Honda stator nightmares

[thedawk]

To all you Honda riders out there, I have a question about failing stators and regulator/rectifiers and batteries.  I had a R/R fail on my old Honda and luckliy I was able to ride to my destination without being stranded.  Now, on some of the Honda boards that I am a member of I hear so many stories of the stators and R/Rs and batteries going bad.  It has gotten to the point that I am scared to take off on any distance anymore for fear of something like this happening to my current bike.  So I guess my question is, is there anything I can do to 1) avoid these failure, and 2) predict or have any sign of impending failure?  I don't know why Honda has these problems and has had them for so long.  I love my bike and don't have any intentions of trading it in for soemthing else, but if my anxiety gets the best of me there may be a Multistarda in my future.

[viffergyrl]

We (M.Brane and viffergyrl) have 13- and 14-yo Honda VFRs (one with 57K and one with 60K) which have had the R/Rs and stators replaced. Batteries last about 1 year but we feel that's because of where they are located - heat and vibration are your enemies. The things that Honda cheaped out on are the wiring and connectors. Some of the things we have done and do:

1. Replace stators and R/R with aftermarket parts that are more rugged (we are members of VFRD and have utilized vendors on that site)
2. Keep connections tight and clean (we use DeOxit)  - vibration and dirt are your enemies - this is now regular maintenance*
3. We have beefed up wiring in some cases and soldered connections in other cases.
4. Carry a multimeter everywhere and test battery load regularly.

You have to really love these bikes.   And be willing to work on them.

We have had a battery start to fail on us during a trip - left home with the readings just fine. The first symptom is clock resetting to 1 AM when starting up after a fuel stop. We made it to San Francisco and M.Brane got the bike down to BatteriesPlus. Bought a new battery and changed it out on the sidewalk. The rest of the trip was just fine.

So... knock on wood we've not had an electrical issue in recent history and simply expect and plan for batteries going bad on their own now.   YMMV

I recommend bike-specific forums as there is a TON of expertise and experience there to help you get your bike 'right'. Good Luck!

*Edited to remove dielectric grease per M.Brane and airwalk's comments below.

[Tusk]

I've only heard of the issues that plague some VFR's.... I don't think I'd label all Honda's as suspect.

[HanksXXX]

Very common on Honda Blackbirds too.
A Mosfet style reg/rec is a great step in the right direction:
http://roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20FH012AA%20Regulator%20upgrade%20kit.htm
Jack from Roadstercycle is a great guy to deal with.
Rick of Ricks Motorsport Electrics did a back to back test with an oem reg/rec and the Mosfet style....According to him, the Mosfet showed a 50 watt advantage over the OEM heat sink style.
Also common as mentioned is crummy connectors and dirty connections.

[M.Brane]

 Yeah inadequate gauge wiring, and too many connections. The components themselves also live a hard life on most bikes, but especially VFRs.

 Wiring, and connections are the first things to check, and by check I mean check the actual resistance with a meter. Wires can look fine on the outside.

 Test your stator at operating temp throughout the rev range for both impedance, and voltage output. Testing it cold won't tell you shit. Low voltage output means failure is in progress. You don't want it to fail completely as that will take out the R/R, and likely the battery as well.

 I consider the charging system components (especially the battery) to be consumables on any bike without an automotive style alternator. These systems are made to meet a price point, and save weight not live long service lives. Even automotive alternators wear out eventually.

[Slartibartfast]

An ammeter is the best and earliest indicator that something is going wrong.

[Tyrroneous]

Its not just Honda motorcycles...go read the Triumph Daytona 675 forums, or the Buell 1125R forums, or the Suzuki SV650 forums.  Seems a lot of manufacturers cheap out in this area. Sadly, I've owned a VFR plus all the other bikes I just mentioned.  I'm dealing with a burned stator on the Daytona at the moment.

