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Global Positioning => Europe & U.K. => Topic started by: Global Rider on November 28, 2006, 07:08:52 pm



Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on November 28, 2006, 07:08:52 pm
Updated: July 06, 2013

Alps Motorcycle Tours, Priced Right.
 
For those that think the only way to go, is on an organized motorcycle tour, no need to stop by; move right along.
 
But this is for those that would love to go after reading all those tour reports on web sites or in the magazines, but have a heart attack the minute they see what those tours cost. Almost six thousand dollars for two weeks plus airfare and extras not covered would give me a heart attack as well. If you think that is reasonable, like I said, move right along.
 
What if I told you it can be done for anywhere between a third to half the cost, and the latter would be splurging? Of course, you will always get arguments from those that say the tour is not on the same level with respect to accomodations and meals. Maybe, but I have never been uncomfortable and I am damn picky about where I stay, and I like my food and drink. Besides, I am there to ride and to enjoy the roads, scenery, food and drink and mingle with the natives. If my room does not have satellite TV or if the hotel does not have a hot tub, it certainly does not take away from the riding experience.
 
So lets get started.

First, currency rates change by the minute, so you are best off using the Universal Currency Converter (http://www.xe.com/ucc) for up to date rates.
 
Airfare is always extra, be it on a self-guided tour or on an organized tour. It costs what it costs which varies a bit with the time of year and the location you are flying from.

Motorcycle rental is best secured from a rental company and not from a tour operator as tour operators do not own their own bikes and use a rental company just as you would, with the exception of tacking on their extra fee; money out of your pocket.
 
The insurance deposit of up to US$3000 is required either way you go; self-guided or organized. Some rental companies give you the option of additional coverage for an extra fee. The deposit is refunded upon return of an undamaged motorcycle.
 
I would look for a rental company that includes unlimited mileage. Some have two options, for example 200 km per day or 2500 km per week at one rate and unlimited mileage at another rate. Keep in mind, a 250 to 350 kilometer day is a standard day on the backroads of the Alps; 400 kilometers and above makes for a very long day. Remember, most riders stop for photos ops and chats with other riders atop the passes.
 
Gas is not covered by any organized tour operator, so you are paying either way you go. The cost per liter varies from country to country and generally costs more on the autobahns and autostradas, then in towns and back roads. In June of 2013, gas per liter ran me between €1.564 for Super 100 in Austria to €2.104 for Super 100 in Italy. Super 95 is the lowest grade available and most stations have phased it out in favor of Super Plus 98. Up to 102 grade gas is available.
 
Accomodations based on what I have paid over the years ranged from €17 to €54 per night with a breakfast that in most cases can hold you over till dinner. The rates vary depending on the region. Austria is generally the cheapest with Süd Tirol (the Dolomites) usually between €25 and €40. With dinner, rates will hover around €50. I have stayed in some pretty fancy modern hotels, you know the type, with automatic sliding glass doors as you enter where I am saying, OMG, this is going to be expensive, only to find out the room rate is €35 with a big breakfast. France and Switzerland tends to be a bit more expensive. Except during the transition to the Euro where businesses took advantage of the consumer, I haven't found room rates to change all that much since I first went over in 1995.
 
If your room rate does not include dinner and normally it does not unless you choose that option (halb pension), dinner with usually run above €10 (pizza and a beer), obviously more if you choose to go all out, but I have found that I can get by very well on under €20 (Wiener schnitzel with potatoes/vegetables, a couple of beers and dessert).
 
So lets crunch some numbers and take a two week tour. The costs are based on a solo rider riding a BMW R1200 GS, staying in a private room with private washroom including breakfast and dinner.
 
One organized tour company prices their 2 week tour which includes: 14 night accomodation (13 riding days), all breakfasts and some dinners. Cost: US$7960 based on a solo rider on an R1200 GS in a private room.
 
So what can you do that for?
 
14 nights at €50/night: BTW, I chose to go high for those who say you cannot find anything at €40. That rate almost always includes dinner as well as the usual breakfast.
 
2 weeks motorcycle rental from Allround Motorradvermietung (http://www.motorradvermietung.de/en/) in Frankfurt on a R1200 GS: €1540 includes 5000 kilometers.
 
OK, so what are we up to? Based on a 1.28 (Jul '13) exchange rate: US$2868, a far cry from US$7960. So you want to live it up, tack on another €20 per night or US$358 for 2 weeks. You are still a long way under the half cost scenario. Oh, there will be other minor expenses such as transportation between the airport and the rental company, a few maps, but that is about it.
 
To summarize, you can go on an all-inclusive self-guided Alps tour (airfare, gas and all imaginable extras) for far less than the cost of an organized tour. Still dreaming? Move right along...and head on over.
 
Where To Stay - Motorcycle Friendly Accomodations
 
Here is a listing of motorcycle friendly accomodations.
 
Tourenfahrer Partnerhaus (http://www.tourenfahrer-hotels.de/)
 
Motorrad Freizeit Hotelführer für Motorradfahrer (http://motorradfreizeit.de/hotelfuehrer.html) Motorrad Freizeit Hotel Guide for Motorcyclists.
 
Biker Hotel Guide (http://www.motorradhotelguide.de) There are hundreds to choose from, so I think anybody that is going is well set.
 
By the way, Tourenfahrer (http://www.tourenfahrer.de/) and Motorrad Freizeit (http://motorradfreizeit.de/) are German motorcycle magazines similar to RoadRUNNER (http://www.rrmotorcycling.com) in the US.


Title: Euro & Alps Maps List
Post by: Global Rider on November 28, 2006, 07:13:25 pm
Updated: March 04, 2014

Time for a one-stop listing of maps, but first, a bit of background on what to look for in maps.
 
Feel free to add your suggestions...with links to the maps if possible.
 
Scale:
For overall planning over greater distances, scales of 1:300 000 to 1:1 000 000 work well. Which end of that scale you pick will depend on how much detail you are looking for.
 
For localized touring and meandering, scales of 1:250 000 or better are the ones to go with. How much detail you are looking for will then depend on how many maps you want to pack. I find 1:200 000 ideal. For some areas where I explore, I'll use 1:50 000, but they cover quite small areas and you would need to pack a couple of suitcases to cover all of Europe.
 
Features:
Different map producers have different looks to their maps and that is a matter of personal preference. I prefer the Freytag & Berndt (http://www.freytagberndt.at/rtc-freytagberndt) series of maps. They also make the highly detailed hiking/bicycling maps that I use. Michelin maps are my second choice.
 
So which maps?
 
For motorcycle route suggestions, the ADAC has a series of FREE maps that you can download. Read on...
 
Free downloads of the ADAC Motorradtouren map sets (https://www.adac.de/reise_freizeit/motorrad/tourenkarten/default.aspx?ComponentId=40672&SourcePageId=233216).
 
The ADAC Motorradtouren maps aren't meant to replace highly detailed road maps, but are meant to provide tour suggestions.
 
The maps are also available at ADAC offices in Germany. The ADAC is the German auto club similar to the CAA in Canada, the AAA in the US and the AA or RAC in the UK.
 
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These Freytag & Berndt series of maps for motorcyclists have a scale of 1:200 000 (just right for motorcycle touring), are plastic coated and come in a binder so that each can be removed for tank bag use. You'll be impressed with the detail and quality. Each map binder costs €29.95.
 
Freytag & Berndt Motorradatlas Süddeutschland-Westösterreich-Oberitalien (http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/Maps/Map-Covers/Freytag/i-FnzmGC4/1/O/Freytag%20%26%20Berndt%20Sueddeutschland%20-%20Westoesterreich%20-%20Oberitalien.jpg): Southern Germany-Western Austria-Upper Italy. Detailed info (http://www.freytagberndt.at/rtc-freytagberndt/de_DE/805/DETAIL/8366561/center/1/motorradatlas_0asueddeutschland_westoesterreich_oberitalien.html) on the Freytag & Berndt site.

Freytag & Berndt Motorrad Guide Österreich - Die 50 schönsten Touren (http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/Maps/Map-Covers/Freytag/i-n4B5cWX/0/O/F%26B%20Motorrad%20Guide%20Osterreich.gif):Motorcycle Guide Austria - The 50 nicest tours. Detailed info (http://www.freytagberndt.at/rtc-freytagberndt/de_DE/805/DETAIL/8366565/center/1/oesterreich_motorad_guide.html) on the Freytag & Berndt site.

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Motorrad Reisekarten (http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/Maps/Map-Covers) are similar to the F&B maps in the binders, except at a scale of 1:300 000, they lack a bit in detail. They're available from Louis and Polo.
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Motorrad Powerkarten (http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/Maps/Map-Covers) are boxed map sets for various regions at a scale of 1:250 000. They're available from Louis and Polo.

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Die MOTORRAD General Karte (http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/Maps/Map-Covers) are a series of 20 maps of Germany at a scale of 1:200 000. Of particular interest to Alps riders will be maps 18, 19 and 20 along the Austrian-German border. Recently introduced are a series of 5 maps of Austria including Süd Tirol (South Tirol) (http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/Maps/Map-Covers) 5 maps of Austria including Süd Tirol (South Tirol) at a scale of 1:200 000. Included are listings of camping sites, accomodations, motorcycle shops listed by make, etc. They are coated and resistant to rain and tearing. Available at motorcycle shops in Europe.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
MOTORRAD Tourenplaner (http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/Maps/Map-Covers) is a map set on CD similar to Microsoft Streets & Trips, but specifically for motorcycling in Europe. It plans routes, shows where services are, is GPS compatable, etc. The current product goes for €39.95, but last years version goes for €9.95 in motorcycle shops such as LOUIS (where I buy my copy).
 
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Hein Gericke (http://www.hein-gericke-store.com/wShop/home/inhalt/index.php), Louis (http://www.louis.de) and Polo (http://www.polo-motorrad.de) are a chain of motorcycle accessory stores, primarily in Germany, but also in some neighboring countries.


Title: Some good stuff here
Post by: Ralf on November 29, 2006, 07:33:54 am
Alex has obviously put a lot of heart into this topic and provided much useful information.
 
On a general note, I could not imagine riding on a guided tour. I enjoy dealing with different languages, cultures, and the unexpected, and typically decide which roads to take on the spot. However, I think it's also important to point out that the Alps are pretty user-friendly. Many people speak English and the infrastructure is normally very good. Furthermore, motorcyclists do not have any stigma attached to them, but are seen as everyday people (and are wooed by hotels, etc. as they view them as very generous guests).
 
Random thoughts to your post:
 
1) I like the Michelin maps
2) Don't forget to consider the costs of Maut/Pickerl (road and pass tolls, the latter which are being increasingly prwwEvalent) which can add up over time
3) The Julian Alps in Slovenia seem to get overlooked a lot, but which belong to my favorite (perhaps I should keep my mouth shut)
4) It's truly a shame that all the previous wealth of information on this site was lost


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ketch on November 29, 2006, 08:22:40 am
Great information as I have a dream of Doing a motorcyle tour over in that area and the price of admission is so high through the tours.
 
Do you know if there are any roadside assistance plans available? Perhaps through the Rental companies.  Could get interesting if you breakdown.


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on November 29, 2006, 09:01:38 am
Quote from: "Ketch;2526"
Do you know if there are any roadside assistance plans available? Perhaps through the Rental companies. Could get interesting if you breakdown.

 
Dave, don't worry about it.
 
