Honda's reputation for reliability is well earned.

[birdrunner]

Reading an article on the new 500cc twins coming out, this bit of information impressed me.

Honda has a history of using 500-cc twin-cylinder commuters as racers. A similarly spec’ed parallel-twin CB500, sold in Europe from 1994 to 2003, served as the basis for the CB500 Cup in various European countries, even culminating in a 24 hours endurance event at Le Mans in 1999, where every team running the bargain-basement twin finished the gruelling race without a single mechanical problem

[Papa Lazarou]

That was then. Now, finish, if not mechanical reliability, is on the slide.

[Silverbird]

Their cars are slipping too.

[coucours grad]

everyone is going to computer controls....


And as we all know, to really fuck something up you need a computer.


   Honda cars are still some of the best out there...


   


 

[sammyseaman]

10 pages easy

This post was brought to you by biceps and lead pipes

[gritsngravy]

Gotta get into this action!


From the reviews I've read the 2013 Accord is a great car with more standard features than ever like dual zone climate control, rear view camera, 6 speed manual, I pod interface & other stuff for around 22k.

Good, bad or ugly Honda's rep for reliability is here to stay.    From my personal experience it's mostly true and deserved.     My 04 Accord had a horrible rattle develop on day two of ownership due to an improperly sealed windshield.   Fixed under warranty on day two of ownership really didn't do much for my love for Honda.    Nine years 132k miles later no issues at all.  Burns no oil and drives like new.  

No issues with my vfr.   The quality is outstanding and I can't see selling it, ever.  


Multiple old twins and fours back in the days were cheap, fun and reliable.  

[birdrunner]

Their cars are slipping too.

Well the good engineers are in the bike business again, so the accountants are now in control of the auto business.

[veefer800canuck]

My 1986 VFR750 never used a drop of oil in 14 years of ownership.
Also the only time it broke down and left me stranded was due to a bad battery, shorted internally.

My 1999 VFR has likewise never used any oil. I have not had to add to it in 12 years of ownership.
I did the clutch at like 80,000km, but that was solely "because I wanted to" when I did the clear clutch cover mod. I figured I had the cover off anyway, so....

But the original clutch was working fine beforehand, honestly, it didn't really need to be done.

And it still pulls as hard as the day I got it, and gets 40++ MPG easy.

[Papa Lazarou]

My 1986 VFR750 never used a drop of oil in 14 years of ownership.
Also the only time it broke down and left me stranded was due to a bad battery, shorted internally.

My 1999 VFR has likewise never used any oil. I have not had to add to it in 12 years of ownership.
I did the clutch at like 80,000km, but that was solely "because I wanted to" when I did the clear clutch cover mod. I figured I had the cover off anyway, so....

But the original clutch was working fine beforehand, honestly, it didn't really need to be done.

And it still pulls as hard as the day I got it, and gets 40++ MPG easy.

As i said...that was then, this is now

[gritsngravy]

Well the good engineers are in the bike business again, so the accountants are now in control of the auto business.

All their engineers have been busy with several recent new bikes, scooters and cars.  

[Rogue]

My 1986 VFR750 never used a drop of oil in 14 years of ownership.
Also the only time it broke down and left me stranded was due to a bad battery, shorted internally.

My 1999 VFR has likewise never used any oil. I have not had to add to it in 12 years of ownership.
I did the clutch at like 80,000km, but that was solely "because I wanted to" when I did the clear clutch cover mod. I figured I had the cover off anyway, so....

 

Give it up man.  You won't convince the naysayers even if you had personal experience.    My '01 VFR was absolutely reliable and I beat on that bike.  Not a single thing went wrong.  Not a single part needed replaced.  So far my '07 has been just as reliable.  Ok I baby it.  But the quality, reliability, and refinement is all there.  But yeah that was then.....  

[Papa Lazarou]

 

[gritsngravy]

Give it up man.  You won't convince the naysayers even if you had personal experience.    My '01 VFR was absolutely reliable and I beat on that bike.  Not a single thing went wrong.  Not a single part needed replaced.  So far my '07 has been just as reliable.  Ok I baby it.  But the quality, reliability, and refinement is all there.  But yeah that was then.....  

Not sure which  "now" Hondas have poor quality.   The NC700X, NT700V, CB1000R, CBR600/1000RR,  CBR250, PCX150, VFR1200, Crossrunner,  Crosstourer, CB1100,  CRF250, not to mention their off road bikes are all newer machines...plenty of reviews out there and no talk about a decline in quality, reliability, refinement etc.       Of course we all have our own thoughts and feelings of what constitutes "quality".    If anything I find across all brands generally the newer the better.       Whatever the case the worlds largest M/C maker will continue selling all manner of bikes and cars throughout the world as they have been for decades.  

