Sport-Touring.Net

The Tech Zone => Mods & Maintenance => Topic started by: Blue is Best on July 30, 2019, 10:07:51 am



Title: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on July 30, 2019, 10:07:51 am
My bike has begun to run rich. Gas mileage around town and running errands is way down. Running on the road, cruising at travel speed(75 mph +) is OK but down about 5%. The last big run I took it on a couple of months ago was an eye opener. At 10,000 feet elevation the thing blubbered!! Not good. But I still got good hwy mpg.

I think it is the oxygen(O2) sensor. No code on the instrument panel but the sensors can get "slow" or inaccurate before they die. That condition would not trigger a code. I think mine is at the point getting ready to die.

Odd because I don't hear of FJRs going through these sensors. The bad news is Mr. Yamaha wants WAY too much money for a sensor. Heck, car sensors can be had for pocket change but not Yamaha!!


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: SLK50 on July 30, 2019, 11:56:11 am
Have you checked the air filter?


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on July 30, 2019, 12:24:31 pm

Have you checked the air filter?


Oh yeah. First thing is to always check simple things first.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: jay547 on July 30, 2019, 01:16:17 pm
Rider error?   :p


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: greench440 on July 30, 2019, 01:42:54 pm
Are you using a Power Commander?  if so, are you using it in Open loop (disconnected o2 sensor).

If you're not, your gas mileage should go up as you go up in altitude.  the FI system sensors should dial back the amount of fuel because there are fewer O2 atoms in a given volume.  

I'd check the o2 sensor first.

Chances are the sensor is probably used in a multitude of other motor cycles and cars.  See if you can find a part number interchange.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on July 30, 2019, 02:20:12 pm

Rider error?   :p


I got you on my list now.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on July 30, 2019, 02:21:30 pm

Are you using a Power Commander?  if so, are you using it in Open loop (disconnected o2 sensor).

If you're not, your gas mileage should go up as you go up in altitude.  the FI system sensors should dial back the amount of fuel because there are fewer O2 atoms in a given volume.  

I'd check the o2 sensor first.

Chances are the sensor is probably used in a multitude of other motor cycles and cars.  See if you can find a part number interchange.


No power commander.


As I posted originally, I believe it to be the sensor.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on July 30, 2019, 02:31:55 pm
My current issue is trying to find a sensor that is interchangeable with the Yamaha sensor. Yamaha wants over $200  :facepalm:  for a sensor that is made by Denso. There has to be a sensor out there that costs the going rate of $40 to $60.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: greench440 on July 30, 2019, 02:52:00 pm
http://densoautoparts.com/find-my-part.aspx


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on July 30, 2019, 08:42:36 pm

http://densoautoparts.com/find-my-part.aspx


I've tried that site. I even talked to a Denso guy and he tried the Yamaha part number and he tried the Denso number stamped on the sensor I pulled off the bike no luck. I think Yamaha signed some deal with Denso to make them but not sell them.       :shrug:


I'm trying to determine if a Bosch(the inventor of oxygen sensors in the 70s) number will convert.        :(        I just don't want to pay over $200 for a $50 part!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: HanksXXX on July 30, 2019, 08:51:37 pm
Honda Blackbirds run rich and have fuel mileage problems when their Fuel Pressure Regulator shits the bed.
No knowledge of FJR's but its a thought.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on July 31, 2019, 10:04:41 am

Honda Blackbirds run rich and have fuel mileage problems when their Fuel Pressure Regulator shits the bed.
No knowledge of FJR's but its a thought.


That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that. I will do some checking on the regulator in the system.      :thumbsup:


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: greench440 on July 31, 2019, 10:14:34 am
Have you tried FJRForum.com?


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on August 04, 2019, 09:59:54 pm
Green- Thanks for the website. After some reading, it appears that the FJR1300's O2 sensor doesn't come into play until after 2,000 or more RPM and when fully warmed up. At startup the bike runs on a different map. At low RPMs is where I am experiencing the terrible richness. Must be some other sensor that is not within proper specs but not completely inoperable so no code. I will keep reading/studying before I start buying things.