My first ten years riding there, I used an old 1980 BMW R65 between its 15th and 24th year...and I only had one very preventable breakdown. The original rear wheel bearings went during their 21st year.
 
That happened late in the afternoon. By ten the next morning, I was riding again. The folks in this small Italian town were that helpful. By the time I got out of the shower, my bike was gone and on its way to a Honda shop in Domodosolla in the back of a truck. BTW, most of the SS337 from Locarno to Domodosolla was incredible.
 
And if you think language is an issue, I only knew about five words of Italian back then.
 
I know that Knopf Motorradreisen (http://www.knopftours.com) used to and probably still does, hand out a cell phone to its customers for emergency use. Knopf also has good rental rates and they are located in Heidelberg, an easy run down the A5 from Frankfurt...and the major airport there. Continuing down the A5 past Heidelberg takes you into Switzerland.


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on November 29, 2006, 09:03:49 am
Yes, the rates of the tourguides are definately over the top. Being local, I of course don't have to rent or fly, but I spend something south of $1000 for 7 days of playing in total when I go. That's less than $1000 for a week of extreme fun including hotels, food, drink, gas, my smokes, everything. By myself, it is typically in the area of 600. Add to that rental and flights and you end up significantly cheaper than any tour operator.

And if you are in an area like the Dolomites, you can't even go wrong even if you don't know where you are going. Every road is great and extremely twistie and will end up at one of the passes.


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on November 29, 2006, 09:20:38 am
Quote from: Ralf;2479
Random thoughts to your post:
 
Don't forget to consider the costs of Maut/Pickerl (road and pass tolls, the latter which are being increasingly prwwEvalent) which can add up over time.
 
The Julian Alps in Slovenia seem to get overlooked a lot, but which belong to my favorite (perhaps I should keep my mouth shut).

Ralf, too late! I planned on heading to Slovenia last summer, but got wrapped up with Corsica instead. Since I'm always within a half days ride of the border, I plan to ride Slovenia and possibly Croatia next summer.
 
The tolls, although some passes have just implemented them recently, are well worth the experience. Having riden every Dolomite pass several times, I've bypassed them the last few years while enroute to the Lago di Garda area. So I guess I'll be in for a bit of a surprise.


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ralf on November 29, 2006, 10:05:27 am
Quote from: Global Rider;2591
Ralf, too late! I planned on heading to Slovenia last summer, but got wrapped up with Corsica instead. Since I'm always within a half days ride of the border, I plan to ride Slovenia and possibly Croatia next summer.
 
The tolls, although some passes have just implemented them recently, are well worth the experience. Having riden every Dolomite pass several times, I've bypassed them the last few years while enroute to the Lago di Garda area. So I guess I'll be in for a bit of a surprise.

I hope the toll revenue will be ploughed back into the infrastructure and not used elsewhere. It's, of course, still worth it to ride the passes, but, especially when thinking back to earlier, it's somewhat depressing to now have to pay fees. I haven't been to the Dolos in a while anyway though, as it's almost become too crowded during the high season, especially on the weekends (not to mention family and job commitments, but that's another story...). And there are a lot of other roads out there too ;)


Title: Anyone interested in shipping?
Post by: Aero on November 29, 2006, 04:17:24 pm
This has revived an idea that I had a while ago. To save the hassle and expense of renting a bike, why not ship a bunch of bikes in a shipping container and use them for a tour? If a group of riders could agree on some dates I think this could be very cost effective. I want to do a European trip next year so if any others are interested I will gladly investigate rates etc. It would be good to have an idea of numbers because I imagine the rates are cheaper if the numbers are greater.


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Chumly on November 29, 2006, 04:37:22 pm
Quote from: Aero;3240
This has revived an idea that I had a while ago. To save the hassle and expense of renting a bike, why not ship a bunch of bikes in a shipping container and use them for a tour? If a group of riders could agree on some dates I think this could be very cost effective. I want to do a European trip next year so if any others are interested I will gladly investigate rates etc. It would be good to have an idea of numbers because I imagine the rates are cheaper if the numbers are greater.
I'm very interested as would be my wife, I ride the '04 VFR and she rides the '04 Burgman.


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mr Sunshine on November 29, 2006, 04:59:04 pm
Eventually I want to take me and my wife to Europe for a motorcycle tour.  Doing it on our own would be grand as like some I like to experience the culture and what not without help from others who don't know from Dick or Jane.
 
Besides its an excuse to learn more German. :)


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mr Sunshine on November 29, 2006, 05:05:18 pm
Quote from: Aero;3240
This has revived an idea that I had a while ago. To save the hassle and expense of renting a bike, why not ship a bunch of bikes in a shipping container and use them for a tour? If a group of riders could agree on some dates I think this could be very cost effective. I want to do a European trip next year so if any others are interested I will gladly investigate rates etc. It would be good to have an idea of numbers because I imagine the rates are cheaper if the numbers are greater.

 
Please do.


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: DNA on November 29, 2006, 05:14:52 pm
Thanks for the great info - yet another sleepless night ahead I think....
I really would like to do this some day - but will have to put this off for a bit I htink.


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on November 29, 2006, 06:54:47 pm
Quote from: "Aero;3240"
This has revived an idea that I had a while ago. To save the hassle and expense of renting a bike, why not ship a bunch of bikes in a shipping container and use them for a tour?

 
Updated: July 06, 2013

Thats a great idea. You'll have to compare costs and do a break-even calculation to see if it is worth it.
 
For example, in 2007 you could rent an R1200 GS for (left for comparison purposes):
1 week (€679)
2 weeks (€1238)
3 weeks (€1797)
4 weeks (€2356)

For example, in 2013 you can rent an R1200 GS for:
1 week (€810)
2 weeks (€1540)
3 weeks (€2270)
4 weeks (€3000)

Use the Universal Currency Converter (http://www.xe.com/ucc) to figure out the amount in your currency.
 
I used Allround Motorradvermietung's rental rates (http://www.motorradvermietung.de/en/rates/) for the above example. I've never used them nor have I had any experience with them.
 
By the way, you might want to check with Knopf Motorradreisen (http://www.knopftours.com). He ships bikes over in a container on a regular basis.
 
You all probably already know this, but you are going to want to make sure your brakes are in top condition and that your tires are almost new before shipping your bikes over.
 
Six more months to go. :banana:


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Chumly on November 29, 2006, 07:01:13 pm
Well, whatever the apropos logistics are: rent / ship etc, I know my wife and I would like to go, so perhaps you could please keep me in the loop!


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ketch on November 29, 2006, 10:15:07 pm
I lived in Germany from 1972-1975..
Father was stationed at Spangdahlem, I went to High school in Bitburg.
Went skiing in Austria once, Never made it to Switzerland :nuts: .
Was in Munchen for the some of 72 Olympics.
 
Used to speak/read/write German.. but have forgotten most of it now.
Would really like to get back there before I kick the bucket, and especially on 2 wheels (I had a 90cc Benelli when I lived there)
 
Just can't do much of anything thing till my Son finishes College..$$$
 
Dave


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on November 30, 2006, 01:05:08 am
Quote from: Global Rider;3511
I used Allround Motorradvermietung rates for the above example. I've never used them nor have I had any experience with them.

Simon from Allround Vermieting is a great guy. Very flexible and good discounts when renting multiple bikes. We've used them for our Eur04, Eur05 and Eur06 tours (bunch of friends from the US and EU riding together in the Alps).


Title: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ralf on November 30, 2006, 04:17:16 am
Quote from: Ketch;2526
Great information as I have a dream of Doing a motorcyle tour over in that area and the price of admission is so high through the tours.
 
Do you know if there are any roadside assistance plans available? Perhaps through the Rental companies. Could get interesting if you breakdown.

 
Check with your AAA club. I believe there might be some agreement with them and their German counterpart, the ADAC (Allgemeiner Deutscher Automobilclub or German auto club), and that by showing your card you get the same service. Maybe the AAA has some similar reciprocal agreements with the ÖAMTC (Austrian service club) and other European roadside assistance clubs (i.e. as a member of the ADAC I can get assistance throughout Europe)
 
I would recommend checking with your local AAA office.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: twist on December 20, 2006, 04:35:45 pm

At present, gas costs about €1.20 for regular and about €1.35 for super; more on the autobahns and autostradas. Presently €1 = US$1.25.


That's per litre, right?  That's too cheap to be per gallon.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on December 20, 2006, 06:13:55 pm

That's per litre, right?  That's too cheap to be per gallon.


Correct.

Last June, I was paying anywhere from €1.338 for 95 to €1.522 for Shell V-Power 100...per liter.

So that works out to €5.06 to €5.76 per US gallon or US$6.67 to US$7.59 per US gallon at todays rates.

BTW, don't confuse those octane ratings with ours. They're rated differently.

Whether you go on an organized or self-guided tour, this is what you should be budgeting for when touring overseas. Mind you, that is on the high side. You should be getting by on about €1.35 per liter.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on December 29, 2006, 12:44:07 pm

Yes, the rates of the tourguides are definately over the top. Being local, I of course don't have to rent or fly, but I spend something south of $1000 for 7 days of playing in total when I go. That's less than $1000 for a week of extreme fun including hotels, food, drink, gas, my smokes, everything.


Wow, thats a lot. Considering we both don't have to rent bikes since we use our own, I spend maybe CA$3000 (even less in US$) for the month and that includes airfare from Canada...so, all inclusive.

What are you smoking to bring your costs that high?  :lol:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: bubba zanetti on December 29, 2006, 12:48:29 pm
Great thread. After reading this mrs zanetti and I are thinking of a 3 year plan to put away $150 a month for just such a trip.

I have driven the areas you listed in an old VW Van and Ursula did it on her 200cc Vespa. I think it would be wonderful on any reasonably modern bike.

Thanks !! Ya gots me thinking GR !!  :bigok:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on December 29, 2006, 05:42:05 pm



Wow, thats a lot. Considering we both don't have to rent bikes since we use our own, I spend maybe CA$3000 (even less in US$) for the month and that includes airfare from Canada...so, all inclusive.

What are you smoking to bring your costs that high?  :lol:

I'm Dutch, you really have to ask?  :D

Seriously, I typically stay at probably little more expensive hotels than you do. I am usually with a group of American friends, so we typically need 5 or 6 rooms. This can limit the choice of hotels available. If I travel by myself, I stay in small gasthof or b&b at probably half the rates. But those places sometimes don't even have 6 rooms, let alone 6 free.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on January 01, 2007, 06:49:41 pm
As of 29 Dec. 06, we got €0.73 to the dollar (or about $1.37 per Euro) at a Naspa (ex-Nassauer Sparkasse Bank) in Bad Schwalbach (NW of Wiesbaden).  Regular gas was around €1.15 to €1.20/ltr and premium was about €1.25 and up.  We had an Opel Vectra combi ("stationwagon") and, prior to turning it back in at Frankfurt, topped the tank at an Aral on A66 near Mainz-Kastel at €1.16/ltr.  Often these gas stops cost less than what's charged off the autobahn.  Go figure...  

I just spoke with friends in Switzerland (anybody even heard of Veltheim in the Aargau?) and the Swissies have come with a new fun way to help you remember their autobahn speed limit is 120 km/hr.  Effective today, 1/1/07, your income is factored into the fine.  As an example, get nailed doing 180 (that's a touch over 110 MPH), and you could see a fine as high as 50,000 SFr or, according xe.com, over $41,000 US.  Have a nice day...  


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 01, 2007, 08:17:27 pm

Regular gas was around €1.15 to €1.20/ltr and premium was about €1.25 and up.


