Post ESTN accident report.

[basco]

I am glad to hear you guys are ok.  

I thought I saw you on the BRP at one of the turnouts. Who would have thought something like this would happen soon after.

Seeing things come up quick and Mr. SS quoted this, about misjudging speed of objects. It happened to me a couple times this past weekend but I was able to compensate. Maybe Holly misjudged distance rather than following too close. I am really not defending her but I know some about misjudging distance and target fixation and offering another possible scenario.

[SuperHans]

I thought I saw you on the BRP at one of the turnouts. Who would have thought something like this would happen soon after.

Yep, that was us, I so you go by on a Sprint ST.

[uvakat]

Glad to see that you guys are doing okay. Holly, hope you heal up quickly.

[evilmedic13]

Glad to hear everyone is okay. Sounds like a bad way to end a good day, but everybody went home and the bike'll get some new pieces instead of Holly.

[MacGyver]

Did somebody say 1098?  

[Tyrroneous]

I have read alot of comments from you guys/girls who have ABS in which you state that you have never tried it or pushed it to that limit just to see how it works......... good for you... DONT try it.

I gotta disagree with the above statement.  I don't understand the reason to NOT tryout the ABS systeme.  By all means, experiment with your ABS systems.  Get to know what it takes to activate it, how it feels, how the bike responds when the ABS is kicked in.  All that knowledge might come in handy at some point.  I generally activate the ABS once or twice a week just for kicks.  

On my VFR, the only thing that lets me know the ABS is activated is the chirping of the tire.  There is no pulsing in the lever at all.  


Anyway, I'm off the ol' soapbox now.  

Holly and Scott, I'm glad things didn't turn out worse.  Sounds like y'all handled it about as well as could be expected.  Heal quickly Holly!

As I leave for my trip the the mtns. this weekend, this will serve as a fresh reminder to watch my following distance.  

[servicerifle]

Not that this thread should be jacked and switched to an ABS thread, but I will add my 2 cents in, as well.  I'd like to have ABS, but don't on my current bike and my "next" planned bike doesn't have it either.  IF I had it, I must admit, I would test it.  I'm just that kinda person.

[Shhted]

 

Sorry to hear about the crash, but glad that everyone was able to walk away.  Heal quick and heal well.

Seconded.

[photomd]

Scott and Holly,

I'm very sorry to hear about your accident. FWIW, if you come to SC, realize that vehicles down here don't have to have operating brake lights.   Southern logic.

It's great to hear that y'all are OK. Holly, also give yourself time to heal. Bones take 4-6 weeks to heal and there's some important stuff next to that fracture.

As for ABS, I test mine every time flush the brake fluid: about every 10K miles. Mine has never threatened to stand up. I've even leaned up on the tank like I do on my CR to do a stoppie. It just calmly comes to stop...very quickly. On my version of BMW's ABS, you can hear the pump motor cycling. I don't think mine compares front to rear wheel speed. I think it simply monitors the rate of decel.

As for doing a stoppie, on my CR the forks must first compress then you really do have to lock the front a bit to get the rear to come up. I'm not an expert at this and mine are kinda wimpy... maybe 12 inches up in the rear. However, it does take some pretty strong inputs to get the rear off the ground. I don't think ABS would allow this...of course I've been wrong before.  

Anyway, glad y'all are OK. Ride safe.  

[DNA]

Sad news - I hope the healing goes well.
The bike will get fixed or replaced.
Is there any long term prognosis on the fracture?
I still hurt from an accident 20 years ago that continues to deteriate.
-DNA
PS - Great job stopping and a good write up.   Had that been the NoVA group, we'd all be truck paint.

[Penforhire]

Wow.  This could have been much worse.  Thanks for describing a hazard we don't usually think about in such detail.

Regardless of whether ABS would have influenced this result, I decided years ago to not buy a new street bike without it.  As you noticed panic diminishes skill, by definition.

[R Doug]

I just wanted to chime in and throw out my condolances of having to go through that experience.  It was nice having breakfast with all you Sunday morning.

Scott, that was an excellent report on what happened and I did receive a "takeaway" from your report.  Motion Camouflage is something I'll need to be more attentive to going forward.

Holly, thanks for chiming in.  Heal up and please give us updates on your progress.