[sammyseaman]

Not sure which  "now" Hondas have poor quality.   The NC700X, NT700V, CB1000R, CBR600/1000RR,  CBR250, PCX150, VFR1200, Crossrunner,  Crosstourer, CB1100,  CRF250, not to mention their off road bikes are all newer machines...plenty of reviews out there and no talk about a decline in quality, reliability, refinement etc.       Of course we all have our own thoughts and feelings of what constitutes "quality".    If anything I find across all brands generally the newer the better.       Whatever the case the worlds largest M/C maker will continue selling all manner of bikes and cars throughout the world as they have been for decades.

Sarcasm, brah. Sarcasm

This post was brought to you by biceps and lead pipes

[Papa Lazarou]

Sarcasm, brah. Sarcasm

This post was brought to you by biceps and lead pipes

 

[atadaskew]

 where every team running the bargain-basement twin finished the gruelling race without a single mechanical problem[/u][/b]

So how many mechanical problems did they have?

My list:

1987 Wing 1200 (incidentally my fave Wing out of all I owned) stator failed at 80K miles, huge job replacing it as I had to drop that car motor out of the frame.
1997 VFR750  RR failure
1999 Valk IS - 100% reliable but a crappy bike compared to the two Wings
2001 Wing 1800 - overheating issues (never cured by the 'fix'), shaft drive seal failure, frame cracked .

I do think that Honda is now on a roll, building bikes that arewell priced and well designed.

[Cablebandit]

Meh. Every Jap bike I've owned have been dead nuts reliable.

None have been Hondas.

[gritsngravy]

Sarcasm, brah. Sarcasm

This post was brought to you by biceps and lead pipes

Just trying like hell to get close to those ten pages of Honda Glory you predicted.   Maybe interject some oil & tire stuff?  

[Baz]

   Honda cars are still some of the best out there...


    

We recently had a couple of Accords that turned out to have the highest maintinance costs in the company fleet. They beat out Ford, Chevy, and Dodge.

You would have a hard time convincing me to buy a Honda. Both of these Accords were rattle traps after 3 years and 90,000 km. Worst cars I have ever driven for road and wind noise.

Here is Consumer reports top rated cars. (Note that Honda did not make the list)

Tops in our tests
Make & model    Overall test score
Lexus LS 460L                   99
BMW 135i                   97
Infiniti G37 (sedan)                   95
Toyota Camry Hybrid XLE    93
Audi A6 (3.0T)                   93
Infiniti M37                   93
Nissan Altima 3.5 SR    93
Chevrolet Corvette Z06    92
Hyundai Genesis 3.8 (sedan)    92
Toyota Camry XLE (V6)    92
Audi A8 L                                  91
Lexus ES 350                   91
Nissan Altima 2.5 S                   91

Here are their best car for under $25,000 ratings (Honda shows up here with the fit. and Civic SI)

Make & model                                    MSRP
Chevrolet Cruze 1LT (1.4T)   $21,030
Chevrolet Sonic LT (1.8)          $17,455
Honda Civic Si (man.)    $23,429
Honda Fit (base)                   16,915
Hyundai Accent GLS                   16,320
Hyundai Elantra GLS    19,220
Hyundai Sonata GLS (2.4)    22,495
Hyundai Tucson GLS    24,920
Hyundai Veloster (base, manual)   20,475
Kia Forte EX (sedan)   19,525
Kia Optima LX (2.4)    22,775
Kia Rio EX (sedan)   17,545
Kia Soul Plus    18,475
Mazda2 Touring    17,845
Mazda3 i Touring (Skyactiv)   22,745
Mazda5 Grand Touring    24,820
Mazda6 i Sport (4-cyl.)    22,520
Mini Cooper (base, man.)    20,650
Mitsubishi Outlander Sport SE (AWD)    24,520
Nissan Altima 2.5 S 23,280
Nissan Juke SV (AWD)    22,280
Scion xB    18,612
Scion xD    16,900
Subaru Impreza Premium (sedan)    21,380
Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium    24,189
Toyota Camry LE (4-cyl.)    24,060
Toyota Corolla LE    18,975
Toyota Matrix S (base, 1.8)    20,910
Toyota Matrix S (2.4L)    23,210
Volkswagen Golf (2.5)    20,930

[Baz]

Reading an article on the new 500cc twins coming out, this bit of information impressed me.