Thats quite a bit cheaper than what I paid last summer in Italy, but then gas prices vary from country to country, or maybe the time of the year matters.


The Swissies have come with a new fun way to help you remember their autobahn speed limit is 120 km/hr. Effective today, 1/1/07, your income is factored into the fine.  As an example, get nailed doing 180 (that's a touch over 110 MPH), and you could see a fine as high as 50,000 SFr or, according xe.com, over $41,000 US.


As high as? What about the minimum?

Actually, not a bad idea.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 02, 2007, 07:38:33 am
Actually, not a bad idea.

If it works. In real life, I expect the guy who gets nailed for the top fine can probably afford a top lawyer to get him off.

If I got caught for speeding in Switzerland, I'd probably go straight to jail after I told them I was unemployed. :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on January 04, 2007, 11:49:07 am
I have no idea what the floor is on speeding fines but somehow I don't think it's cheap.  


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Aero on January 06, 2007, 01:22:58 pm

I have no idea what the floor is on speeding fines but somehow I don't think it's cheap.


No, nothing is cheap in Switzerland! :eek:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 06, 2007, 01:37:41 pm
No, nothing is cheap in Switzerland! :eek:


Tour the UK and you'll think Switzerland is a bargain.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 06, 2007, 05:15:36 pm
Tour the UK and you'll think Switzerland is a bargain.

Not in my experience, but it is your thread.  :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 06, 2007, 06:34:45 pm
Not in my experience, but it is your thread.  :)


£80 for a B&B in a town of a few homes in the middle of nowhere is incredibly expensive. If it were on the outskirts of London, I could understand. In comparison, an equivalent B&B in Austria or the Dolomites would be about £20.

Someone posted a tour of Scotland on ADVrider some time ago. The motorcycle rental rates were out of this world compared to other rates I've seen.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Aero on January 06, 2007, 06:47:05 pm

Tour the UK and you'll think Switzerland is a bargain.


Tour the UK?  I used to live there until recently! :lol: I was back for a month recently and got through a ton of money (mainly car rental etc) even though I was able to stay with friends and relatives most of the time. I've not been to Switzerland for a few years now but always found it to be very expensive. Maybe prices in the UK have reached those of Switzerland, I wouldn't be surprised. I did find a nice hotel in Clevedon, south of Bristol for £52 including breakfast though, although this was in November, out of season.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 06, 2007, 08:22:46 pm
... an equivalent B&B in Austria or the Dolomites would be about £20.

I thought we were talking about Switzerland. Yes, £20 is cheap for a place anywhere. And, £80 is expensive for a place in rural England. We won't pay more than £20-25/head for a B&B, which is still more than I'd like, but cheaper than anything we found in Switzerland.

Where was your £80 B&B? The Lake District? If you want to find cheaper, go to a town that has more rooms/competition. But, I shouldn't have to tell you that. You're in the business.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 06, 2007, 08:56:48 pm
I thought we were talking about Switzerland.


The place I've stayed at twice in Andermatt, Switzerland ran me CHF 45...whats that...about £19. About even with most places in Austria and Northern Italy. The cheapest place I've stayed at was in Serfaus, Austria back in 2003 at €17 (now €18) or £11.50. I spent a week there. The breakfast was first rate and they had a new garage as well.

Where was your £80 B&B?


Densole.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 07, 2007, 05:28:28 am
I had to look up Densole, then I looked up Andermatt. Boy, I'll bet Andermatt was a lot more beautiful, too!

My guess is Densole can get away with charging the price because of their proximity to the ferries and the Chunnel. I hope your room was nice, and they didn't serve you those awful Walls sausages for breakfast!

We like to stay in cities for the nightlife. I'm afraid that adds to the expense.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 07, 2007, 10:27:55 am
I had to look up Densole, then I looked up Andermatt. Boy, I'll bet Andermatt was a lot more beautiful, too!


Waking up to one heck of a thunderstorm and heavy rain in Densole (does it ever stop raining in the UK?), I'd have to say...yes.

My guess is Densole can get away with charging the price because of their proximity to the ferries and the Chunnel. I hope your room was nice, and they didn't serve you those awful Walls sausages for breakfast!


Probably. The room was nice although I didn't see much of it. Getting straight off a plane, then clearing your bike through customs, installing the bits and pieces onto the bike and getting gas in an "approved green jerry can" that I had to buy because the one I brought wasn't "approved", before finally heading off for the M25 and M20, wears you out. I remember dozing off on the M20 at times. After dinner at a pub in Folkestone, I went straight to bed...slept like a log. I had to chuckle when that "approved" jerry can leaked from the cap no matter how much I tightened it, yet they wouldn't fill a 4 liter plastic bottle normally used for winshield washer fluid...that didn't leak.  :lol:

Walls sausages? Well I remember breakfast being really greasy while peering through the window looking at rain coming down. Mind you, dinner the evening before wasn't great either.

While waiting at the Euro Tunnel for my letter to come up, I did get to see a slew of old and exotic cars as well as vintage motorcycles. I also got to meet Phil Read.

(http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/802/8timeworldchampionphilread6xp.jpg)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 07, 2007, 06:23:28 pm
(does it ever stop raining in the UK?)

Yes. In fact, until the last couple of months, it pretty much stopped raining for the best part of two years. The southeast has had limited water rationing in effect for quite a while as a result. A better question would be, "Does the sun ever come out?" The answer is, "If you're lucky."

Mind you, our last trip to the Alps in September was a washout. Switzerland, Italy and Austria were awash except for very brief periods. I know we were just unlucky, because I have experienced glorious weather there, too.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 07, 2007, 06:46:10 pm
A better question would be, "Does the sun ever come out?" The answer is, "If you're lucky."


True.  :lol:

Mind you, our last trip to the Alps in September was a washout. Switzerland, Italy and Austria were awash except for very brief periods. I know we were just unlucky, because I have experienced glorious weather there, too.


Thats why I never have anything planned. I go where the sun is, provided of course, all of Europe isn't under cloud. I also prefer to stay on the southern end of the Alps...Bolzano and the Dolomites. The weather within the mountain ranges seems to be unpredicatable. Of course, if you haven't driven all those roads and passes yet, no choice in the matter.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 08, 2007, 04:51:58 am
Thats why I never have anything planned.

That's how it was for me the two years I lived in Edinburgh. When the sun came out, we hopped on the bike. Scotland, when it's sunny, is motorcycle heaven. During the summer, the place is full of German bikers. I just hope they're lucky with the weather.

On the downside, Scotland has fully embraced radar technology in recent times.

Also, on our September trip, I was very impressed with Croatia. I expected the coastal riding to be wonderful and it was. The countryside in the northwest and into Slovenia was a wonderful surprise. Every farm house has a sign "Sobe/Room/Zimmer" and I would expect the rates to be very reasonable. I'll definitley look forward to a return trip to Croatia.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 08, 2007, 11:57:26 am
That's how it was for me the two years I lived in Edinburgh. When the sun came out, we hopped on the bike. Scotland, when it's sunny, is motorcycle heaven. During the summer, the place is full of German bikers. I just hope they're lucky with the weather.


Well I hope to do Wales, Scotland and Ireland (I went to Rockwell College near Cashel) one day, maybe while on my way to Iceland. I believe you can get a ferry there from Scotland. Anywhere close to London is too crowded for my liking.

Also, on our September trip, I was very impressed with Croatia. I expected the coastal riding to be wonderful and it was. The countryside in the northwest and into Slovenia was a wonderful surprise. Every farm house has a sign "Sobe/Room/Zimmer" and I would expect the rates to be very reasonable. I'll definitley look forward to a return trip to Croatia.


I'm  heading to Slovenia and Croatia, this summer. Something a bit different for a change. Where did you stay? Any addresses or links?


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 08, 2007, 02:17:39 pm
I'm  heading to Slovenia and Croatia, this summer. Where did you stay? Any addresses or links?

I use the Rough Guide when I plan a trip. The choices are reasonable, if not always nice, and they have a very helpful (free) website. Sometimes the rooms are great, sometimes not. Sometimes, I get into a town and I'm so tired, I just take the first place I come to that has a vacancy, damn the cost.

However, if you stay in Dubrovnik, this is the place: http://www.restaurant-orhan.com
We stayed there for three nights. £20/pppn. Our room was a minute's walk from the restaurant, which served very nice, if simple, food. My only complaint was noisy tourists passing by late at night, but if you're not a light sleeper, it's perfect. I will stay there again, if we ever go back to Dubrovnik. (There are so many places to see...)

We also stayed in the (Rough Guide) Hotel Venere in Zadar. Sime Ljubica 4a, 023/214-098. It was on the cheaper side, but I can't remember the price. We stayed Sunday night. It was the quietest room of our trip, until the Monday morning rush hour began. Tricky to find, but many Croatians speak English. A 16-year-old kid directed me to the hotel.

We stayed in the (Rough Guide) Hotel Dubrovnik in Zagreb. £100 for the room, in a pedestrian precinct off the main square. It was so nice, we contemplated staying another night, just to soak up the luxury, but came to our senses the next morning. Great buffet breakfast, as you would hope for the price.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on January 08, 2007, 11:19:38 pm
I stayed one night here:

www.drvenik.net

a little village in a secluded cove. It was very tranquil when I was there in early June. I'm sure that's not the case in July & August. I had a room right on the beach. Strolled down to a beachside restaurant that was almost empty and enjoyed a wonderful seafood dinner. The waitress spoke such perfect English, I had to ask her if she had lived abroad. I'm not a huge seafood fan but the seafood in Croatia is excellent. Things like Risotto dyed blue with octopus ink.

My favorite island was Brac. Lots of scenic fishing villages and good motorcycle roads. On the island of Hvar, I came across the scariest tunnel I've ever seen. It was a one lane tunnel, completely unlit. I stopped at the entrance and peered into the blackness and thought,"no fluckin way." I was about to turn around when a car came roaring by and plunged into the tunnel. I figured I'd follow him. Even following a car, it was scary as hell. The tunnel appeared to be carved out by hand with a very uneven road surface. About halfway thru was a pull out for allowing oncoming traffic to pass.  was glad to reach the other end.  :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 09, 2007, 08:07:59 pm
On the island of Hvar, I came across the scariest tunnel I've ever seen.


I noticed that on the map. Are you talking about the long tunnel at the far west side of the island?

FJR-UK and Orson, thanks for the links. Do you remember which places had private garage parking? Orson, that place you stayed at looks great.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on January 09, 2007, 09:48:20 pm


Are you talking about the long tunnel at the far west side of the island?


between Pitve & Zavala on the south coast of Hvar.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 10, 2007, 05:21:28 am
(http://homepage.mac.com/jerrys_ibook/.Pictures/Dubrovnik/14Dubrovnik02.jpg)
You can't drive to the Orhan. You have to carry all your luggage down to the apartments. The nearest place to park was the bus terminal at the Pile Gate. I asked a policeman where I could park and he just gestured to all the scooters that were parked on the pavement. Hundreds of them. So, I stuck my bike next to a bench where you see it above. It sat unmoved and untouched for three nights. The worst thing that happened was a bird dropping on the tank.

The Hotel Dubrovnik let me back down the ramp into their cellar/laundry room. It was yet another occasion when I wished my bike was lighter.

The Venere told me to park in the open, free public lot opposite. Again, the bike was untouched.

I try to find a garage for my bike, but I ended up parking on the street quite a lot on this last trip. I just cross my fingers and make sure my insurance is paid up.