 


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on August 26, 2019, 02:07:35 pm
Been riding the bike and letting the Bandit 1250 have a rest. When I went up to Creede, CO it got 51.4 mpg and on the way back 54.6 mpg.    :headscratch:      I have ruled out the O2 sensor. It is something related to the "bottom end" of the rpm range fueling.

Green's idea of the other FJR forum is one that I think I will try. I'll sign up and post something other there about this problem and one of the gurus can push me in the right direction.



Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Bounce on August 27, 2019, 10:19:48 am
When was the last time you did a throttle body synch and checked for air/vacuum leaks? Clogged air filter? Changed an intake or an exhaust without remapping it?


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on August 27, 2019, 02:43:21 pm

When was the last time you did a throttle body synch and checked for air/vacuum leaks? Clogged air filter? Changed an intake or an exhaust without remapping it?


Good questions.


TB synch- Never      :facepalm:  Not to my credit for sure. But, that wouldn't cause the problem I have.

Vacuum leaks- I am going to do that in the next few days along with some other ideas I have. BTW, vacuum leak would make it run leaner!!

Air filter- Checked it before last ride. Didn't need to but ordered a new one anyway.

Exh/intake change- On my new 2005 FJR I modified the air box and installed the same Muzzy 4-1 exhaust that is on the 2012 that has begun giving me the rich bottom end problem. I modified the airbox as on the 2005. The intake and exhaust changes to BOTH bikes caused me to loose 1-2 mpg. They still ran fine and got 50+ mpg. No need for an ECU reprogram or other black magic box.

As I posted in other places, a couple years ago when the 2012 was running like it should I drag raced my best riding buddy, Steve, on his newer generation 2013 FJR1300. From a 2nd gear roll on at about 4,000 rpms he jumped me a couple lengths and as the rpms came up I caught him as we shifted to 3rd and then I left him for dead. He was astounded at the HP of my older generation FJR from the mods.


Something has gone South or some wire is jacked up to make my bike run rich on the bottom but OK when I'm cruising. I call 50+ mpg now OK.





Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Baz on August 29, 2019, 06:11:26 pm
I just had to replace the cylinder head on my 2006. I had a disastrous event occur on a valve check. To make a long story short, a improper installation of the valve cover gasket caused the gasket to get wrapped up in the timing chain, causing it to skip and well lets just say I ended up with 16 bent valves.

So on removal of the head I found two cylinders that had been burning rich (heavier carbon build up on the two in question. (I am running a PC III on mine.) The problem never relayed to the bike running rough, and I always sync the throttle bodies when I have it apart.

I located a used head in Pennsylvania with 18,000 miles on it. (My FJR has about 80,000 km or 50,000 miles on it). Oddly enough the used head  I received had the same carbon buildup on two cylinders (although different ones).

This issue never did present itself as making the bike run poorly or did it show up on any plug inspections, nor did I ever notice any black buildup on the exhaust pipes.  I also have run mine at high altitudes.

All I can point my issue to is throttle bodies out of sync.


Oh, by the way, r&r the engine from an fjr is best left to those with excellent puzzle solving skills, and small Japanese hands.

This little mess cost me around 400 bucks in parts, and about 6 weeks of riding season (which is a good deal of riding season here!)

Note Cylinder 1&4 have heavier carbon build up in exhaust ports.

(https://www.sport-touring.net/forums/gallery/10/886_29_08_19_6_28_55.jpeg)


 


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on August 29, 2019, 06:48:25 pm
WOW! Too bad. Sorry to hear about that.           :(


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Baz on August 30, 2019, 09:00:24 pm
The more I think about your issue, I would think C02 sensor.

I cant believe a stock FJR can run rich! (Hence why I bought the PC III)


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on August 30, 2019, 09:29:58 pm

The more I think about your issue, I would think C02 sensor.

I cant believe a stock FJR can run rich! (Hence why I bought the PC III)

It's a little confusing to me. If you read from the beginning of this post you will see that I really don't think it is the O2 sensor. After the bike is on the road it does change AFR at different elevations and gets really good mileage at these different elevastions so the O2 senser is doing its job.