Honda has a history of using 500-cc twin-cylinder commuters as racers. A similarly spec’ed parallel-twin CB500, sold in Europe from 1994 to 2003, served as the basis for the CB500 Cup in various European countries, even culminating in a 24 hours endurance event at Le Mans in 1999, where every team running the bargain-basement twin finished the gruelling race without a single mechanical problem

Just a fanboy here folks.  

[Bounce]

I pod interface

the old 30 pin connect or the new Lightning one? does the support continue when there's a change to iOS? some mfgrs end up with "issues" as the tech side of things change.

[Rogue]

J.D Powers Initial Quality Ratings for 2012 in order:

Lexus = 73
Jaguar = 75
Porsche = 75
Cadillac = 80
Honda = 83
Acura = 84

Industry Average is 102

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/quality-press-release.htm

Bringing up the rear in order
VW = 124 (still at the bottom   )
Mini = 134 (goes to show you can have low quality and STILL sell)
Fiat and Smart = 151

[falconati]

...but Initial Quality isn't a great metric.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-trouble-with-jd-powers-initial-quality-study-feature

[gritsngravy]

the old 30 pin connect or the new Lightning one? does the support continue when there's a change to iOS? some mfgrs end up with "issues" as the tech side of things change.

Lightning......iOS.   No clue as to the tech details.  The system accepted an iPod touch just fine,  controlled it using stereo controls or controls on steering wheel.   Did everything we asked of it, seemed ok to me.

[Bounce]

Lightning......iOS.   No clue as to the tech details.  The system accepted an iPod touch just fine,  controlled it using stereo controls or controls on steering wheel.   Did everything we asked of it, seemed ok to me.

check the docs to see if it supports the new generation of iPods and iPhones. it's the inflexibility of interface that has lead to mfgrs like BMW scrambling to change their cars in response to an industry that changes each year.

[Rogue]

...but Initial Quality isn't a great metric.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-trouble-with-jd-powers-initial-quality-study-feature

It's one metric and not THE metric.  However, if it's used consistently it gives a good indication of initial quality, design, and/or any common flaws.  Is it any wonder that VW consistently ends up at the bottom when even VW admits they NEED to improve the quality of their cars, and many owners of VW's experience lots of quality issues?  No it's not a surprise.  It's also not a surprise that Lexus consistently occupies top spot.  Owners of most Lexus' are probably customers for life.  It's not possible to try out every single car make/model so JD powers & Associates IQS is a good way to judge how reliable or unreliable your car will be.  It's not a guarantee that it will be but from a statistical standpoint, it's close enough.

[Baz]

You are correct here Rogue.

If you follow these ratings long enough, the data tends not to lie. Initial problems usually extend themselves down the road.

However, one case I can use for an example was our Corolla. Remember the acceleration issue? It took that car from tops of the quality food chain to the bottome due to the size of the recall. Then back up again once the problem was corrected.

Through that whol time ( 3 years) our Corrolla did not cost us a cent, and the recall was a 20 minute stop at the dealer. So while the car had a poor rating for a brief time, the reality was that the car still remains an outstanding econobox in my books.

When you see a substantial drop in JD powers ratings, it usually comes from increased cutomer complaints. So that is something I would not ignore.

[Rogue]

Agree with the causes of yo-yo IQS ratings on certain cars/make.

An even better metric is when you look at the IQS by model.  Now that is very useful, because some models are just dead stone reliable and are built to a high standards.  Meanwhile some models from THE SAME manufacturer has an IQS rating that is at the bottom.  If you look at these then crosscheck against Consumer Guide's ratings and others online, consistently reliable cars will always pop up.

Having said all that, it's obvious many people buy cars and bikes for reasons other than quality.  I know I do.  That's what warranties are for!  

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/First-rides-tests/2011/January/jan0311-top-5-reliable-sportsbikes/_/R-EPI-128413

More than 12,000 MCN readers have responded to our Biking Britain survey this year, and your combined scores on the bikes you own and love (or hate) have allowed us to put together this definitive list of your top 5 reliable sportsbikes.

1. Honda
2. Honda
3. Honda
4. Honda
5. Honda

Honda reliability -- zombie myth that will not die!

[gritsngravy]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/First-rides-tests/2011/January/jan0311-top-5-reliable-sportsbikes/_/R-EPI-128413

1. Honda
2. Honda
3. Honda
4. Honda
5. Honda

Honda reliability -- zombie myth that will not die!

Never!!  