I remember one time in France, Dax was completely booked because of a convention. We were directed to a roadhouse several miles out of town. The woman who received us was concerned about the safety of our motorcycle. She spoke no English, I spoke very little French. I thought she was guiding me around the back of her hotel, but she guided me up the wheelchair ramp to the hotel reception, through the lobby and into her restaurant, which was closed for the season. She put a few newspapers under my bike and there it sat for the night. I've got a photo of her and my wife standing next to it (somewhere) for proof!  :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on January 10, 2007, 10:19:29 am
Er, mostly out of curiosity... you don't put a cover on the bike when it's parked like that (i.e., "long term")?  


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 10, 2007, 11:01:25 am
No. In fact, it has never crossed my mind. I have a cover at home that would take up most of the top box, if I were to carry it. I'd rather use the space for something else.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on January 10, 2007, 01:23:13 pm
Makes sense.  Tnx.   :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Aero on January 10, 2007, 01:44:56 pm


I remember one time in France, Dax was completely booked because of a convention. We were directed to a roadhouse several miles out of town. The woman who received us was concerned about the safety of our motorcycle. She spoke no English, I spoke very little French. I thought she was guiding me around the back of her hotel, but she guided me up the wheelchair ramp to the hotel reception, through the lobby and into her restaurant, which was closed for the season. She put a few newspapers under my bike and there it sat for the night. I've got a photo of her and my wife standing next to it (somewhere) for proof!  :)


That reminds me of when I was in Italy with a friend, I was on my Guzzi Le Mans II and my buddy had his Ducati bevelhead 900ss. We stayed for a few nights at a small family hotel near Lake Maggiore where there was parking space but no cover. After the restaurant had closed for the night we were invited to park the bikes in there overnight. A very refreshing attitude after the Swiss hotel we had stayed at a few days earlier, where we were treated with great suspicion because we hadn't arrived in a gold plated Mercedes Benz. The only time the proprietor got anywhere near being pleasant was when we paid the bill.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on January 10, 2007, 02:33:36 pm
That reminds me of when I was in Italy with a friend …

Ah, now you've got me started...

That reminds me of when I was in Verona. The hotelier insisted that I bring my bike in through the front door of the hotel, into a sort of covered, tiled courtyard before the reception proper. The guy gave us a friendly wave as Jo and I set off sightseeing for the afternoon.

The same guy was very upset when we returned a few hours later. Seems his son had hopped on my bike and I had forgotten to switch off the alarm. The alarm sounded for 20 minutes inside his hotel. We only stayed one night.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Aero on January 10, 2007, 02:56:41 pm

Ah, now you've got me started...

That reminds me of when I was in Verona. The hotelier insisted that I bring my bike in through the front door of the hotel, into a sort of covered, tiled courtyard before the reception proper. The guy gave us a friendly wave as Jo and I set off sightseeing for the afternoon.

The same guy was very upset when we returned a few hours later. Seems his son had hopped on my bike and I had forgotten to switch off the alarm. The alarm sounded for 20 minutes inside his hotel. We only stayed one night.


Oops! :o
OK, another bike-in-hotel story.....

A couple of decades ago I was in Breganze, Italy with a group from the Laverda Owners Club. We were there to visit the factory and do some riding with Massimo Laverda, and most of us were staying at a hotel in town. We were having a beer outside one evening on the terrace by the entrance to the hotel, and one of the UK members got talking to an old guy about bikes. Turned out he had a trials bike at home, and he disappeared for a few minutes, reappeared on this bike and proceeded to give us a demonstration of what it could do. After riding over a few convenient objects in the piazza he rode the bike up the 12 or so steps and through the open door into the bar area, then out and down the steps again! Nobody batted an eyelash, and the old guy handed the bike to Adrian for him to have a go. Seeing the hotel owner smiling from the terrace he figured it was OK, so Adrian duly repeated the trip up the steps, round the bar and down again. The assembled crowd burst into applause, and it occurred to me that in many other countries the police would have turned up by this time. Got to love Italy! :clap:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on January 10, 2007, 06:10:08 pm
Quote from: Aero

You should not anthromorphize machines. They don't like it.  :cool:


[ROFLASTC]!!!!! :lmao:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 10, 2007, 07:58:12 pm
The assembled crowd burst into applause, and it occurred to me that in many other countries the police would have turned up by this time.


Isn't that the truth! Thinking about that instance and others that I come across while in Europe, a lot of the world worries too much about things that are so unimportant.

Got to love Italy! :clap:


I do, and everything about it. Of course, I have an extra special reason for doing so as well :inlove:. I'll probably be retiring there or some other part of Europe. I've been browsing over some real estate web sites just for fun.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Michael J on January 17, 2007, 10:22:24 am
Allround Motorradvermietung


Hi Alex (I followed you here) - have you used these people? The price is VERY low compared to rental agencies closer to the hills, and my perception always has been that if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Thanks


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 17, 2007, 11:38:16 am

Hi Alex (I followed you here) - have you used these people? The price is VERY low compared to rental agencies closer to the hills, and my perception always has been that if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Thanks


No, I haven't but I've read some replies to threads that they were good to deal with. They also speak English.

A Swiss rider on another forum claimed that it was more expensive to rent from them if you take your time and kilometers into account because you need to spend a good portion of a day to get down to the Alps, and then likewise for the return. That may be true for a weeks rental, but its isn't for rentals of two or more weeks.

One rider worked a deal with Allround Motorradvermietung to include unlimited kilometers for a few extra €. Mind you, 2500 kilometers for a week is reasonable.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 27, 2007, 01:31:20 pm
If there is one thing that I've heard time and time again, its someone questioning/doubting the cost of accomodations in Europe. Sure, I can spend $150 a night, but I can also spend $50 a night and live equally in luxury.

This is a place that I've stayed at while in the Dolomites of Northern Italy. I paid €30 for a night with breakfast in 2002. Thats $39 based on the exhange rate at the time of posting.

Hotel Kronblick in Kiens, Northern Italy.
http://www.kronblick.com/de/index.htm

Rooms.
http://www.kronblick.com/de/zimmer-hotel-kronblick-kiens-chienes.htm

The rates in June are €46 to €52 ($59 to $67) for a room that includes breakfast and dinner. Make no mistake, dinner isn't a hamburger with fries on the side. To most of us, it would be considered a gourmet dinner. Likewise for the breakfast buffet.

Price list.
http://www.kronblick.com/de/preise-hotel-kronblick-kiens-chienes.htm

Some are not as nice and some are nicer than others; some are cheaper or more expensive than orthers...but all are a bargain compared to what I've been in on this side of the pond.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Michael J on January 31, 2007, 12:41:20 pm
The place I've stayed at twice in Andermatt, Switzerland ran me CHF 45...


Pray tell, sir - what hotel was that? It's about half of what I usually pay in Andermatt.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on January 31, 2007, 01:41:07 pm
Pray tell, sir - what hotel was that? It's about half of what I usually pay in Andermatt.


Haus Caprino. Its more of a B&B.

It is on the Oberalpstrasse at Oberalpstrasse 39, +41 41 8871549; a few hairpins up from the Hotel Monopol Metropol on your left when heading towards the Oberalppass.

The owners don't speak English...how is your German?


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on January 31, 2007, 10:33:50 pm
German in Switzerland?  More like "Swiss German is a throat disease"...  :lol:

Widerluege!  :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: CDN on February 10, 2007, 09:48:41 am
A wonderfully informative (and perhaps for many, eye-opening) thread guys  :clap:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Michael J on February 11, 2007, 02:42:17 pm
The owners don't speak English...how is your German?


Worse than my French, but good enough to find a room, the toilet and get fed.   :)

Anything more than that is just icing on the cake.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Karza on February 11, 2007, 04:11:52 pm
In the Alpine hotels they might not speak english but they do understand a lot. :) :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on February 12, 2007, 09:15:11 am
You could go to Vivaldi (http://www.vivaldi.at). It is in Western Austria and deadsmack in the middle of all the good stuff. They are not that expensive, Dutch owned which means English speaking, catered for bikers, with garage parking, wrenching area and roadbooks.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on February 26, 2007, 03:57:36 pm
A listing of a few motorcycle rental companies...

The BMWMOA Global Touring - Touring in Europe site (scroll down to rentals)...
http://www.bmwmoa.org/global/ToEurope.htm

Knopf Motorradreisen in Heidelberg...
http://www.knopftours.com

Allround Motorradvermietung in Frankfurt...
http://www.motorradvermietung.de

BiancoBlu in Milan...
http://www.biancoblu.com

Feel free to add a few with links to any others.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on May 02, 2007, 08:28:12 pm
A listing of Euro & Alps videos...just what you needed... :lol:

An extremely well done stills-in-motion non-video with classical music...
Roads of Northern Italy (http://www.dankalal.net/2006trip13/ItalyRoads.wmv)

An extremely well made video...
Riding In The Dolomites (http://motorradkarawane.de/fpx/dolomiten.wmv)

A series of videos by Steve Farson...
Campolongo Pass in the Dolomites of Northern Italy (http://www.farson.com/video/alp2b.wmv)

Grödnerjoch in the Dolomites of Northern Italy (http://www.farson.com/video/alp2c.wmv)

Sella Pass in the Dolomites of Northern Italy (http://www.farson.com/video/alp2d.wmv)

Passo dello Stelvio in Northern Italy (http://www.farson.com/video/alp2e.wmv)

Fedaia Pass in the Dolomites of Northern Italy (http://www.farson.com/video/alp2a.wmv)

St. Gotthard Pass in Switzerland (http://www.farson.com/video/alp3.wmv)

Locomango Pass in Switzerland (http://www.farson.com/video/alp4a.wmv)

Oberalp Pass in Switzerland (http://www.farson.com/video/alp4b.wmv)

Susten Pass in Switzerland (http://www.farson.com/video/alp4c.wmv)

Nufenen Pass in Switzerland (http://www.farson.com/video/alp1.wmv)

And for something a bit different; a video from one of the premiere tracks in the world (90 Mb)...
A Fast Lap of the 20.8 Km North Loop at the Nürburgring (http://www.afm.at/mpegs/nurburgring.mpg)

Feel free to add any Euro/Alps related videos that you've come across.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: gforce on May 02, 2007, 10:38:06 pm
Nice!  Thanks for the links, esp the Nordschleife lap!


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on May 03, 2007, 01:54:35 am
Two of mine:

Col de la Bonette (http://www.sport-touring.eu/movies/FJR-Bonnete%20(small).wmv)
Gr. St. Bernard (http://www.sport-touring.eu/movies/FJR-Gt-Bernard.wmv)

I will be leaving for a 8,000km trip through France and Spain in 2 days. Pictures to follow. :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on May 03, 2007, 08:07:07 am
Have a great ride!  


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on June 30, 2007, 03:36:08 am
I'm on the tailend of another great month of riding over here and came up with another reason for going on a self guided tour....

WEATHER!

Imagine having spent big coin on a tour and ending up with a streak of bad weather; weather so bad that it is raining heavily all day. Yeah I know, you can ride, but it takes a lot of the fun out of the day.

Self guided lets you choose where you can ride...where the weather is better. So its raining this week in this part of Austria? No problem, I'll head on over to Italy for a few days...so I did.