I believe it is something that is effecting low rpm range fueling. A bad coolant sensor that sends a signal to the ecu that the bike is cold which would make the ecu richen things up. Something to that effect anyway. I really need to take all the plastic off and find the sensors for a check on wiring/connections and so forth.  There are no codes in the dash.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Baz on August 31, 2019, 01:55:58 pm
My apologies, I did not review your prior comments.

I believe you are on the right path.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on September 06, 2019, 10:56:23 pm

Have you tried FJRForum.com?


I've been trying to sign up but I chalk my unsuccessfulness to this new technology.               :shrug:


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Bounce on September 07, 2019, 10:26:28 am

I've been trying to sign up but I chalk my unsuccessfulness to this new technology.               :shrug:


New (cloud-based) forum just went on line this week. Go to httpS :// fjrforum. com (without the S it goes to the old, dead location).


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on September 07, 2019, 06:32:36 pm



New (cloud-based) forum just went on line this week. Go to httpS :// fjrforum. com (without the S it goes to the old, dead location).


Thanks. In the next day or so I will try. Maybe one of the wizards can help me on the FJR!


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on September 29, 2019, 09:23:52 am
Put a low mileage 2015 exhaust O2 sensor on my bike yesterday. The change did very little. The bike runs slightly better which can be attributed to the wear difference. Still scotching head on current problem.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: SLK50 on September 29, 2019, 10:18:54 am

Put a low mileage 2015 exhaust O2 sensor on my bike yesterday. The change did very little. The bike runs slightly better which can be attributed to the wear difference. Still scotching head on current problem.


Although I fully appreciate the benefits, “scotching” may not be the best approach.  :snork:


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on September 29, 2019, 02:56:24 pm



Although I fully appreciate the benefits, “scotching” may not be the best approach.  :snork:


Good catch!!!! I "usually" double check my work. Should have been scratching.  I'm a bad enough shade tree mechanic if I chose the other way I'd be in real trouble.


Title: Re: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: HotPursuit on November 25, 2019, 09:21:02 pm
Honda Blackbirds run rich and have fuel mileage problems when their Fuel Pressure Regulator shits the bed.
No knowledge of FJR's but its a thought.
My VFR had this same issue when bought it, and replacing the fuel pressure regulator did the trick.  The diagphragm in the old regulator tore, dumping fuel into non-firing cylinders.  Still Honda, but the issue sounds very similar.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Bounce on November 26, 2019, 09:08:42 am
The only time I've heard of any fueling issues has been either a plugged line or a blocked air filter. I got it once by over-oiling my Uni-filter.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on December 18, 2019, 05:35:53 pm
I haven't ridden either bike in two months. I think that is the longest non riding stretch for me in more than twenty years.       :facepalm:


Which side is the clutch on? Left I think.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: 02Tac on December 21, 2019, 11:33:47 am
Did you ever get to pull the plastics and inspect the various sensors? It sounds like a coolant or air temp sensor may be the culprit. Especially if it was a sudden change. A service manual should give you the correct resistance of the sensor when cold and hot.  If you cannot find a SM, I may be able to get the temp / resistance values for you.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on December 22, 2019, 09:04:22 am

Did you ever get to pull the plastics and inspect the various sensors? It sounds like a coolant or air temp sensor may be the culprit. Especially if it was a sudden change. A service manual should give you the correct resistance of the sensor when cold and hot.  If you cannot find a SM, I may be able to get the temp / resistance values for you.



To be honest there is a reason I haven't ridden in two months, I been busy!  

I have:

 - Checked plugs. They look good.      :eek:               :facepalm:
 - Changed O2 sensor. No real change.
 - Checked for vacuum leaks(which really should make bike run lean) OK, no leaks.
 - Checked for any codes on instrument panel. Only two were from years ago. Crankshaft position sensor which I believe was from when I adjusted valves. Removed side cover and looked and  
    everything was fine. Then, one code from when I put my foot down with no ground there. Tipover code. I removed all codes and took it for a 50 mile spin. Came back and no more codes.
 - Cleaned air filter.
 - Checked a couple of sensors. Look good. Clean connections. Have not checked actual ohm readings and such.
 - Looked over everything seeable and all looks good.
 - I am going to pull gas tank and remove fuel pump and check that.