[Silverbird]

I think Honda's reputation for "Durability" is well earned.  You can let 'em sit for years and they'll fire right up.  Beat 'em down with neglect and they keep running like new. They also run like new no matter how many miles you put on them.  All bikes are reliable these days, but Hondas have that little something extra that makes them very special bikes.  Too bad they don't seem interested in making anything but "practical" bikes that get a zillion miles to the gallon.

[Royal Tiger]

So Hondas eating stators often enough to show up in Motorcyclists jeers section and CBR1000RR's drinking oil like an old English bike are signs of Hondas continued reliability dominance?  Gotcha.

[veefer800canuck]

So Hondas eating stators often enough to show up in Motorcyclists jeers section and CBR1000RR's drinking oil like an old English bike are signs of Hondas continued reliability dominance?  Gotcha.

I changed the stator on my VFR800 at the 12 year mark, and 50,000 miles because I felt like doing something nice for my bike, just in case.

It was still putting out 13.8 volts all the time, battery was being charged just fine.

And I still haven't added any oil to it in the past 13 years........

Now how about those final drive failures..........

[coucours grad]

And I know of 3 Civic's well over the 400k mark on a clutch and a cabin air blower motor....



    Hell, the 1500 Goldwings dont even really start shifting right till they get 75k on them then keep running till the owners just got tired of them.


   And I think part of the CBR's problem is that the bike loves to live at the red-line and lends itself to being there.


    I used to be a "anything BUT a Honda" kinda fellow....This ST and working on nieghborhood cars has taught me to look beyond that.


    They make a first class product. Compare fit and finesh on a ST to a Connie. Honda wouldnt put out a bike with plastic parts hanging out...Ill fitting bodyworks dont exist on the Honda's.


    Unless the monkey in the dealership couldnt read the assembly directions.

[Royal Tiger]

All liter sportbikes "like to live at the red line", yet only the Hondas drink oil.  Of course they didn't have the catastrophic frame failures like Suzuki.  I think all modern bikes are "reliable" at a much higher level then as little as 15 years ago.  My aprilia was dead on reliable.  Do we owe Honda a debt of gratitude for the way they pulled motorcycling out of the dark ages?  Absolutely.  But everyone else has caught up and there really is no clear advantage.

[birdrunner]

Back to the origional post:

Reading an article on the new 500cc twins coming out, this bit of information impressed me.

Honda has a history of using 500-cc twin-cylinder commuters as racers. A similarly spec’ed parallel-twin CB500, sold in Europe from 1994 to 2003, served as the basis for the CB500 Cup in various European countries, even culminating in a 24 hours endurance event at Le Mans in 1999, where every team running the bargain-basement twin finished the gruelling race without a single mechanical problem

I've never heard of a serious  (or even fun) endurance race where all entries FINISHED.

[Silverbird]

So Hondas eating stators often enough to show up in Motorcyclists jeers section and CBR1000RR's drinking oil like an old English bike are signs of Hondas continued reliability dominance?  Gotcha.

Name one make with fewer issues.

[birdrunner]

Name one make with fewer issues.

TONKA

[Royal Tiger]

Name one make with fewer issues.

Kawasaki
Yamaha
Triumph
Hell my aprilia never had a single issue.

The CBR oil issues are well known.  My point is just about any new bike is sure to be of high quality these days.  He'll even Moto Guzzi has become semi main stream.  I already stated Honda did more then anyone else to make motorcycles reliable, practical vehicles.  However everyone has caught up.

[kevinwilly]

Over the last 10 years, Yamaha has consistently been the brand of motorcycles with the fewest service visits.


I'm not saying honda doesn't make reliable machines, but they are NOT the most reliable thing out there (whether you talk about cars or bikes), and almost anything on the road today can be made to last with scheduled maintenance.

With their cars, they are made to be boring. Boring means less features. less features means less things to break. Sure- BMW and Mercedes will always require more service on their cars. But they are also jam-packed with neat shit. From my (fairly vast) experience, the build quality is higher on many other cars than on Hondas as well. The "initial quality" reports do not really tell the whole story with the car.

Also- Hondas are a total pain in the butt to work on. Which means a LOT in my book.

As far as the endurance race. Sure- they were racing CB500's. A simple, ancient motor by todays standards with a VERY low specific power output, all things considered. I'd never expect anything to go wrong with something like that. You try and get ACTUAL power out of an engine, and it'll have issues. Something with lower power like that will of COURSE be very reliable.