PS the weather is usually better at the southern end of the Alps.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on June 30, 2007, 04:53:56 am
So you went from where it's pouring all day to where they're having a heatwave! I'll bet your clothes dried out quick.  :lol:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 01, 2007, 04:19:47 am

So you went from where it's pouring all day to where they're having a heatwave! I'll bet your clothes dried out quick.  :lol:


Heatwave? 30 C was comfortable. But yes, my Aerostich suit dried in no time.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on July 04, 2007, 07:59:48 am
To get back on the subject of DIY travel, on my Spain trip I did almost 8000km at a cost of 550 euro's for gas. The 2 weeks (14 days) spend in Spain cost me about 500 euro for anything else except gas. Now this is cheaper than the Alps cause food and drinks don't cost nothing in Spain (when was the last time you could have two half liter beers + tapas for 2.40 anywhere in Europe? I did, in Merida), but I am not complaining.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 04, 2007, 04:24:21 pm
To get back on the subject of DIY travel, on my Spain trip I did almost 8000km at a cost of 550 euro's for gas.


I just added up my gas expenditures for my last trip:

For 12 days of riding covering about 5500 kms, I spent exactly €400 which totalled CA$589.24 on my charge card.

A new record for a fill-up...a whopping €43.10 or CA$63.78. Wow...but worth every penny when you get to ride on roads as good as the Alps.

As for accomodations, I overnighted in Austria where a night with breakfast ran between €20 or €30. A bargain! A night in a hotel in Croatia ran me €35 with a buffet breakfast and buffet dinner which included endless white or red wine. You had to pay for Coke or bottle water; the exact opposite of North America.  :lol:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on July 05, 2007, 03:35:29 am
Alex, you really need to update your website. You don't even have your 2004 trip on there yet! :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 05, 2007, 09:40:02 am

Alex, you really need to update your website. You don't even have your 2004 trip on there yet! :)


I know, I know.

Blame that digital camera I bought before my 2004 tour. Life was easier when I used my film camera...less pics to sort though and decide upon.

I have my 2006 pics without captions (to follow when I have time) on my Smugmug site...
http://edelweiss.smugmug.com


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on July 05, 2007, 05:40:09 pm
Ah, the blessings if digital photography. Personally, I would never want to go back to film. It's so much more convenient and so much cheaper.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: photomd on July 06, 2007, 08:51:02 pm
Alex, I might talk The Wife into touring the Austrian Alps in Sept. Your site and advice has been great. Thanks!  :thumbsup:

However, I've still got questions...if you don't mind.

Do you get additional medical insurance? My insurance covers me, but I have to pay up front and file for reimbursment. For the right price, travel insurance may be easier. I take it you have a bike over there. If I go, I'll be renting. Can I get additional insurance through my carrier over here or should I look to get insurance over there? Also accomidations: do you just play it by ear? Have you had trouble finding a place to stay? I do this when I travel, but The Wife gets a little antsy about this. Is there a way to find places to find before hand. I'll google stuff, but I feel like I'm throwing darts at a board: no idea what I'm looking at. Thanks for your help.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 07, 2007, 08:15:34 am

Ah, the blessings if digital photography. Personally, I would never want to go back to film. It's so much more convenient and so much cheaper.


Yeah, I know its convenient, but film has soooo much more latitude. And what is this White Balance shit? I never had to worry about that on film.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 07, 2007, 08:32:22 am
Alex, I might talk The Wife into touring the Austrian Alps in Sept.


You shouldn't have to...at least you won't have to for your return trip.  ;)

Do you get additional medical insurance? My insurance covers me, but I have to pay up front and file for reimbursment. For the right price, travel insurance may be easier.


I used to get travel insurance through the CAA (like your AAA in the US), but I was recently reminded that I am covered through my work travel insurance whether I am on business or not.

I take it you have a bike over there. If I go, I'll be renting. Can I get additional insurance through my carrier over here or should I look to get insurance over there?


I do because I go every year. If rental rates came down to planet earth, I'd rent, but I refuse to pay for their motorcycles in a matter of months. There must be some Dutch in me...I'm cheap!

Additional insurance? Are we back to talking about medical insurance or do you mean insurance for the motorcycle? The rental motorcycles are covered but with a high deductible; usually at least US$1000. You can get a lower deductible for an extra fee.

Also accomodations: do you just play it by ear? Have you had trouble finding a place to stay? I do this when I travel, but The Wife gets a little antsy about this. Is there a way to find places to find before hand.


In my thirteen years in a row of touring there, I just made my first advance booking last month and only because I would be arriving late. Also, in that same time period, I can count on two hands the amount of times I had to check with a second B&B or albergo for a room, usually across the street.

Read through this thread. You'll find lists of accomodations...1st post.

Europe goes on vacation in July and August and during that time I would probably book ahead, but September shouldn't be an issue.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: photomd on July 07, 2007, 12:10:54 pm




Additional insurance? Are we back to talking about medical insurance or do you mean insurance for the motorcycle? The rental motorcycles are covered but with a high deductible; usually at least US$1000. You can get a lower deductible for an extra fee.



I'm talking about extra insurance for the bike. I assume that the $2000 the rental company holds is the decutible. I'm wondering if I can use my insurance stateside to decrease that to something like $250. Or is it even worth doing? :shrug:

Thanks for all your help. Your website and links have made this a pretty easy process. :clap:

Now post more pictures!  ;)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 07, 2007, 07:25:46 pm
I'm talking about extra insurance for the bike. I assume that the $2000 the rental company holds is the deductible. I'm wondering if I can use my insurance stateside to decrease that to something like $250. Or is it even worth doing? :shrug:


Just as your insurance stateside won't cover your motorcycle anywhere out of North America, it probably won't cover or lower your deductible either.

Just use your charge card but make sure they only get an approval without putting it through or you'll loose on the exchange rate both ways.


Thanks for all your help. Your website and links have made this a pretty easy process. :clap:


Anytime! You're going to have the best ride of your life. Its unfortunate that the vast majority of tours written up don't get into the actual "how to" details.


Now post more pictures!  ;)


I've never really written up any tour reports with loads of pics on forums. Forums come and go so I prefer to use my web site for that. I'm finally getting high speed at the end of the month. I'll start uploading pics to my web site and Smugmug...but for now...

(http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/photos/170110121-M.jpg)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on July 10, 2007, 02:38:00 am

I do because I go every year. If rental rates came down to planet earth, I'd rent, but I refuse to pay for their motorcycles in a matter of months. There must be some Dutch in me...I'm cheap!

 :angry3: ;)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ralf on July 10, 2007, 04:28:42 am


 :angry3: ;)


If you were Dutch, you'd be riding something like this:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/Lippmra/Miscellaneous/Wohnwagen.jpg)
(Joke! ;))


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on July 10, 2007, 05:54:39 am
Don't get me started about my fellow countrymen with their f* cars and caravans crawling up the mountain passes at walking speed, refusing to move to the side and let the traffic pass.

Same goes for your German counterparts in their campers/rv's.

 :angry3: :mad2: :hurl:

;)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 10, 2007, 08:36:18 am

If you were Dutch, you'd be riding something like this:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k44/Lippmra/Miscellaneous/Wohnwagen.jpg)
(Joke! ;))


It wouldn't be a joke if you were Swiss. For some reason, the Swiss have love affairs with Gold Wings, Honda Pan Europeans, trikes and large American cars.  :headscratch:

The Dutch just block the mountain passes with their cars and campers and especially the passes that have caravans crossed out on the map. You can always tell how well off a nation is by the amount of foreign licence plates that you see on the road. The Dutch are well off, thanks to their global domination of banking, insurance and the diamond trade. Just wait till the ice caps melt.  :p


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ralf on July 10, 2007, 10:04:38 am



It wouldn't be a joke if you were Swiss. For some reason, the Swiss have love affairs with Gold Wings, Honda Pan Europeans, trikes and large American cars.  :headscratch:

The Dutch just block the mountain passes with their cars and campers and especially the passes that have caravans crossed out on the map. You can always tell how well off a nation is by the amount of foreign licence plates that you see on the road. The Dutch are well off, thanks to their global domination of banking, insurance and the diamond trade. Just wait till the ice caps melt.  :p


What I especially love is how the campers tend to travel in packs. This makes it even more "fun" to pass them in the mountains...  :hurl:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on July 10, 2007, 12:15:50 pm
I've noticed another thing Dutch and Swiss bikers have in common: Electraglides.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on July 11, 2007, 02:55:50 am
Actually, you don't see too many hardleys here.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ant on July 24, 2007, 08:52:07 am
Ladies and Gents who've been posting in this thread saying that they fancy the idea of a Euro tour there are strong rumblings of an STN meet in Europe next year. So all you people who are saying you've always wanted to do it etc get yourselves over to the thread linked in my sig. Go... Go now!!  :bigok:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on November 20, 2007, 09:28:15 am
Anyone needing ferry service within Europe, should go to the following link, click on Tourism and then Ferries.

http://www.uem-online.org


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on February 25, 2008, 08:28:32 am
I happened to be at the Montreal Motorcycle Show last weekend and while there, I came across a tour operator that I'd never heard of before; Voyages Traditours (http://www.traditours.com/index.php) operating out of Montreal, Canada. The owner/operator who was at the show runs a travel agency but also happens to have a passion for motorcycle travel. He started Voyages Traditours in 1999. The web site happens to be in French only at the moment, but the owner spoke English quite well if you wanted further information.

I've always rolled my eyes at the cost of "organized tours" and chuckled at what one gets for the money, but this operator seems to have more down to earth prices for tours all over planet earth; 24 based on the brochure they were handing out at the show.

What may make their rates appealing to some is that they are quite a bit cheaper than other tour operators, PLUS it includes the return flight from Montreal, Canada. The flight alone to Thailand alone can cost quite a chuck of change, yet a 16 day all-inclusive tour there goes for $3639...yes, that includes the flight.

So what if you don't live near Montreal, Canada? As a travel agency, he said he could work out a flight from anywhere at very good rates.

Disclaimer: I've never used an "organized tour operator" for any of my tours, so I'm not for or against any of them. I'm just passing this information along.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on February 26, 2008, 02:11:35 pm

(http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/photos/170110121-M.jpg)


Btw, would this by any chance happen to be that small road about halfway up the Alpe d'Huez?


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on February 26, 2008, 02:46:26 pm
Btw, would this by any chance happen to be that small road about halfway up the Alpe d'Huez?


Nope, it happens to be that small road between Levico Terme and Passo di Vezzena in Northern Italy. Levico Terme is on the SS 47 just east of Trento.

The road is known as the Kaiserjägerweg. Take the SP 133dir south out of Levico Terme. The road splits, and you don't want to take the road to Caldonazzo.

Its amazing the roads you find without an organized tour guide by just looking at a good map.  :lol:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on February 26, 2008, 05:46:40 pm

[...]
The road is known as the Kaiserjägerweg. Take the SP 133dir south out of Levico Terme. The road splits, and you don't want to take the road to Caldonazzo.
[...]


Dare I ask why not?  


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on February 26, 2008, 07:36:17 pm
Dare I ask why not?


Because if you do, you won't be going up the Kaiserjägerweg.

Click on the link below and a map centering on Levico Terme should appear. See that little red line heading south to the S 349? Well thats the Kaiserjägerweg.

Now zoom in and you'll see that the road forks; one up the Kaiserjägerweg and the other towards Caldonazzo and if you continue, to Centa San Nicolo which is also a nice road to take...and then onto Passo del Sommo. That whole area between the S 46, the S 349 and the S 12 is good riding.


http://www.viamichelin.fr/viamichelin/gbr/dyn/controller/Cartes-plans?mapId=-tuptyzxf39j6dp&initialMap=mapid&dx=470&dy=323&empriseW=941&empriseH=646


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on February 26, 2008, 08:13:13 pm
Oh.  I thought you were going to say "go that way and meet the mountain trolls in person!" or something equally "well, ya, I won't go there either".  