[Holly]

Thank you for all of the well wishes.  I'm not good at "taking easy".... I fairly well loose my mind if I'm not doing something all the time, so this stay-at-home-and-rest thing has been tough.  I think I've scanned, filed, FAXed just about every piece of paper I can find on my desk plus some! lol....

Scott keeps telling me to go for a soak in our hot tub, but that would mean more bending over.  My back still isn't thrilled with that movement, though it is getting better.

With regard to my prognosis... I've been trying to get in to see an orthopedic and neurologist all week.  So far, no discernible progress has been made (all the neurologists I've reached out to don't want to deal with me until the medical coverage from my motorcycle insurance has been exhausted... guess they've had bad experiences getting payment from insurance companies?).  With regard to the orthopedic specialist... they don't want to see me until the ER medical report is release to them which involved ortho FAXing a form to me so I could sign and FAX it to the hospital.  Now I'm waiting for healthcare bureaucracy to slowly churn and FAX the report to ortho.  Maybe I'll get a call back to schedule an appointment next week, which... as luck would have it, is when I need to return to work... in NYC and away from all the medical offices I’ve been dealing with .

Have I mentioned my life is complicated?  

[Lon]

Oh... and here's a snap shot of the internal damage:

Glad you're (mostly) okay!  Rest up, and get back on a bike as soon as you can.  I don't know your crash history, but the longer you wait, the harder it is.

[Lon]

I have read alot of comments from you guys/girls who have ABS in which you state that you have never tried it or pushed it to that limit just to see how it works......... good for you... DONT try it.

I do it occasionally as part of hard-stop practice.  I nail each one independently as well as both at the same time.

[Against The Wind]

Wow! I missed this thread up till now. Sorry to hear about the crash. And let me add my best wishes for a speedy recovery. It was great to chat with you in the parking lot so it comes as a bit of a shock to find out later that the same people were involved in a mess. It is ironic that many spent the weekend thrashing the bikes over incredibly twisty roads only to have this happen on a flat straight. On the other hand, there were almost no 4 wheelers on the twisties, so maybe it's not irony. In any event, heal well.

[Fun Dog]

"Eric, Pam, Frank and I then hit the road at about 11pm and rode the 180 miles back to my house in Harpers Ferry, where we all crashed. The next morning, Eric, Pam and Frank hit the road for home (PA), and I drove back to Lynchburg to pick up Holly."

Frightened me there...thought the 3 of you wrecked again when you got back to Harper's Ferry.

Glad everyone's O.K., and thanks for this report as I have never heard of this "closing/rushing" phenomenon before.  I'll try to beware of it.

[TWI]

Well, according to what I can get out of this link, I suppose even with ABS, unless you lock the front wheel into a slide so the ABS kicks in then the rear end can and will come up and over your windscreen you will go.

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP209.html

I have read alot of comments from you guys/girls who have ABS in which you state that you have never tried it or pushed it to that limit just to see how it works......... good for you... DONT try it.

Excuse me while I wave the BS flag.  BS!!

I have tested the ABS on my bike and on the previous ones I have owned with ABS.  They work as advertised.  

As far as the link:  So the CG is 2" above the seat.  For a 100 lb rider as well as a 300 lb rider?  For a 300 lb bike as well as a 800 lb bike?  But wait, it must correct; it has a spreadsheet in it!


I believe SWRiverstone's original observation was correct.  The bikes with ABS behaved better in an emergency situation.  This is not to discount Holly's control; she did the best one could hope for given the situation.  Keep on healing, Holly.

[MacGyver]

Wanna learn how your bike behaves at lower braking friction limits?  Go blast down a dirt road on your bike.  Harley, Bimmer, it really doesn't matter.  After years of driving all types of bikes down dirt roads,  I have no qualms about hammering down on either the front or rear brakes at any speed.    Two wheel slides?  ,  If you stay limber you can retain the fine motor function in your hands which is neccessary for modulating brakes by hand.  Tuck the front end?  Only if your a retard hellbent on making the orthopedic surgeons of the world rich.    
Holly's response was the best anyone could expect in those conditions.  Holly, heal quickly with your live-in Dr. Seuss.

[chornbe]

Scott, et al, I'm glad everyone is OK. Bikes can be fixed or replaced easily enough; they're just machines. That truly sucks that the other vehicles were obviously too busy to stay and help  

Completely agreed on the ABS!! I won't go back.

And coming from a gear whore and borderline safety nazi, Great Job on WEARING THE GEAR!!