Anyways, I've worked on everything under the sun. My buddy's CBR929RR has been the most troublesome bike I've ever had to deal with. Has some kind of strange electrical failure almost once a year. Injection harness burning out, R/R going bad, a few other things.

For the most part, though- they are built almost identically to every other bike out there.

The whole bit about Hondas being super reliable is just the product of them making cheap, simple shit for so long. That being said- the civic is a cheap, reliable car. Perfect for someone who just needs something to get around in. I'd never be caught dead owning something that boring, though.

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

Over the last 10 years, Yamaha has consistently been the brand of motorcycles with the fewest service visits.

Where are the links?

Opinions are like navels -- everyone's got one.

[Royal Tiger]

Where are the links?

Opinions are like navels -- everyone's got one.

Still haven't seen a reliable source that Hondas are better then any other bike.  Which in case anyone missed it, is the point of this whole thread.

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

Still haven't seen a reliable source that Hondas are better then any other bike.  Which in case anyone missed it, is the point of this whole thread.

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,75227.msg1755110.html#msg1755110

Is it a peer-reviewed article in a scholarly journal? No.

Is it orders of magnitude better than unsourced opinions on a forum? Yes.

[Rogue]

You're wasting your time.  You can tell someone their house is on fire and they won't believe you if they don't want to.

[Royal Tiger]

You're wasting your time.  You can tell someone their house is on fire and they won't believe you if they don't want to.

You're so witty.  

The #1 most reliable sportbike is one that drinks oil like a 1972 Mercury.  Awesome.  No actual data, just a web poll.  Newsweek had one that said 70% of respondents are POSITIVE the CIA killed JFK. We should start issuing indictments on Monday.  

I've made my point without bashing Honda or jerking off to the Honda alter like a rabid fanboi.  They did more to modernize and make motorcycles practical.  However others have caught up and Honda has had a few well known issues.  

[Silverbird]

Kawasaki
Yamaha
Triumph
Hell my aprilia never had a single issue.

The CBR oil issues are well known.  My point is just about any new bike is sure to be of high quality these days.  He'll even Moto Guzzi has become semi main stream.  I already stated Honda did more then anyone else to make motorcycles reliable, practical vehicles.  However everyone has caught up.

You house is on fire...

[gritsngravy]

Ok it's official Honda is the worst most unreliable brand out there.   All those oil drinking CBR's, um yeah those oil drinking CBR's, VFR's blowing up after you leave the driveway, oh yeah man those VFR's suck, oh by the way did ya know those vfr's suck?   Shit man, rather walk than ride one of those damn things.  

Oh yeah then there was the Gold Wing whiners club chiming in on frame cracks, engine issues etc.   Same haters  club whined about the weight of the thing too!   Wasn't it obvious before they bought it?  

In the face of all that Honda somehow continues lure people onto their machines 'o death year after year.  

Good luck Honda, I'm sure you'll have many new riders to fool with your new models.  The EOE at ST.N know waaaay better than you how to make & market bikes, despite you being the worlds largest manufacturer.  

[birdrunner]

I'm still waiting for another manufacturer to sponsor a series, and end it with an endurance race.  Perhaps all the bikes will finish.

Sure,   ....

[Royal Tiger]

You house is on fire...

Another great Internet debater with no facts.  

[Rogue]

http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,75227.msg1755110.html#msg1755110

Is it a peer-reviewed article in a scholarly journal? No.

Is it orders of magnitude better than unsourced opinions on a forum? Yes.

Royal Tiger, here is a better "proof" other than your opinion.  But hey, like I said once people have made up their minds it's made up.  

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

Royal Tiger, here is a better "proof" other than your opinion.  But hey, like I said once people have made up their minds it's made up.  

For the sake of argument, let's say Royal Tiger's right that there were oil burning issues with some '08 1000RRs. When you combine it with the survey that's been linked to, what that says to me is that whatever issues the '08 RRs had, it was overshadowed by greater problems on other bikes.

Would it suck to have to keep adding oil to a bike or have to get new rings? Sure.

Is it worse to be stranded on the side of the road with a more serious issue on another brand? Absolutely. That's why the 1000RR is still on the list of most reliable sport bikes.

Or, maybe it's not as big a problem as RT would have you believe.

[Royal Tiger]

What other 2008 Japanese or even other liter sportbikes had oil consumption issues or even other recorded reliability concerns?

It's comical you Honda lovers keep saying these are my opinions when I have continually asked for some actual proof other then YOUR opinion that Honda in fact made the most reliable motorcycles for the last 10 years.  Web polls are meaningless.  Where is this rock solid evidence that they are the best?  Being skeptical of fanboi rants and opinions doesn't mean I'm the one dead set in my own opinion. It means I'm at least being intellectually honest and keeping an open mind for actual facts.  