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on February 27, 2008, 01:49:34 am



Nope, it happens to be that small road between Levico Terme and Passo di Vezzena in Northern Italy. Levico Terme is on the SS 47 just east of Trento.

The road is known as the Kaiserjägerweg. Take the SP 133dir south out of Levico Terme. The road splits, and you don't want to take the road to Caldonazzo.

Its amazing the roads you find without an organized tour guide by just looking at a good map.  :lol:

Kewl, I will have to look that one up some time. The pic looks just like a tiny little road off Alpe d'Huez, which is pretty hard to find if you don't know it as you have to crawl through some tinny little streets in the village of Huez, and doesn't seem to get any traffic. Gives a nice view over the pass and the valley below.


The little white road from Huez to Sardonne (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=alpe+d'huez&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.048013,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=45.101517,6.042309&spn=0.052223,0.11673&z=13)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: RBEmerson on February 27, 2008, 08:27:20 am
The fun part is looking at this map in satellite mode...   :bigok:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: mtmc on March 09, 2008, 08:45:36 am
Alex,

I am planning on shipping a bike from the States to Europe, June or October of this year, and keeping it there for an extended period, possibly years. The plan is to ride it on vacation, going where the wind blows and then storing it where ever I end up, until the next vacation (I get a month off at a time every 3 months). No planned specific routes or milage, because I have plenty of time and this is a long term venture. I have scoured the net for info and you seem to be the right person to corner and ask a question or two:

First on Bikes:
Which bike would you consider for this trip? I am currently all over the map on this issue. I am partial to BMWs, and I am not opposed to buying a new bike to send over, fortunately money isn't much of an issue as I am single and an expert at internal rationalization. I have an '07 GS Adv., which I am very comfortable with, that I would consider sending, but I was thinking it might be a little big for the small towns and roads I am likely to encounter, I have been to Europe before but not out driving in rural areas, so this is a guess on my part. An RT doesn't seem to be a bad choice, but then again I have never been on one. I also think a R1200R might be a good choice, I have an '01 1150R. I am not into sport bikes and I am a pretty sedate rider, also in the event of accidental marriage, I think it would be smart to have a bike suitable for two-up riding. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.

Second on Bike storage:
How prevalent are self-storage units/mini-warehouses in Europe? I have found limited results on google, I believe this is because I don't know what they are called over there?

Great thread I look forward to your response and help and maybe I'll see you on the road.

-Matt


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on March 09, 2008, 10:31:57 am

Alex,

I am planning on shipping a bike from the States to Europe, June or October of this year, and keeping it there for an extended period, possibly years. The plan is to ride it on vacation, going where the wind blows and then storing it where ever I end up, until the next vacation (I get a month off at a time every 3 months). No planned specific routes or mileage, because I have plenty of time and this is a long term venture.


Hi Matt,

Thats what I have done and what I do. Its the best way to go about it, if you can. This'll be my 14th year in a row. See you there in June? If you go in October, you'll have to skip the Alps and head for Spain and similar temperate areas.


First on Bikes:
Which bike would you consider for this trip? I am currently all over the map on this issue. I am partial to BMWs, and I am not opposed to buying a new bike to send over, fortunately money isn't much of an issue as I am single and an expert at internal rationalization. I have an '07 GS Adv., which I am very comfortable with, that I would consider sending, but I was thinking it might be a little big for the small towns and roads I am likely to encounter, I have been to Europe before but not out driving in rural areas, so this is a guess on my part. An RT doesn't seem to be a bad choice, but then again I have never been on one. I also think a R1200R might be a good choice, I have an '01 1150R. I am not into sport bikes and I am a pretty sedate rider, also in the event of accidental marriage, I think it would be smart to have a bike suitable for two-up riding. Any and all input would be greatly appreciated.


Well if I could have, I would have bought a new BMW R100 GS Paris Dakar in 2004 instead of a new 2004 R1150 GS Adventure. Riding around Europe, the Adventure is fine (more on that a bit further down), but there are other places nearby that I'd like to ride and will, but would have prefered "simplicity" over "complexity". I can source a fuel pump anywhere in Europe; Norkapp or Morocco would take a bit more time...not to mention...on the airhead GS, I don't even need something as silly as a fuel pump. Anyway, I never found a good used R100 GS PD to my liking and the '04 GS Adventure came by by accident at one hell of a deal.

What would I consider for a bike? Well I guess with 4 GSes in the stables, I'm a bit biased on that one. I'd pick any unfaired motorcycle with an upright seating position, a good seat, wide handlebars and good luggage options. Although not an issue in most of Europe, I still wanted good range; I'm good for 500 kms (300 miles) on a tank.

Size? For any serious off-roading any GS other than maybe the original R80 G/S PD is a joke. Around towns and ultra narrow back roads, a 650 single would have been preferable, but then you have those times where "long legs" are needed to cover larger distances in a day, comfortably. Its a trade off. I think an 800 cc bike would be ideal, but I can't think of one other than a Honda Africa Twin 750 which was not available here.



Second on Bike storage:
How prevalent are self-storage units/mini-warehouses in Europe? I have found limited results on google, I believe this is because I don't know what they are called over there?


Europe isn't so big that you can't get to a central location within a long day. I have no experience with the service, but enough happy customers use him; Stefan Knopf of Knopf Motorradreisen in Heidelberg. Heidelberg is a good central location and thats who I would use and where I'd store my motorcycle if I had to. Plus its a short easy run down from Frankfurt, a major airport. Click on his "How to get to Knopftours" link for train and bus options.

http://www.knopftours.com


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on March 09, 2008, 10:41:19 am

Second on Bike storage:
How prevalent are self-storage units/mini-warehouses in Europe?


mototouring (http://www.mototouring.com/) near Milan offers storage and basic bike maintenance such as oil changes.

I have no idea about the quality of their services...I just read about it on the net  :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: mtmc on March 09, 2008, 04:03:19 pm
I am planning on starting out in Lisbon, Portugal (seems like a good place to start). I don't want a central hub for storage, as that would mean having to be somewhere. I would like to simply, at the end of a trip, find a near by place to store the bike and then take a bus or train to the airport, and on the next trip be able to pick back up where I left off. This would allow me to meander around as much as possible.  Thanks for the link Orson those are the places I need to find as well as Stefan Knopf's place.

Alex, I must admit you kind of talked me in a circle about the bikes. Of the three I mentioned which one you recommend and any other specific makes/models to consider? Also, I will be riding in all seasons as I have winter and summer breaks. I really don't want to appear to be a pain in the butt as I would like to pick your brain and see you on the road down the line.

-Matt


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on March 09, 2008, 05:02:50 pm
Alex, I must admit you kind of talked me in a circle about the bikes. Of the three I mentioned which one you recommend and any other specific makes/models to consider?


Well since you already have an '07 GS Adventure, why not stick with that. I don't have any trouble handling it in the tightest of hairpins and narrowest of roads. See below...

If you want to leave that one at home and get another, then I'd suggest an R1200 GS provided you can get it with a low 1st gear. You'll need it. Both my Adventures came with the lower 1st gear and having lived with them both here and in the Alps, I can imagine what the normal or regular 1st gear must be like...frustrating.

Either of your other "unfaired" bikes will do also. I just prefer the stance on the GS. I wouldn't want an RT, LT or similar. It can get quite hot behind a fairing and that wind blast is a treat in the slower stuff.

That road is narrow to start with and super tight if you are on the inside...
(http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/photos/148878875_WaLGT-L.jpg)

A GS Adventure almost taking up a whole lane in Corsica...
(http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/photos/151428495_NNdNM-L.jpg)



Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: mtmc on March 09, 2008, 10:14:14 pm
Perfect, Thanks Alex. I am sure I'll have more later. Any advice from anyone else? I am sure others could use the info.

-Matt


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on March 09, 2008, 11:04:47 pm
From my experience, U-Storage places such as the ones that are plentiful in the US, aren't that plentiful in Europe. They could have them hidden somewhere, but in my recollections, I only remember seeing one in London.

In my case, I found a mom & pop Guzzi shop who store my bike for me. They prep the bike for me so it's ready to go when I arrive. A big city dealer may not have been as helpful. These people are very nice treat me like a long lost relative whenever I return  :)

As Alex mentioned, Europe is fairly small. You can ride from southern Sweden to northern Italy in 2 days.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on March 10, 2008, 02:08:31 am
That's like saying the US is a small country, cause you can drive from Kansas to Dallas in 1 day. From the North of Norway to the South of Italy is over 3000 miles, and about half of that East to West.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on March 10, 2008, 02:13:18 am

That's like saying the US is a small country, cause you can drive from Kansas to Dallas in 1 day. From the North of Norway to the South of Italy is over 3000 miles, and about half of that East to West.

now, who could take offense over sumthin I said?  :D

I meant, if you were short on time, motorways can get you across Europe fairly quickly.

there  :D

surely someone named throttlemeister has no objection to that  :D


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on March 10, 2008, 08:47:55 am
That's like saying the US is a small country, cause you can drive from Kansas to Dallas in 1 day. From the North of Norway to the South of Italy is over 3000 miles, and about half of that East to West.


OK, lets keep it simple.

Without doing a marathon, you can easily do 1000 kilometer days and not arrive ultra late anywhere. That based on using autobahns, autoroutes, autostradas or motorways, no heavy traffic and no endless contruction zones.

Using a combination of back roads and autobahns (A7, A8 and A5), I can leave Rovereto in the morning and be in Heidelberg by late afternoon and still stop along the way to take plenty of pics.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on March 10, 2008, 09:40:33 am


now, who could take offense over sumthin I said?  :D

I meant, if you were short on time, motorways can get you across Europe fairly quickly.

there  :D

surely someone named throttlemeister has no objection to that  :D

Just nitpicking. :D


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Musicman on March 23, 2008, 07:29:07 pm



Yeah, I know its convenient, but film has soooo much more latitude. And what is this White Balance shit? I never had to worry about that on film.


Film is normally balanced for daylight or flash. If you shot film indoors using natural tungsten light and no flash everyone will be yellow... very yellow. With film you could buy tungsten balanced film at high-end camera stores, with digital just change a setting.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Musicman on March 23, 2008, 07:37:44 pm



mototouring (http://www.mototouring.com/) near Milan offers storage and basic bike maintenance such as oil changes.

I have no idea about the quality of their services...I just read about it on the net  :)


I have some friends who keep their bikes at Mototouring. They have used them for years and are happy with them. I have rented from them three times with good experiences too.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on March 24, 2008, 06:01:27 pm



Film is normally balanced for daylight or flash. If you shot film indoors using natural tungsten light and no flash everyone will be yellow... very yellow. With film you could buy tungsten balanced film at high-end camera stores, with digital just change a setting.

You mean...

(http://www.sport-touring.eu/albums/small/070510_IMG_1545.JPG)

Yellow?

Of course, I could have changed the WB to get the true colors. But then I'd lost the atmosphere too. WB is overrated. People should be a little less obsessed with capturing the right colors and a little more with capturing the right feeling. The reason you see yellow with tungsten lighting is because the light IS yellow. Using a flash or a compensated film or adjusted WB changes your picture to something that isn't there and something you never saw with your own two eyes. That doesn't mean they don't have their uses, but people use them too much unnecessary imo.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 07, 2008, 10:19:12 am
Fuel prices are certainly becoming a big part of any tour in Europe...no complaints though  ;)...

