V-Strom 650 or 1000?

[SWriverstone]

I dunno...I like light handling...but the heavier rotational mass and low RPMs at highway speeds of the 1K are a big   for me! I never liked bikes that go "NEEEEEEEEEEEE" down the highway. Far better to go "OMMMMMMMMM!"   (Just make those sounds out loud and you'll hear a big difference, LOL.)

Scott

[Sport-Touring]

[Nitro]

well i got my 650 to 190kph  yesterday, 2nd time out with it since I bought it on sat.. I expect it will have more once it loosens up a bit...
Blows away the 1000 easily............






in the price dept!  


I myself cant see why anyone would spend any more money on such a ugly creation  for the 1000, if you want the power, and have the cash...buy a nice st  bike!
But then again..to each their own right? get what turns you on man!

As for me..yep i have a 650..buts its only for 2 up riding, and for that, and for the price, it cant be beat far as I can see..great bike for 2-up..great pillion seat, good handling, goes faster than my passenger likes,so why would I need a 100 for that? gets great gas mileage..works great for a cheapo bike! hard to beat..
solo?.. uninspiring cheap transportation, but it works ok!

[SWriverstone]

I've been surfing the V-Strom forum - http://11109.rapidforum.com - and this topic (650 vs. 1000) has apparently been beat to death over there!   I found this post which I think is a slam-dunk for the 1000...which I'm definitely leaning toward...

-----

Gosh, been tooo long since we've had the debate that will never die.

Like a train wreck, i was trying not to look, but when Monkeybrain told you to buy a 650, I felt I had to come in and defend the fatter of the girls. Here is my take and many know I don't hold back. Let's again look at some numbers and FACTS:

Let's see:

DL-1000
98.00 HP @ 7600 RPM
74.5 ft.lbs @ 6400
456.4 pounds (dry)

DL-650
64 HP @ 8500 RPM
48 ft lbs @ 7400 RPM
417 lbs (dry)

So in short, for 91% of the weight, you're only getting 65% of the HP and only 64% of the torque when compared to the DL-1000

I've heard a lot of arguments, and IMO most are based on perception, prejudice and folklore. Take a look at the actual numbers above and let's apply these to what it means to the guy out riding:

DL-1000 is handicapped only 37lbs of weight to gain 34HP! That is nearly 1HP per pound! Why would anyone not take that option?? I don't care what the vehicle, anytime you can get another HP per pound you take it. Not to mention, half that weight can be made up by taking the OEM boat-anchor exhaust off and then your weight to HP ratio between the two bikes is even more dramatic. The reason for changing exhaust on the men's version is not for the couple of HP, it is for the 15+lbs less weight.

Torque: speaks for itself, and I'll comment below on why it is especially important.

Myth:
The 650 does better in the dirt.

Fact: The 8% weight difference does not make that much of a difference in dirt. Both bikes are fat trailies. In fact, why not go with GS650dakar if you think the DL-650 is a dirt choice. The reality is that it is a Big Trallie with a weaker engine.
 
I am constantly told the "I bought the 650 because I like to go in the dirt" --- Let me tell you, if you think that the HUGE difference in torque, doesn't more than make up for the (very) few lbs I want a hit off of your pipe -and I'm not talking exhaust pipe!
 
With the Men's version (1000) you can be in third gear and have a huge range. You better be one hell of a dirt rider to shift that 650 engine up and down to compete with the torgue of the DL-1000 on the rough-and-tough terrain.

Now, the DL-1000 is no slouch in performance, but come on, it isn't some road-blistering sport bike. !!!Half of the 600cc sports bike have more HP!!!!, so really, it is not unmanigeable and nothing that should be considered scary. In fact in many ways (as I described above) the engine is easier for a intermediate rider.

So, doubters want to talk about the frame geometry and tell me that the DL-650 is "more flickable in the twisties"? OK, hang your hat on that if you believe it, I think the slight difference is rake won't make a diffrence in the riding that people who buy these bikes do. You don't have to agree with me, but these are facts, ...best way to convince me that the 650 is better in the dirt or more flickable in the corners?: SHOW ME.

Conclusion: Buy a DL-1000

-----

[garry]

Ride them both and make up your own mind Scott. The 1000 did absolutely NOTHING for me. The 650 was fun. Don't buy bikes based on specs. RIDE THEM and buy the bike that gives you wood. And FWIW, more power isn't necessarily better on unpaved surfaces. The overwhelming opinion of those that have ridden both is that the 650 feels much more nimble in the twisties than the 30 pounds on the spec sheet would indicate.