[Carbonero]

To be fair, I had zero repair issues with both of my Harley-Davidsons. I guess they're the best, too.

Why are we putting so much energy into this? Seriously, it's hard to find a bad bike these days.

oy!  

[veefer800canuck]

I'll just leave this here:

http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=35357

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

Web polls are meaningless.

Do you know what the methodology used was? The sample population? Neither do I.

I also don't know of any other published reliability rankings, so the choice between soft information and no information is pretty easy here on Planet Earth. I don't know about Planet RT.

[Royal Tiger]

Do you know what the methodology used was? The sample population? Neither do I.

I also don't know of any other published reliability rankings, so the choice between soft information and no information is pretty easy here on Planet Earth. I don't know about Planet RT.

So you got nothing.  Got it.

A poll of readers for a magazine in a country smaller then the state of New York has no foundation in determining the factual content of the topic at hand.  I'm sorry this is so hard for you people to figure out.  Anyone versed in debate or even scientific study will tell you with out empirical evidence, no actual fact based conclusions can be deduced.  The ONLY opinion I have enter so far was other motorcycle manufactors have caught up and Honda is no longer the gold standard, a position none of you have been able to counter other than attacking my position as just my opinion.  The topic of this thread was Honda makes the most reliable bikes.  I have yet to see anyone substantiate that point with anything other then their own opinions.  

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

J.D. Power and Consumer Reports, which no one takes issue with, are owner surveys like the one MCN ran. I don't know what you mean by "empirical evidence". Do you mean the vehicles are subjected to uniformly controlled long term stress tests? No one does that, and to hold that up as a requirement for evidence is delusional.

Maybe you don't like the facts, so you declare them non-facts.

In the meantime, Honda motorcycle reliability, for all intents and purposes, was confirmed by MCN.

[Cablebandit]

J.D. Power and Consumer Reports, which no one takes issue with,

 

[Royal Tiger]

J.D. Power and Consumer Reports, which no one takes issue with, are owner surveys like the one MCN ran. I don't know what you mean by "empirical evidence". Do you mean the vehicles are subjected to uniformly controlled long term stress tests? No one does that, and to hold that up as a requirement for evidence is delusional.

Maybe you don't like the facts, so you declare them non-facts.

In the meantime, Honda motorcycle reliability, for all intents and purposes, was confirmed by MCN.

You should check your so called facts before you throw them up as being correct.  J.D. Powers surveys actual new car owners which must be verified by V.I.N. as opposed to allowing anyone to cast a vote.  Even potentially the same person numerous times.  Therefore that would have some level of true data collection as opposed to an open ended, non controlled web poll.  I didn't change any facts into non facts because I didn't like the data.  That would be what you just did.  

Why are you Honda fanboys so defensive?  All I have stated was that Honda has had recent reliability issues which are well known and documented and other brands have caught up, which if you payed attention in school acknowledges they were ahead before.  I don't know why this has been so hard to comprehend.  Sure I can have just given up and left this thread, but I've been trying to get you all to realize what my point was so I've been having to defend and clarify.  

Oh and not to leave you out Viffer, feel free to go back earlier in the thread and see where I brought up catastrophic frame failures on GSX-R's.  So nice link, but not new info.

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

J.D. Powers surveys actual new car owners which must be verified by V.I.N. as opposed to allowing anyone to cast a vote.  Even potentially the same person numerous times.

ACORN sabotaged the MCN survey -- I did not know that.

Seriously, your argument is that there was a conspiracy among the 12,000 MCN readers polled, such that Honda came out ahead.

Facts have a well-known Honda bias.

[Carbonero]

My goodness, this thread is amusing.  

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

My goodness, this thread is amusing.  

Like I'm a clown? I amuse you?

[Royal Tiger]

ACORN sabotaged the MCN survey -- I did not know that.

Seriously, your argument is that there was a conspiracy among the 12,000 MCN readers polled, such that Honda came out ahead.

Facts have a well-known Honda bias.

I was merely stating there is no known qualitative proof that the opinions in this thread were correct.  

However with your last post I quoted I must say I like where you went with that. Excellent job!  

[Royal Tiger]

Oh and to address the other point years ago I was semi active on a Kawasaki forum.  One of the threads was about a magazine doing some type of survey and the OP was encouraging people to vote for a certain model Kawasaki.  He even included a link right to the poll.  I'm not saying this is what happened, but it is certainly possible.  Especially in light of the rabidness of Honda lovers on here.