Best thing to do is make sure you have a good MOSFET RR and that the wiring between the stator, RR and battery is all beefed up with excellent electrical connections.  

I modified the wiring on my VFR and the Daytona so that the RR outputs directly to the battery instead of going through multiple connections and stuff.  

[tomek]

OEM stator lasted on my XX IIRC 145 K miles . Regulator still tested good but got replaced with 30$ ebay 04-08 R1 unit anyway  .
Yamaha R/R is effing huge , fins had to be shaved in order to make it fit in stock location ( those from earlier R1s/fz1 fit better but they were 50-70 bucks on ebay . I`m cheap   ) .
It is not plug and play swap but if you know something about electrics you can make it work easily .

I don`t think there is something fundamentally wrong with electrical systems on Hondas , but  apparently they have no tolerance with things that are not in perfect order , like dirty connectors . And then - of course  - there are all kinds of  owner installed gizmos ,crap , etc  
Obviously preventive maintenance helps , but if are really paranoid  it is possible to pack replacement stator and RR on longer trips . They are not that heavy/big , very easy to swap .
 I mean BMW people carry spare final drives all the time .  

       

[atadaskew]

RR/Stator failed on my 1200 Wing.  They were famous for doing that.  Huge b-tch though as you have to drop the motor to change it.
Failed on my VFR750.

I had an alternator fail on my 1988 ZX10 (for point of reference)

[napper]

We (M.Brane and viffergyrl) have 13- and 14-yo Honda VFRs (one with 57K and one with 60K) which have had the R/Rs and stators replaced. Batteries last about 1 year but we feel that's because of where they are located - heat and vibration are your enemies. The things that Honda cheaped out on are the wiring and connectors. Some of the things we have done and do:

1. Replace stators and R/R with aftermarket parts that are more rugged (we are members of VFRD and have utilized vendors on that site)
2. Keep connections tight and clean and protected with dielectric grease - vibration and dirt are your enemies - this is now regular maintenance
3. We have beefed up wiring in some cases and soldered connections in other cases.
4. Carry a multimeter everywhere and test battery load regularly.

You have to really love these bikes.   And be willing to work on them.

We have had a battery start to fail on us during a trip - left home with the readings just fine. The first symptom is clock resetting to 1 AM when starting up after a fuel stop. We made it to San Francisco and M.Brane got the bike down to BatteriesPlus. Bought a new battery and changed it out on the sidewalk. The rest of the trip was just fine.

So... knock on wood we've not had an electrical issue in recent history and simply expect and plan for batteries going bad on their own now.   YMMV

I recommend bike-specific forums as there is a TON of expertise and experience there to help you bet your bike 'right'. Good Luck!

Yep.  All good recommends.

Add to the list the PC800.  Another "bulletproof" Honda with stators/rr's being a known weak link.  I haven't had this issues myself (dare I say yet) but they are always in the back of my mind.  I have voltmeters installed on both my VFR and the PC.  Seeing the steady, glowing 14.5 when a thousand or more miles from home gives me some reassurance.

[thedawk]

Thanks for the inputs guys.  I have heard about and considered the R1 regulator/rectifier as it was a popular "remedy" I recall several years ago.  I have not heard of the mosfet r/r, so I will look into that as well.  Recommendations seem to be all over the place, however, from strictly replacing with OEM to
going with Electrix (sp?) or Rick's to modifying the existing with super grounds and copper or aluminum mounting plates, etc.  I guess I am somewhat glad to hear that this problem is not just a Honda issue. It just gripes me to think that the manufacturers can't come up with something more reliable these days.  I would really like to ad some aux lighting (CBR lighting is pathetic), but just don't want to add anything that is gonna tax the electrical system any more.  I'm even hesitant to plug in my phone or gps  to charge anymore!

