablets that are about the same size, it does offer a true 1024X768 resolution which means pages will display as they should instead of staring at a mangled version of the original. 

It seems devices like the Nexus and Samsung's offerings don't have the full resolution the iPad Mini offers which is a big deal for me, personally.  With the added functionality that comes with a jailbreak, I could stomach the iPad I think.

Um, you do realize that the Nexus 7 has 1280x800 resolution, right?  25% more resolution than the iPad Mini/iPad/iPad2 have.  And built-in GPS.   Lets not even get into the whole $130 less expensive equation.  And you already touched on the whole "walled garden" thing.  With a Nexus 7 (or other Android tablet), there's no need for syncing software if you don't choose to use it, drag and drop works fine.  And don't hold your breath waiting for a jailbreak either.

Don't let the Apple presentation confuse you..the Mini does have a screen that's .9 inches larger than the Nexus 7, but it is lower resolution.  The 4:3 aspect ratio is more square than the 16:10 on Android tablets, which was what Apple was highlighting.  But that larger screen comes at an ergonomics price, width (not thickness) is the real killer in that size category if you're planning on using it somewhere outside of a tank bag. 

I bought a Black 64Gb Mini Friday morning.  And it's just not that comfortable to cradle one-handed in portrait mode unless you have basketball player hands, and Apple knew it.  Which is why they cut the side bezels down to almost nothing, to keep the width down, which causes its own set of problems as you try to grasp it one-handed, end up putting a thumb on the touchscreen, and things happen that you don't want to happen.  There's a reason why just about every other tablet made (including the Maxi Pads) have large bezels on all four sides, big enough accommodate the average thumb without impinging on the screen.

That said, it's a nicely built piece of kit, much more premium feeling than my Nexus 7.  But it's also kind of like machined billet handgrips on a bike.  Looks good, you appreciate the workmanship, but you damned sure don't want to be hanging on to those for 400 miles.  So it's going back in the box and I'll probably make a few extra bucks selling it on Craigslist tomorrow (they're all sold out up here).  Why?  Because despite the build quality, it's not a better piece of kit than my Nexus.

I should also add that I don't have much in the way of investment in the iOS/iTunes ecosystem, about $20 worth of apps and no music.  Might be singing a different song if I'd been attached to the Apple iPhone teat for the last five years, making the Mini the only viable choice if I didn't want to throw out a large iTunes/App Store investment.

[Mastros2]

Nice review Croak, thanks.  Our family is on skype more now and looking for a tablet with a front facing camera.  The Nexus 10 will be out soon so we may wait for that.  The 7 does look like a great buy.  

[TheRedOnesAreFaster]

One thing to consider if you're going to put anything in your map pocket is heat.  In bright sun, your map pocket is going to be an oven.

My Droid Razor has a tendency to shut down due to excessive heat on warm (not even hot) days if the sun is beating down on the map pocket, which is why I rarely keep it there.

Shouldn't be an issue if you watch you episodes of Glee in the shade.....

[dan88z]

What about a large screen GPS, which would do only what you need and be less expensive?  RAM mount it to the bars or dash, and you'll be set!  

I was looking at the larger screen gps's before I got my tablet. A 6" gps is more expensive than a 7" droid tablet. I figured for less money, I could have a nice big gps for the ride, and then have a tablet for other stuff once I get to my destination.

[Carbonero]

I used to use my iPhone as a gps/music device in my tank bag.. it kept overheating.

I don't do that any more.

[Fastenloose]

I do this with a Morolla Xoom tablet that has a GPS chip. Works OK, but it frequently loses touch with tje satellite and I have to stop for a minute if I really dont know which way to go. GPS reception might be better with a different tablet or an actual GPS device.

[dan88z]

Here's my tablet mounted up:

[bomber]

I keep considering a move like this, from my Garmin, and, then, I realize how much time I spend with no cell coverage, no wifi, and realize that, for my, a dedicated GPS is still the best option.

[JReazor]

I keep conmsidering a move like this, from my Garmin, and, then, I realize how much time I spend with no cell coverage, no wifi, and realize that, for my, a dedicated GPS is still the best option.