FYI! Fuel prices per liter during June 2008 were:

€1.206 for Super 95 in Slovenia;
€1.354 for Super 95 to as high as €1.529 for Shell V-Power 100 in Austria;
€1.687 for Shell V-Power 100 in Italy.
As high as €1.709 for Aral Ultimate 100 in Germany.

4 weeks of riding ran me €636 or about US$1000.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: photomd on July 07, 2008, 12:01:59 pm
Are you still keeping a bike over there? I read where the EU is throwing fines at people who keep bikes in the EU for greater than one year if the bike is imported. Any news?


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: mtmc on July 07, 2008, 01:01:41 pm
I took my bike to lisbon from the US in May and they didn't say anything about such a thing at the customs warehouse. Of course they could have and I would not have known, my Portuguese is nonexistent.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 07, 2008, 01:53:38 pm

Are you still keeping a bike over there? I read where the EU is throwing fines at people who keep bikes in the EU for greater than one year if the bike is imported. Any news?


I've never had an issue, even when chatting to the German Polizei at an autobahn rest stop.

So take it out of the EU for a day and then re-enter.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: TexPaul on July 10, 2008, 09:34:34 am
Alex,

First off let me thank you for all the great info and advice you've given to date.  We're heading to the Alps and Dolomite's in early September (2 weeks) and I was wondering about availability of accommodations.  I've been on several websites that list MC friendly places (MOBIKEHOTEL to name one).  Do you think we need to make reservations in advance of our arrival or, that time of year is it possible to find a place without much hassle at days end?  We plan to stay in one place for 2-3 days at a time but there may be situations where we only spend one night.
Also, we're going to take a day to visit Venice while in the Dolomite's, but we are not driving into Venice.  Was considering staying someplace close (like Verona) and taking a train or bus for the day.  Any suggestions?


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: dtor on July 10, 2008, 10:52:50 am

Also, we're going to take a day to visit Venice while in the Dolomite's, but we are not driving into Venice.  Was considering staying someplace close (like Verona) and taking a train or bus for the day.  Any suggestions?


If you choose to stay in Verona (a very nice city) the Albergo Torcolo is a nice ** hotel.

http://www.hoteltorcolo.it/en/index.html

If you want to stay closer to Venice, there are lots of hotels on the River Brenta road which is just south of and parallel to the A4 autostrada from Padua to Venice. Plenty of busses to take you into Venice in 20 minutes or so depending how far out the road you stay. There's a tourist info place on the A4 west of Venice which will book rooms anywhere in the area for you.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on July 10, 2008, 12:47:00 pm
We stayed in Verona (a very nice town) and took the train to Venice. A word of warning: on Saturday and Sunday morning, every bugger in Milan has the same idea and they get all the seats before you get on the train. Be prepared to stand all the way to Venice. Or, go on a weekday.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 10, 2008, 02:47:39 pm

Alex,

We're heading to the Alps and Dolomite's in early September (2 weeks) and I was wondering about availability of accommodations. Do you think we need to make reservations in advance of our arrival or, that time of year is it possible to find a place without much hassle at days end?


Do you have your tour planned? If so, what towns do you think you might be staying in? Let me know and I'll post places that I've stayed at. Other Euro touring members might want to help out as well.

I'm always in Europe between the end of May and the middle of July, so I can't comment on accomodation availablity in September, but I would think you'd be OK then. Since you plan to stay put for 2 to 3 days, use the day you arrive to call ahead to your next planned stop. You do have those accomodations lists at the beginning of this thread?



Also, we're going to take a day to visit Venice while in the Dolomite's, but we are not driving into Venice. Was considering staying someplace close (like Verona) and taking a train or bus for the day. Any suggestions?


Good plan and Verona is a nice little city to meander through as well.

BTW, I'm sorry to be back here. You are going to have one hell of a great time. Lets hope the weather cooperates.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: TexPaul on July 11, 2008, 09:31:03 am
Alex,

We have some of the trip planned, some not.
The plunging dollar and the rising price of gas are making this trip more expensive by the day so I'm trying to stick to a budget (for 2 people on 2 motorcycles)of under 150 euro a day for lodging and under 75 euro a day for food.  We figure the food part should be easy since the room usually includes breakfast and we plan to hit the local store and do picnic lunches as often as possible.
We'll leave Munich Sept 11 and head to the Dolomites, probably Arabba since it's central and not as touristy as Cortina or Bolzano.  Stay there 3-4 nights then go to Verona for 2 nights for the day trip to Venice.  Am considering Treviso as an alternative to Verona as you can get a bus to Venice.  In anyone has experience with Treviso I'd appreciate your impressions.
From there I am considering going from Lake Garda to Lake Como then up into Switzerland, say Andermatt or someplace similar.  Question, allowing for riding around the lakes and some sightseeing, is Garda to Como doable in one day if we take the road through the high passes to Morbegno?
Once in the Andermatt area we will probably stay 3-5 days exploring as much as possible before returning to Munich on the 24th.
Your hotel lists, like all the other info you've supplied, is great.  We just need to decide how much, and where, we want to try and see in the 14 days we have.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 11, 2008, 11:08:36 am
The plunging dollar and the rising price of gas are making this trip more expensive by the day so I'm trying to stick to a budget (for 2 people on 2 motorcycles) of under 150 euro a day for lodging and under 75 euro a day for food.


If that is your budget for two per day, then you are really splurging big time.

You'll be able to get by for €55 per person per day in the Dolomites and that includes breakfast and dinner. Yes, you can find more expensive places; some even cheaper. A nice room with just breakfast can be had for €35.

Cheap lunches can be had at Spar or DeSpar grocery stores in Austria and Italy. Two Kaiser buns with cheese, ham and couple of pickle slices will run you €3.50. Add a yogurt and a drink and you're in at under €5.

Dinner can be had under €12 with a beer.

You should consider getting Microsoft AutoRoute 2007 (under $40 from Amazon). Its the European version of Streets & Trips. I could send you some routes.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: TexPaul on July 11, 2008, 01:25:41 pm
Alex,

I figured I budgeted a bit high.  If I get by cheaper then I just have more for gas!
I have the program you mention and and would greatly appreciate any routes you are willing to supply.

Thanks again for all the help.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: tenbears on July 16, 2008, 06:03:54 am
Overal good advice ... but €35 is extremely optimistic, Alex. I recon Tex will easily see the thick end of €75. Add the partner's share, doubling it up & I think you're in a comfort zone.

I imagine it can't be that often someone from the States makes a trip like this, so why skimp when to many it's a trip of a lifetime?

As for accomodation and pre-booking – we've never pre-booked anywhere in Europe in 20 years of touring from Scandinavia to the heel of Italy, Budapest to Porto and never had a problem anywhere. In many ways I feel it's somewhat restricting to pre-book, preferring instead to ride out and stop when & where the mood takes. With a flexible itinarary you can wander off the beaten track making the whole experience more of an adventure.

I'm planning an Alpine tour for May 2009 based in the Northern Italian Lakes. There's a good site here on Alpine passes.

http://www.alpineroads.com/index.php


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on July 16, 2008, 07:23:22 am

As for accomodation and pre-booking – we've never pre-booked anywhere in Europe in 20 years of touring from Scandinavia to the heel of Italy, Budapest to Porto and never had a problem anywhere. In many ways I feel it's somewhat restricting to pre-book, preferring instead to ride out and stop when & where the mood takes. With a flexible itinarary you can wander off the beaten track making the whole experience more of an adventure.

 :withstupid:

I've never pre-booked myself and never had a problem.

some people get stressed by not having a reserved room...I get stressed by the feeling that I have to be somewhere that night  :D


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 16, 2008, 08:22:31 am
Overal good advice ... but €35 is extremely optimistic, Alex. I recon Tex will easily see the thick end of €75. Add the partner's share, doubling it up & I think you're in a comfort zone.


Maybe optomistic in the UK, but not in the Alps. Paul banked on €75 per person per night for a room with breakfast. He'll be able to have a very nice room with breakfast and dinner for €100 per night for the both of them. Of course beer and wine are extra, but that was in another budget of his.

June 2008...all rates with a hearty breakfast unless noted...2 and 3 star hotels with clean equipped rooms and clean bathrooms (some you could even eat off the floor).

Gasthof Blasl, Losenstein (A): €32 per night
http://www.tiscover.at/at/guide/57577at,de,SCH1/objectId,ACC187827at,selectedEntry,home/home.html (http://www.tiscover.at/at/guide/57577at,de,SCH1/objectId,ACC187827at,selectedEntry,home/home.html)

Alpengasthof Kalte Kuckl, Kalte Kuckl (A): €22 per night
http://www.kaltekuchl.at (http://www.kaltekuchl.at)

Gasthof Bergler Stub'n, Wenigzell (A): €42 per night with a gourmet dinner (the husband and wife team were both chefs in Arlberg during the winter),
http://www.bergler-stubn.at (http://www.bergler-stubn.at)

Gasthof Winkler, Tröpolach (A): €30 per night,
http://www.ghwinkler.at (http://www.ghwinkler.at)

Albergo Passo Buole, Riva di Vallarsa (I): €36 per night (€43 with dinner),
http://www.fortezzebiketour.it/alberghi/passo_buole.aspx (http://www.fortezzebiketour.it/alberghi/passo_buole.aspx)

Gasthof Grüntenblick, Agathazell (D): €26 per night.
http://www.gruentenblick.de (http://www.gruentenblick.de)

But yes, you can spend €75 and lots more to get no more. And once the lights are out for the night, all rooms look alike.  ;)

I've been doing this a while.  :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: tenbears on July 17, 2008, 07:22:21 am

Maybe optomistic in the UK, but not in the Alps. Paul banked on €75 per person per night for a room with breakfast. He'll be able to have a very nice room with breakfast and dinner for €100 per night for the both of them. Of course beer and wine are extra, but that was in another budget of his.
Yeah, sure.... but don't forget you've got other daily expenditure. Generally, I think Austria, Switzerland and Germany are dearer than the UK, although recently that position may be contended.

Quote
But yes, you can spend €75 and lots more to get no more. And once the lights are out for the night, all rooms look alike.  ;)
Good list of cheapo's there! BRAVO!

Quote
I've been doing this a while.  :)
Me too, join the club.  ;)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: tenbears on July 17, 2008, 07:23:30 am

some people get stressed by not having a reserved room...I get stressed by the feeling that I have to be somewhere that night  :D


Me too!  :thumbsup:

 :D


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 17, 2008, 08:07:15 am
Yeah, sure.... but don't forget you've got other daily expenditure.


Yes, I know and they weren't part of the €150 Paul quoted for what he had banked for daily accomodation for two.

Generally, I think Austria, Switzerland and Germany are dearer than the UK, although recently that position may be contended.


£80 per night in a B&B in Densole (before I talked them down). That was CA$175 for a night in 2005 (Yikes!  :eek:). I wanted a room for the night; I didn't want to buy the place.  :lol: Austria can't be beat for some of the lowest prices for accomodations. So compared to my experience in the UK, mainland Europe is dirt cheap!