[viffergyrl]

Thanks for the inputs guys.  I have heard about and considered the R1 regulator/rectifier as it was a popular "remedy" I recall several years ago.  I have not heard of the mosfet r/r, so I will look into that as well.  Recommendations seem to be all over the place, however, from strictly replacing with OEM to
going with Electrix (sp?) or Rick's to modifying the existing with super grounds and copper or aluminum mounting plates, etc.  I guess I am somewhat glad to hear that this problem is not just a Honda issue. It just gripes me to think that the manufacturers can't come up with something more reliable these days.  I would really like to ad some aux lighting (CBR lighting is pathetic), but just don't want to add anything that is gonna tax the electrical system any more.  I'm even hesitant to plug in my phone or gps  to charge anymore!

So it's not clear to me from your original post that you have a problem or not. If you don't have a problem today, but you fear you might in the future, then arm yourself with knowledge of YOUR bike. What you are getting is the sum of our experiences, not our path on how we got there. As a general rule of thumb start with the easy stuff first - take your multimeter and measure the inputs and outputs and compare them to spec. Then go through your connections, clean, grease, replace or solder if necessary. Take the measurements again and see if you need to do any replacing of parts. Be logical and methodical. You may not have anything to fear!

Case in point - Mr. Kneescrubber on this forum: He has a 5th Gen VFR but hasn't had the level of electrical problems most of us have had. YMMV (and quite widely).

But knowledge is power. I run a radio and my Gerbings off my VFR; M.Brane runs a radio, heated grips, a radar detector, AND his Gerbings off of his VFR. Because we know we can.

Good luck!

[Rogue]

Had an 01 VFR800 for a few years and didn't have any stator/R/R problems.  I replaced the battery once after the OEM one served its 60 mos.  

My current '07 has so far had no stator/R/R problems.  Still on its original battery. Only 23k miles though but owned since '08.

I wouldn't hesitate to ride it across the country.  

[HanksXXX]

Shindegen is the manufacturer of the Mosfet style regulators used on the R-1's and also the FJR1300's, among others.
The roadstercycle kit I used had a Shindegen regulator from a 2007 FJR1300.
While I'm sure you could find a used one in a salvage yard somewhere, the kit also includes the proper waterproof connectors,  2 different size terminal ends for the connectors, a circuit breaker for the positive lead, and enough heavy gauge wire to do the install properly. I figured it wasn't worth the time to chase all that stuff nor did I want to cut the connectors off a wreck, cut the old ones off the bike, and have a solder joint in each wire.
Once installed, I ran heated gear and a radar detector with the display set to battery voltage. Readings were a very consistant 14.2 or 14.3 volts which brought piece of mind back. It really bothered me having to carry spares and tools, just waiting for the POS to break down and leave me stranded along the side of the road, 500 miles from home....again.
FWIW, the instructions said to run the + and - leads to the battery terminals. I followed the cables and ran the new leads to where the cables attached, cleaning each connection and using di-electric grease. I then went over all other connectors and did the same and had no more problems.

[M.Brane]

Thanks for the inputs guys.  I have heard about and considered the R1 regulator/rectifier as it was a popular "remedy" I recall several years ago.  I have not heard of the mosfet r/r, so I will look into that as well.  Recommendations seem to be all over the place, however, from strictly replacing with OEM to
going with Electrix (sp?) or Rick's to modifying the existing with super grounds and copper or aluminum mounting plates, etc.  I guess I am somewhat glad to hear that this problem is not just a Honda issue. It just gripes me to think that the manufacturers can't come up with something more reliable these days.  I would really like to ad some aux lighting (CBR lighting is pathetic), but just don't want to add anything that is gonna tax the electrical system any more.  I'm even hesitant to plug in my phone or gps  to charge anymore!

 With a shunt R/R running accessories actually makes it's life easier as it has less excess current to convert to heat.  As long as you don't draw more current than the system can produce you'll be fine.