EDIT: Just happened to be browsing the "Beasts" section on ADVrider and came across this quote in the "Trying to Love the V-Strom" thread:

I had an '03 DL1000. I now have an '05 DL650. Neither one ever inspired me to pause and gaze at their graceful, flowing lines. The 1000 in particular was as ugly as a hatful of smashed assholes. But you can't see any of that from the saddle. And not that anyone asked (at least not in this thread) but for me the 650 is by far the better bike. The specs would not indicate they're that different, but on the road they are.

[SWriverstone]

Good point Garry, and I hear what you're saying. In fact, what are you doing next weekend?   (June 9-10). I'd love to meet you halfway and take your Wee for a spin. Meanwhile, I really want to find someone who'll let me ride their 1000 too.

I'm certainly not already fully in the 1000 camp—I want to make the best decision, because frankly, I think buying and selling bikes is a pain!   I plan to keep this next one for a long time. (I know—famous last words, LOL.)

Even after reading piles of posts favoring both, I'm still simply stuck in the middle...so you're right, riding both will probably be the tiebreaker!

Remember, I'm keeping the KLR, so I'll ride that if I think I'm going to do any significant off-pavement riding. The Strom will be almost exclusively for pavement. (So for me, that negates any superior offroad handling of the 650.)

I'm also a "quiet bike" rider, meaning I love it when bikes make as little noise as possible, and as little vibration as possible. Even on my VFR, I'm guilty of half-lugging the engine and staying way low (in RPMs) in every gear, just because I like that "loafing along" feel of the engine. High-pitched, revvy, whiney high-RPM stuff just gets on my nerves. LOL (And yes, I've had to get used to that with the KLR!)

So those are the reasons why I'm leaning toward the 1000 based on what I've read...but riding both might change that!

Scott

[DogBoy]

Scott, there are hundreds of posts like that on 11109 forums, Stromtroopers.com and ADVRider. Some favor the 650, others favor the 1000. As garry said, you can't just look at the spec sheet. Stats can be misleading as the post you quoted doesn't mention 1/4 miles times or top gear acceleraton. Remember, all those stats only talk of peak power or wide open throttle which, according to you, is where you spend very little of your riding. The post you quoted doesn't mention fuel mileage which appears to be very important to you from your many posts on the enviroment.

Both are really great bikes and you can't go wrong with either one.

[garry]

If/when you get a demo of the 1000, note that they are notorious for needing a TBS sync, even when brand new. Many people also drop a tooth on the front sprocket to wake the motor up a bit. If the TBS is way off on the 1000, it will run quite rough below 4K RPMs. The Wee is pretty much good to go from the factory from a fueling perspective. All these points are hashed to death on the StromTrooper and that VStrom International forums. Lots of great info on those sites. Much like the KLR, expect to spend a little money farkling the bike and sorting it out for your needs.

RE: Wee demo
I may be able to spring free next weekend for a ride. My son graduates from high school that Friday night and I expect family to still be around Saturday morning before heading back to NJ. Saturday is my birthday too (old fart now older), not sure what the wife has planned. But Sunday the 10th is a very good possibility. I could probably meet you near the 219/50 junction (just south of Oakland, MD). That'd be an easy ride on route 50 for you and not bad ride from Pittsburgh thru the Laurel Highlands for me. From there we can hit a bunch of varied roads from higher-speed sweepers, to goat paths, to dirt if wanted.

[SWriverstone]

Good points again DogBoy and Garry. There is an '06 (or "K6" as they say on the Strom forums) in a local showroom begging to be taken home for $5999, so I can certainly imagine my name on it.  

Yes, I'm almost exhausted already by all the mods and farkling...I just about wore myself out doing that to my KLR last fall.   (And I'm thinking...oh no! Here we go again!)

Hopefully, though, the Strom (either one) will have a shorter list of "must-have" mods than the KLR (e.g. no doohickey). I figure some crash bars and a better skid plate, a better pair of tires (than factory Trailwings) would be fie for starters.

My plan right now (for either Strom) is to keep my Givi E41s, and buy the SW-Motech racks—I like being able to quickly/easily take the racks off as well as the bags.