[birdrunner]

What other 2008 Japanese or even other liter sportbikes had oil consumption issues or even other recorded reliability concerns?

  According to the Internet?  I don't know ....   lots of "facts" out there.   Still haven't seen any facts supporting the oil consumption issue.  (Other than internet ranting,  after all "It's well known").  

At least we're showing some supporting data.


Show me some data, or even an endurance race result.

[falconati]

I love this thread.  

[Royal Tiger]

   According to the Internet?  I don't know ....   lots of "facts" out there.   Still haven't seen any facts supporting the oil consumption issue.  (Other than internet ranting,  after all "It's well known").  

At least we're showing some supporting data.


Show me some data, or even an endurance race result.

Endurance race result?    Yeah because race bikes are just like production ones.  ROFLMFAO

As far as something proving oil consumption, how about a class action lawsuit filed by actual owners?  

http://www.normantaylor.com/blog/lemon-law/honda-cbr-1000-oil-consumption-class-action/

[Silverbird]

I'd never doubt the 1000RR's burn oil and lot's of it, but it's pathetic how Honda claims all Motorcycles burn oil during break-in.  I've bought brand new CBR900RR, VFR800, CBR929, CBR600RR, and XR100, VTR1000, and 2 Blackbirds.  None of which burned a drop, EVER.  

On the other hand, all air/water BMW's burn oil, but that's a different forum

[Giaka]

   Honda cars are still some of the best out there...
 

Just dated and boring (Accord) or ugly (civic, fit, crosstour). Honda doesn't make a single car that's interesting right now. Not a single one.

[nnjhawk02]

I'll chime in w/ my .02

All dirtbikes R Hondas - never a problem (unless one of the kids friends have crashed it )

Have '02 VTR1000 - other than the stock R/R - which goes on them all & my CDI box, its closing in on 50k and Never has burned a drop of earl.

'00 Honda Civic EX - bought it w/ 120k, sold it w/ 283k - never a problem

But after my cage crash in a '99 Nissan Maxima, I'm not going back to small cars,  If I was in that Civic - I wouldn't be here to type this, but that's not a knock on Honda - any small car would not survive a head on crash on a interstate.

Will be buying a another Maxima or a SUV

[Rogue]

Just dated and boring (Accord) or ugly (civic, fit, crosstour). Honda doesn't make a single car that's interesting right now. Not a single one.

The current Civic is being made over in 2013 because it got lackluster reviews (although its sales remained high).

The current Accord (2013) has won all reviews in its class.  Not the fastest, but the best overall with a great powertrain (even with CVT) and class leading handling dynamics.  

Clearly, Honda is listening and is on a path to fix prior missteps.  Note all their new, entry level style motorcycles.    

[falconati]

I hope so - the cars are a joke.  Not even remotely on my list right now.

[Rogue]

I wouldn't call them "a joke" but yeah I agree.  Their newest offering, the Acura ILX is a joke in its class--noisy, soft, expensive, Civic with an Acura badge.  The Buick Verano outdistances it on every performance measure + better ride and comfort at similar prices.  Another "joke" is Honda's Insight hybrid (both 2 and 4-door).  Slow.  In case of the 4-door, slow, lackluster Noise/Vibe/harshness, and ill handling + ugly.  Hell the Nissan Leaf will run circles around the Insight sedan!

However, their new class beating Accord is solid proof that when Honda puts their collective efforts together, they are capable of building best in class.  Don't underestimate them.  Then there is the reliability factor.  Despite what a few people here say, Honda's automotive reliability has rarely faultered with consistently high ratings in initial quality.  Having said all that, I have no interest in buying any Honda cars.  Honda motorcycles yes.  But Honda cars (like the Accord and Civic) are like belly buttons....everyone including your grandparents has one!  Their consistent reliability and overall goodness however is what sells here in the USA.  This is Honda's largest market in the world (one of the tougest automotive markets in the world too).  That says something.  

[Papa Lazarou]

Hondas reliabilty rep is well earned.






















No it's not.

[SLK50]

Over the last 30+ years I've owned at least six Hondas.
Really liked the motorcycles, (3) but absolutey hated
the cars. (3)
As far as reliability is concerned, Hondas are primarily
the reason I'm the highly skilled shade tree mechanic
that I am today.
And I say that without any animosity at all.