[airwalk]

everything mentioned in above posts seems valid. however, there is an ongoing discussion about dielectric grease being an electrical insulator that can hinder current flow thru connections. more specialized oxidation preventing/connection enhancing  products are readily available(ox gard,etc.)  also, I can't emphasize enough the benefits of having a mounted & visible monitor such as a voltmeter, either digital or analog.  ammeters also work well but are tedious to place due to much heavier wiring needed. they are a better idea for giving more instant reports of charging problems, voltmeters are a bit slower to indicate deficiencies

[Slartibartfast]

 With a shunt R/R running accessories actually makes it's life easier as it has less excess current to convert to heat.  As long as you don't draw more current than the system can produce you'll be fine.

Hallelujah! Finally someone who understands how the SCR version works. Don't be surprised if your opinion draws a number of scoffs and blank stares though.

[viffergyrl]

everything mentioned in above posts seems valid. however, there is an ongoing discussion about dielectric grease being an electrical insulator that can hinder current flow thru connections. more specialized oxidation preventing/connection enhancing  products are readily available(ox gard,etc.)  also, I can't emphasize enough the benefits of having a mounted & visible monitor such as a voltmeter, either digital or analog.  ammeters also work well but are tedious to place due to much heavier wiring needed. they are a better idea for giving more instant reports of charging problems, voltmeters are a bit slower to indicate deficiencies

Excellent point - I'll check what we have and edit my post above.  

[airwalk]

www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/ammeter.html.....       just a little more on my previous post, well written & pretty easy to understand.

[M.Brane]

everything mentioned in above posts seems valid. however, there is an ongoing discussion about dielectric grease being an electrical insulator that can hinder current flow thru connections. more specialized oxidation preventing/connection enhancing  products are readily available(ox gard,etc.)

 Yeah lately I have stopped using the grease on connectors, and simply clean them with DeOxit. It seemed the grease was collecting too much dirt, and retaining too much heat. I use Fader Lube on controls/switches that need lubrication. The grease is still not a bad idea I think if the bike spends lots of time in high humidity, and/or corrosive conditions you just need to use it sparingly.

[Slartibartfast]

www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/ammeter.html.....       just a little more on my previous post, well written & pretty easy to understand.

Good article, if a bit dated. The information is still relevant. Ammeters don't necessarily need to have the main feed run through them though, some of the nicer units I've seen come with a shunt that wires in at the battery and only require a light gauge connection to the shunt to do their job. Quite simple to install and, as the article indicated, they give you a real-time look at what's happening rather than something after the fact.

[Andrew]

Well in all honesty you must admit "It is A honda"

Honda does make nice smooth engines but seems a bit lacking in the electrical side of things.

[Mydlyfkryzis]

I have this on my bike (for about 5 years now). Volts, Amps, outside temp...Works nicely.




https://www.kisantech.com/view_product.php?product=CG-25

[LENSMAN]

   This is a problem with the CBR1100XX Blackbird as well.

[Silverbird]

A Honda with a spare stator in the trunk is THE most reliable bike you are EVERY going to find.

[Slartibartfast]

A Honda with a spare stator in the trunk is THE most reliable bike you are EVERY going to find.

Once you've replaced the R/R with one from an R1, I completely agree.

[Silverbird]

Yeah, that too. And maybe some enlarged fork seal guards made from a 2 liter bottle.

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah, that too. And maybe some enlarged fork seal guards made from a 2 liter bottle.

Bigger than the ones it already has? Seems a little extreme. What problems have you had with seals?

[Silverbird]

None, but it's cheap insurance. Leaky fork seals are dangerous and sometimes overlooked on a long trip because everything else gets so dirty.  Oil dripping onto your rotors is a BAD thing, don't ask how I know that...

[Slartibartfast]

I'll have to take your word for that. I'm a bit of a freak for maintenance and my forks come apart every couple years to clean them and replace the fluid. That means new seals as well. The last seal failure I experienced was on a three year old 1977 RM 125 that I was in the habit of severely abusing.