Years ago I filled up my gas tank, when I was on the road, with about five gallons of E85. Which means anywhere from 50% to 80% ethanol. I realized immediately that I goofed big time. I babied the bike for 100 miles and refilled with good stuff. I babied it another 100 miles and repeat until the bike was OK. I am not at all worried about mechanical damage but I wonder if the ethanol swelled some seals in the FI, or other, that is allowing excess gas to squeak by which would account for my richness now.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: jay547 on December 22, 2019, 10:41:11 am

I haven't ridden either bike in two months. I think that is the longest non riding stretch for me in more than twenty years.       :facepalm:



You just dropped a notch in my book.  :o


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on December 22, 2019, 04:37:49 pm
 



You just dropped a notch in my book.  :o


 :newcry:


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on March 21, 2020, 07:24:34 am
My Bandit 1250 runs great and I set it up for my upcoming vacation.

So, I finally got off my can and started work on my beloved FJR! Checked the water lines thinking that the small 1/4"(?) coolant lines running under the FI may have something to with cold start-up and being clogged, or other, causing the rich condition after warm-up. Not that, everything is clean as a whistle and clear as a bell. Checked spark plugs and they look great. Everything seeable looks good. The work done yesterday along with the other checking I've done really has me scratching my head.

I ordered a new carb synchronizer and will check that next week. I don't think that is the problem but it is time for that service anyway.  I will probably check the valves. It is time but I don't think that is the problem either but it is time for that anyway.

When I put everything back together and it if it still runs rich it will be time for Mr. Yamaha to have a look. I sure hope they have a diagnostic tool that can access the electronic gadgets that I can't. The problem has to be some little electronic diode somewhere that has gone on the fritz.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on April 20, 2020, 02:08:37 pm
Well...……….got off my can again.              :facepalm:              You won't believe what I found! Remember the old days when we tuned up our cars? Without fuel injection? If the choke hung up when warm the motor would blubber. Then we would rev it a bit and maybe the choke arm would come unstuck or other. That is what the FJR has acted like. At freeway cruising speed the response has been down a bit but MPG has been near what it should be. Then at idle the bike would not idle real smooth but upon a little rev the bike would seem to run like it should. :headscratch:  I really thought the bike was rich and have focused my efforts on that. Nothing.

I wrote that the plugs looked good. Actually they look real good.  :headscratch:   I also wrote that the problem has to be something simple. So I went to put them back in and BINGO!!!!!!! The number four plug cap was jacked up! The spark plug wire from the coil "screws" into the long spark plug cap that goes down into the head to the plug. The plug wire was "warbled out" and was very loose on the spark plug. I cut off 3/8" of the spark plug wire reinserted it into the plug cap and screwed it tight. The loose connection was causing the #4 cylinder to have a slight miss at idle which made the bike run like it was a 3 1/2 cylinder bike. When revving the engine the increase in electrical output would cause a better connect at the plug and mask what was happening.


                                :bigok:


I checked the FI synchronization it is within spec. Not prefect but darn close!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: 02Tac on April 20, 2020, 05:03:13 pm
Glad you got it sorted.


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on April 20, 2020, 11:39:42 pm

Glad you got it sorted.



             :thumbsup:


Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Baz on August 20, 2020, 12:09:26 pm
Thanks for posting, I will have to check this out. Have the same issue with my FJR & its driving me crazy.



Title: Re: 2012 FJR1300A is running rich
Post by: Blue is Best on August 20, 2020, 03:05:49 pm

Thanks for posting, I will have to check this out. Have the same issue with my FJR & its driving me crazy.




Yeah, check it out. The long plug caps have a brass(?) screw affair that the plug wire screws into. There is a reason that Yamaha says to never pull on the plug wire to get the long plug cap off the plug. Look at all the plug caps and you may have one that is loose.


SimplePortal 2.3.1 © 2008-2009, SimplePortal