Let's touch base during the week about Sunday Garry...but sure, 219/50 sounds like a good possibility!

Scott

[DogBoy]

There's nothing wrong with the stock Trailwings for paved roads or dry gravel roads. You can scrape foot pegs all day long with the Trailwings with no fear of loosing grip.

One of the problems with brand specific boards is people get carried away throwing every farkle at a bike and announce huge improvements to justify their spending. Most bikes work great right off the showroom floor.

[SWriverstone]

That's good to hear DogBoy. Believe me—after all the modding I did to the KLR, I'm not inclined to spend hours (and tons of cash) on a Strom! (Though I have to say I think in the KLR's case, all the modding really did result in a far more robust and crashproof bike!)

Scott

[garry]

My Wee Strom is appropriately farkled I think:

- centerstand
- Madstad bracket and MRA windscreen
- stiffer fork springs
- stiffer shock spring
- Suzuki gel seat (adds 1" of much needed height to the 650)
- Suzuki hand guards (for weather protection, not crash protection)
- Givi crash bars
- AMoto skidplate
- Tourance tires
- $20 toolbox/topcase from Lowes

The only mod that really didn't make a significant improvement was the Madstad bracket. The MRA screen did a good job, but I figured I'd risk the $80 and see if I could get reduced wind noise. Stiffening the suspension with new springs is a must do and I only weigh maybe 175 or 180 in gear. The only mod left to do is try a different bend handlebar, probably an "ATV High" bend based on my reading. I think the stock ones sweep back a little too much.

BTW, I might be good for Saturday the 9th too. Depends on when my Dad and his wife leave and they tend to leave very early (before 8am). Wife tells me she has nothing planned for my birthday, so if the weather is good, I might as well ride.

[cb400]

I just brought home a wee this weekend myself. Could use a ride to see what she's like....


--jeff  

[SWriverstone]

Hey Jeff---congrats on the new bike!   Maybe you could join Garry and I for a ride this weekend. Holly might want to join us too on her new ST3! She picks it up Saturday.

I might ride the KLR, so we can see how badly the 650 V-twin whips the 650 single!   (Until we go offroad, that is, LOL.)

Scott

[forester]

The DL is just slightly quicker than the KLR.  Off road, of course it is no competition.  There is no substitution for less weight and more ground clearance once you get off of the road...

I hope you get a chance to ride both models (650 &1000).  Please report your personal take after doing so.  

It ought to be fairly enlightening to compare the dry weights and h.p. numbers to the real world experience of how they feel when you're riding them.

[SWriverstone]

Will do Forester!   I've got a couple folks with 650s I can ride...now I just need to find a 1000!

Scott

[cb400]

I might be able to attend this weekend.

 No off road for me tho,  I've got Road Attacks mounted.

--jeff  

[sagerat]

Buy both and sell the one you have ridden the least after a year.  See, it's simple.  

[SWriverstone]

LOL---that's an excellent idea sagerat!   Alas...if I only had the cash...

Scott

[SWriverstone]

Okay...my thoughts are becoming more focused on this whole 650/1000 thing...

As everyone knows, I have a KLR. I'm actually pretty happy with the KLR most of the time. The only time I'm NOT happy with the KLR is on the interstate. In 5th gear at 5-6K rpms going 75mph, the KLR is just too revvy/whiny/buzzy and vibrates like crazy...and it has ZERO passing power at those speeds.

Now I try not to ride interstates often, but it's fact of life that we all spend time on the slab.

So basically, I guess my fear (which I need to address and have others address) is that if I buy a DL650, it's characteristics will be too close to the KLR.

So I'd really love to hear from people who either own both, or have ridden the DL650 and a KLR. (And yes, I know I can ride your DL650 Garry and Jeff, which I plan to do!) Because if the DL650 even feels close to the KLR---generally speaking---I'm not going to be happy with it (because I can just ride the KLR!)

But if the DL650 blows the KLR away (or at least is significantly faster, more powerful, smoother, etc.), then that's the bike for me.

So in conclusion, it's not that I have to have the power/speed of a DL1000...I just want there to be enough of a "perceived performance margin" between the KLR and whatever bike I get for me to feel the new bike is justified! (That's certainly the case now with my VFR!)

Scott

[Mr Sunshine]

The DL650 will be able to do 110+mph...so it won't have the same problem as the KLR.