[Royal Tiger]

Over the last 30+ years I've owned at least six Hondas.
Really liked the motorcycles, (3) but absolutey hated
the cars. (3)
As far as reliability is concerned, Hondas are primarily
the reason I'm the highly skilled shade tree mechanic
that I am today.
And I say that without any animosity at all.

Uh oh.  Some rabid fanboi is going to make some weak attempt at being witty since they won't be able to counter your personal experience.  

[Carbonero]

OOH! I know this game... ready...?

YEAH BUT... YEAH BUT... YEAH BUT.... Nah, I got nothin'. Never mind.  

[napper]

Over the last 30+ years I've owned at least six Hondas.
Really liked the motorcycles, (3) but absolutey hated
the cars. (3)
As far as reliability is concerned, Hondas are primarily
the reason I'm the highly skilled shade tree mechanic
that I am today.
And I say that without any animosity at all.

Uh oh.  Some rabid fanboi is going to make some weak attempt at being witty since they won't be able to counter your personal experience.  

Honda will never ask of us more than we can handle.  

I learned a LOT of what I know, mechanically, from having owned a '73 Civic for several years.  I think a warped head was an annual occurrence on that little gem.  The up side was that my buddy and I could pull that motor without a hoist.  

[Cablebandit]

Uh oh.  Some rabid fanboi is going to make some weak attempt at being witty since they won't be able to counter your personal experience.  

Almost as if Honda is the Apple of moto manufacturers.  

[falconati]

Honda will never ask of us more than we can handle.  

Honda giveth and Honda taketh away.

[Royal Tiger]

Almost as if Honda is the Apple of moto manufacturers.  

Exactly.



Posted using my iPhone.

D'uh, say what?!  

[Rogue]

I've owned three Honda VFR's.  One was in the 1980's--my first Honda.  Another was an '01.  The next an '07.  Not a single one of those gave me any problems...not ONE problem.  Zero.  All they needed was the standard maintenance....and my 1986 was rarely maintained by me either (was a kid didn't know anything).  Sister has had three Acuras.  Both pushed 200k miles.  Regular maintainance and wear items were done...never had any problems.  Brother in law had three Honda's (Civics & Accords).  His last Accord needed an engine rebuild at 400k miles but never had any single component failure except the clutch at 150k miles.  His son now drives it to college.  I regularly check JD Powers and Associates initial quality ratings--Honda consistently well above average in initial quality for years.

So I'm a Honda fanboi because of the above.

OTOH, my '06 Buell XB12R had a few parts failures on it that needed replacements within the 30k miles.  My Hayabusa started to burn oil at 40k miles even after a very careful break-in procedure by me.  My '01 Bandit burned lots of oil too at less than 20k miles.  So I will then say Buell's are low quality and Suzuki's are oil burners and all of them are POS.  [seriously no, I'm a Buell fanboi because I love the brand anyway]

Some of you people are just haters.  But that's okay because I hate H-D.  It all evens out at the end.

  

[Silverbird]

At least you know your Honda's stator will go out.  Replace the R/R with a proper unit, carry a spare stator in the trunk and good like finding anything else as reliable.

[Slartibartfast]

Ironically, the best fix for the R/R failure seems to be replacing it with one of Yamaha's regulators.

Still wouldn't have anything else under me though.

[atadaskew]

I hate H-D.  

  

What did HD do to you?
Posted on: January 08, 2013, 03:23:50 PM

But after my cage crash in a '99 Nissan Maxima, I'm not going back to small cars,  If I was in that Civic - I wouldn't be here to type this, but that's not a knock on Honda - any small car would not survive a head on crash on a interstate.

Will be buying a another Maxima or a SUV

I find this funny seeing we ride moto bikes with not much worry about how they perform in a crash.
Posted on: January 08, 2013, 03:25:57 PM

 

Oh yeah then there was the Gold Wing whiners club chiming in on frame cracks, engine issues etc.   Same haters  club whined about the weight of the thing too!   Wasn't it obvious before they bought it?  

To be fair, I did read about the weight on the stat sheet for my 2001 Wing 1800, so I was expecting that.
But no where in my owner's manual did it warn me that my frame would crack and that the motor would overheat.

[atadaskew]

Type "CBR250r Stalling issue" into google...

Even Motorcylist magazine's long term CBR 250 quits randomly.  Honda is 'investigating'.
Of course, mo-magazine's is the first that they have heard of...
 

and

 

plus some
 

[Silverbird]

I wouldn't buy a Honda built in the last few years. Their priorities are no longer what they used to be, have you seen the commercials? This is for a Civic, but if they want to get into the skateboard business then F*** 'em

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7vhqfErOlI