There are several GPS apps out there that don't require a data connection. You just download the maps and store them locally.

[bomber]

There are several GPS apps out there that don't require a data connection. You just download the maps and store them locally.

And the tablet knows where you are, and can route how, without a data conenction?

I am but an egg.

[JReazor]

And the tablet knows where you are, and can route how, without a data conenction?

I am but an egg.

Lots of 'em have GPS hardware built in so, the same way a GPS does.

[ApeDel]

Couldn't you use an Android tablet and wifi hotspot from your phone if thats your flavor?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[dan88z]

Couldn't you use an Android tablet and wifi hotspot from your phone if thats your flavor?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

You could definitely do that. The one I have has the GPS chip built in. No connection needed. Plug in a route or just turn it on and it follows you on the map just like a dedicated GPS.

[slayman]

My Droid II overheats in the map pocket in +80 temps and direct sun. I don't use it on the bike except for tunes, sometimes.

[bomber]

Lots of 'em have GPS hardware built in so, the same way a GPS does.

By receiving radio signals from the mothership, er, satellites?

[JReazor]

By receiving radio signals from the mothership, er, satellites?

Yes.

[Croak]

And the tablet knows where you are, and can route how, without a data conenction?

I am but an egg.

The same way a stand-alone GPS does it.  It listens to radio signals from 3+ satellites, signals that essentially say "I am Sat X and the time here is Y:".  

It then compares the time signals between all the sats it can "see", does a little math factoring in the speed of light delays from the various sats, and determines your latitude, longitude and elevation from that.  The more GPS sats it can "see", the more accurate the determination.  That's all the "data connection" a GPS needs to know where it is at, a simple radio signal.
 
Now, displaying that in a useful format is another matter, most people aren't going to know what "49.2505° N, 123.1119° W" means just by looking at it.  They want/need it displayed on a map.

Stand-alone GPS units have the maps built-in, they just plot the numbers from their internal calculations on the display in map format for the user, along with other useful data derived from those calculations like speed and heading.

Where cell-phones and tablets generally differ from dedicated GPS devices is that to save money, storage space and to sell bandwidth, they tend to come with something like Google Maps or iMaps or whatever, which "streams" the map data over the data connection "as-needed", rather than storing the whole region/country/world on the device.

This was especially true in the early days of GPS-enabled phones when internal storage was at a high premium.   Long story short, they don't need a data connection to figure out where they are, but they do need data to download the maps so they can SHOW you where you are.

But these days you can buy stand-alone mapping software from several parties, including Garmin and TomTom and install it on your device, and this stand-alone software doesn't need to stream the map data, it acts just like a dedicated GPS device.  

On top of that, you can have Google Maps "cache" a large region and/or your entire planned route corridor on the device, so it downloads it once and is done, unless you go outside the region you specified or outside the route corridor.  

[miles]

On top of that, you can have Google Maps "cache" a large region and/or your entire planned route corridor on the device, so it downloads it once and is done, unless you go outside the region you specified or outside the route corridor.  

That option doesn't work as well as one might hope.

[bomber]

Yes.

Thank you sir (and Croak) . . . .I wasn't aware of this . . .

[dan88z]

That option doesn't work as well as one might hope.

True. I was all excited about downloading offline Google maps, then found out you can only do about 6 regions, and the regions are not real big. So you'd need a data connection at some point and would have to overwrite what you stored. That's why I got the NavFree app, you can download each state individually. Each map is between 40-80mb. I downloaded pretty much the entire US east of the Mississippi for now.

[miles]

I've been very happy with Navfree.  It works fantastically well.  I only wish there were some way to pre-generate routes...

[Cablebandit]

There is.....dedicated GPS.  



They do all sorts of crazy ass cool stuff.  That said, most people just use the most rudimentary of functions.

[TuffguyF4i]

I don't commute on my sportbikes, i only sport-tour and sometimes just sport.  

Because of this, when i head out, i'm usually going somewhere in the middle of no where.  Most of the time there is no cell service...i believe apple products (like my iphone4S) don't have working GPS features where there is no data or cell.  Something to consider.  

What about loading your route and getting the GPS to follow that route all day?  How do you do that?

Plus, how do you manipulate the touchscreen in the dark, while wearing gloves, in a rain storm?  

When it comes to bike navigation, purpose built electronics are worth the money.  They work.

[DrD]

True. I was all excited about downloading offline Google maps, then found out you can only do about 6 regions, and the regions are not real big. So you'd need a data connection at some point and would have to overwrite what you stored. That's why I got the NavFree app, you can download each state individually. Each map is between 40-80mb. I downloaded pretty much the entire US east of the Mississippi for now.

Garmin has an app that lets you download large regions.  On my iPhone 5 I have North America; that and the app takes 1.8 GB.  I live in VA and recently took a trip to Portland, OR.  Without reconnecting the app, or worrying about cell coverage, or WiFi coverage, I had all the info I needed for navigation.  It wasn't free, but a lot cheaper than buying a dedicated sat nav receiver.

I don't use the sat nav to guide me turn by turn, only to update me on my route.  So I don't need to see it constantly which makes the setup a lot easier.

[miles]

There is.....dedicated GPS.  



They do all sorts of crazy ass cool stuff.  That said, most people just use the most rudimentary of functions.

They don't make or receive calls, unfortunately.  A critical failing, in my opinion.  

I want one device to do it all, and the phone does a better job of it than a dedicated GPS can.

[miles]

Garmin has an app that lets you download large regions.  On my iPhone 5 I have North America; that and the app takes 1.8 GB.  I live in VA and recently took a trip to Portland, OR.  Without reconnecting the app, or worrying about cell coverage, or WiFi coverage, I had all the info I needed for navigation.  It wasn't free, but a lot cheaper than buying a dedicated sat nav receiver.

I don't use the sat nav to guide me turn by turn, only to update me on my route.  So I don't need to see it constantly which makes the setup a lot easier.

Unfortunately the Garmin app isn't yet available for the Android OS.  

[bubba zanetti]

I bought an IPad Mini to replace my IPad1 that has done great service for many years. I looked hard at the Nexus 7 tablet, which is a very good device, but I have waaay too much tied up in Apps and Itunes/Movies so the price point difference was irrelevant to me. Don't have it yet as there is a two week wait due to backorder,  but looking forward to the utility of a smaller tablet on my travels. If was all about price I likely would have gone with the Nexus.

[DrD]

Unfortunately the Garmin app isn't yet available for the Android OS.  

Wow, that is surprising.  Can't believe they will delay too long on that.

[miles]

Wow, that is surprising.  Can't believe they will delay too long on that.

They already have.  It's been available for two years now for the iOS and not the Android.  

What is most odd about that is that Garmin actually made and Android phone for a while.

[ManWorkingHere]

I used to use my iPhone as a gps/music device in my tank bag.. it kept overheating.

I don't do that any more.

I used an iPad in/on my tank bag during a May weekend and it overheated also.  I would consider an iPad Mini would also overheat if kept in the clear plastic of a tank bag.

[cyjo]

I like the navfree, nice app. I routinely use my android phone for traffic in the car using an app called waze. It allows folks to update the map with hazards such as stopped cars, police, and dead animals. It's free on both android and iphone. Now I have a dedicated gps but I am seriously looking to mount my phone and see how it does. It is already my music player since my ipod was stolen. I recently got a new phone through work and it is a Galaxy III. Nice big screen so I think it will do mounted on the bars.

http://www.waze.com/

[JReazor]

I've been using Waze for the past couple of days. Not as a GPS, more as an early warning system. I open the app, toss the phone in my tank bag and forget about it until it says something.

The info is crowd sourced. It's only as good as the Waze community in the area you're traveling in but its been working pretty well for me so far. It probably saved me a ticket on my evening commute yesterday.

[cyjo]

That's mostly what I use it for too. I have the navigation on only to see my estimated time of arrival and speed but for the most part it is good. Although I did use the navfree app today both to and from work. I like it. a bit sluggish on my phone but I just may need to reboot.