Anyway, pointless arguing...I've made my case on pricing with URLs for the places I've stayed. The max I paid was €42 for an incredible room that included a 5 course gourmet dinner. So you might say that €42 also included "other daily expenditures" as well.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: BBB on July 17, 2008, 12:52:55 pm
Be aware of the rates listed above as they are the price per person. So for a couple the examples listed vary from 44 to 72 euros per night for bed and breakfast or 84 euros per night with the gourmet dinner. At the current rate of exchange that works out from just under £37 to £60 a night, or £70 a night including the gourmet dinner.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 17, 2008, 08:14:04 pm
Be aware of the rates listed above as they are the price per person.


For accomodation rates in Europe, that is almost always the case....a per person charge. Some places "list" an einzelzimmerzuschlag which is a single occupany surcharge because if alone, you are occupying a room for two, but I have yet to have been charged that in my all my years touring there.

With respect to North America, amazingly European accomodations are far cheaper.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: BBB on July 18, 2008, 01:16:11 pm



For accomodation rates in Europe, that is almost always the case....a per person charge. Some places "list" an einzelzimmerzuschlag which is a single occupany surcharge because if alone, you are occupying a room for two, but I have yet to have been charged that in my all my years touring there.




It certainly adds a different complexion to the rates you qouted in the post above and perhaps its something you should make clearer to the other members so that they are fully aware of the true room costs should they be travelling with a companion.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: tenbears on July 25, 2008, 08:17:21 am

With respect to North America, amazingly European accomodations are far cheaper.


Absolutely not! I just cannot agree with this.

I was there last summer... circumnavigated the States so have a pretty good idea of what States charge what rates, and I never paid anything like Euro rates for good motel rooms with ensuite swimming pools. On average a very good sized double room comes in at around £25 a night.... you just wont get anywhere near that in Europe.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ant on July 25, 2008, 09:46:48 am



Absolutely not! I just cannot agree with this.

I was there last summer... circumnavigated the States so have a pretty good idea of what States charge what rates, and I never paid anything like Euro rates for good motel rooms with ensuite swimming pools. On average a very good sized double room comes in at around £25 a night.... you just wont get anywhere near that in Europe.


:withstupid:
While I haven't spent quite so much time over there I have been across and Europe is definitely pricier.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 25, 2008, 10:19:47 am
Guys, post links to the places you've stayed as well as to their rates page...as I have.

The bottom line is...and that is what this thread is about, you can go self-guided for less than half the cost of an organized tour.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ant on July 25, 2008, 10:47:16 am

The bottom line is...and that is what this thread is about, you can go self-guided for less than half the cost of an organized tour.


Definitely with you on that one!  :bigok:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: BBB on July 25, 2008, 12:15:24 pm
It's true that organising your own tour will save a packet on the cost of an organised tour, but for us in the UK, Europe is not a cheap option at the moment. The Pound has fallen from 1.45 euros down to 1.2 in the last year and with the increase in oil prices, it is certainly more expensive to fill up in Europe than in the UK (for us UK citizens).


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: tenbears on July 25, 2008, 02:33:40 pm

The bottom line is...and that is what this thread is about, you can go self-guided for less than half the cost of an organized tour.


Without a doubt.

I often wonder why Brits do those organised runs in France or Spain ...  it's only over the Channel so what's the big deal.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 26, 2008, 01:50:16 am
I often wonder why Brits do those organised runs in France or Spain ...  it's only over the Channel so what's the big deal.


The very odd time, you'd read about someone on this side of the pond going on an organized tour on their own continent.

Who knows? I guess some people just don't like surprises. Everybody has a different comfort zone.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 28, 2008, 09:26:17 am
Here is a link to some "first timers" who went to ride the Alps on a self-guided tour...

https://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,28553.0.html (https://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,28553.0.html)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on October 03, 2008, 09:13:23 pm
The Tourertreff.eu web site has put up some great Alps info sheets you can download in PDF format and save. The sheets are in German, but each includes a map which is universal.

Each thread lists the pass name and the region it is in. The PDF file is within the first post and subsequent posts are usually filled with comments and pics from other forum members. More passes were added recently and some of them will have the PDF file included shortly.

Passes in Germany
http://tourertreff.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81

Passes in Austria
http://tourertreff.com/forumdisplay.php?f=82

Passes in Italy
http://tourertreff.com/forumdisplay.php?f=83

Passes in Switzerland
http://tourertreff.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ralf on October 06, 2008, 11:14:56 am
Hmmm... interesting site, never seen it before.

But the one thread about 50 motorcyclists dying in Southern Tyrol and as a result there are, among other things, calls for closing the passes to motorcyclists over the weekend is very depressing  :(


The Tourertreff.eu web site has put up some great Alps info sheets you can download in PDF format and save. The sheets are in German, but each includes a map which is universal.

Each thread lists the pass name and the region it is in. The PDF file is within the first post and subsequent posts are usually filled with comments and pics from other forum members. More passes were added recently and some of them will have the PDF file included shortly.

Passes in Germany
http://tourertreff.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81

Passes in Austria
http://tourertreff.com/forumdisplay.php?f=82

Passes in Italy
http://tourertreff.com/forumdisplay.php?f=83

Passes in Switzerland
http://tourertreff.com/forumdisplay.php?f=85


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on October 06, 2008, 03:30:26 pm
But the one thread about 50 motorcyclists dying in Southern Tyrol and as a result there are, among other things, calls for closing the passes to motorcyclists over the weekend is very depressing  :(


Well isn't it always the case; a few aholes effing it up for everybody else. But there are boy racers who think they are actually fast all over this planet.

In the end I don't see that happening. There are passes that are the only link from one area to another unless you you drive far out of the way.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ralf on October 07, 2008, 03:40:07 am
I imagine that ultimately the financial ramifications of lost tourism revenue would prevent any such closings. However, after putting toll booths on many passes, with talk of adding more down the road, I could see more rigorous action such as stricter police controls as a consequence. Folks, enjoy the Alps while you can...




Well isn't it always the case; a few aholes effing it up for everybody else. But there are boy racers who think they are actually fast all over this planet.

In the end I don't see that happening. There are passes that are the only link from one area to another unless you you drive far out of the way.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on October 07, 2008, 09:10:15 am
Folks, enjoy the Alps while you can...


Maybe that'll be the carrot that so many need. And maybe it'll also drive those of us who ride them every year elsewhere. That'll give me a good reason to move along since I've been over them countless times, both ways. Furthermore, there are lots of other great riding areas in Europe. Higher, in a lot of cases, isn't always better riding.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: throttlemeister on October 07, 2008, 09:20:11 am

I imagine that ultimately the financial ramifications of lost tourism revenue would prevent any such closings. However, after putting toll booths on many passes, with talk of adding more down the road, I could see more rigorous action such as stricter police controls as a consequence. Folks, enjoy the Alps while you can...


Given that on most good passes, you don't need to be speeding to get a serious speed fix, police checks might actually help getting rid of the idiots without hindering the normal riders too much.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Ralf on October 07, 2008, 10:52:26 am
All I know is that now with masses of riders on weekends at, for instance, the Sella Ronde and toll booths at some of the passes, with probably more to come, and more stringent controls on the horizon, the Alps are just not the same as there were say 10 years ago.

That said, there are a lot of roads out there and I know some secret routes that are less travel. So yes, higher is definitely not better  ;)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on October 07, 2008, 12:39:16 pm
ban tax paying vehicles from public roads?  :headscratch:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on October 07, 2008, 01:13:22 pm
ban tax paying vehicles from public roads?  :headscratch:


I wonder how much of that $1042.47 I spent in gas during those 4 weeks on the road over there was tax? Plenty, I'd bet!


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mr Sunshine on October 28, 2008, 12:24:39 am
I don't think I've reposted in this thread after returning from Europe.

I want to say thank you to Global Rider for the advice and information which allowed me to feel confident in just renting a bike on my own and riding around.  Great exeperience.  The wife and I have basically agreed that once we have payed off the trip (with some other bills), we are heading back...Spain and France most likely this time.  Maybe I'll try to incorporate a job interview in England while I'm there. :)


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on October 29, 2008, 06:53:19 am
I want to say thank you to Global Rider for the advice and information which allowed me to feel confident in just renting a bike on my own and riding around.  Great experience.  The wife and I have basically agreed that once we have payed off the trip (with some other bills), we are heading back...Spain and France most likely this time.  Maybe I'll try to incorporate a job interview in England while I'm there. :)


No need to. Its enough to know that you got to experience some great riding.

That is a problem; the desire to go back year after year.  ;) I'm counting the days myself, especially now that we got dumped on by snow this soon last night.

Sorry if you have and I haven't notice (or maybe I have and forgot - old age you know), but have you posted any pics or a ride report?



Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mr Sunshine on October 31, 2008, 01:09:07 am



No need to. Its enough to know that you got to experience some great riding.

That is a problem; the desire to go back year after year.  ;) I'm counting the days myself, especially now that we got dumped on by snow this soon last night.

Sorry if you have and I haven't notice (or maybe I have and forgot - old age you know), but have you posted any pics or a ride report?




I don't think I did a ride report...not much of a writter.  But pictures are available at http://burgifamily.smugmug.com


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: yotes65 on October 31, 2008, 01:43:05 am
GR... I've only finished the first of 7 pages of this thread. I wanted to "Thank You" for all of the usefully info that you have posted. A few friends and I would love to go across the pond for our own little Adventure. I will be reading more and planning a trip.

Thanks Again!


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on October 31, 2008, 11:42:07 am
I don't think I did a ride report...not much of a writer.  But pictures are available at http://burgifamily.smugmug.com


Same here, I don't do ride reports, instead, I prefer pics with short blurbs under each. You took a lot of pics (a few need to be rotated).

Where was this taken?
(http://burgifamily.smugmug.com/photos/322778520_MdKw4-M.jpg)



Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on October 31, 2008, 11:50:02 am
A few friends and I would love to go across the pond for our own little Adventure. I will be reading more and planning a trip.


Well I hope you do go. Anyone that has been will tell you, you won't regret it. You should have all the tools you need to start planning with those ADAC maps at the beginning of this thread.

I've started to add links to maps with some of my pics on my SmugMug site. I've started with the most recent years and will work my way back. Its a matter of spare time.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mr Sunshine on October 31, 2008, 11:55:59 am



Same here, I don't do ride reports, instead, I prefer pics with short blurbs under each. You took a lot of pics (a few need to be rotated).

Where was this taken?
(http://burgifamily.smugmug.com/photos/322778520_MdKw4-M.jpg)




Cinque Terra.  We didn't have the bike anymore at this point.  We took the train down from Zurich to Luzern (where my Great Grandmother is from) after we dropped off the bike.  Then the next day we took the train to Genova and then transferred to the milk train to Cinque Terra.

I was trying to remember which town this one was and I ran across almost the same picture on Wikipedia.   :lol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Italy.Cinque.Terre.Manarola.2.jpg


In doing this trip we did the very first International ST.N meet in Arabba, It.  We meet up with Ant and his friend Gareth (hope I spelt that right).  Those are the two bloks you see in some of the motorcycle shots.



Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mr Sunshine on October 31, 2008, 11:57:36 am
On helpful hint from me.  If you are going to be driving or riding around....bring a GPS with European maps if you can.  We bought a Garm just for this trip (well we wanted it for other things but a good excuse) and really that made life sooooooo much easier its hard to express how.  


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on October 31, 2008, 12:21:35 pm
Cinque Terra.


Can you easily walk from one town to the next and do they have a mini-train to get you about?


In doing this trip we did the very first International ST.N meet in Arabba, It.


Yes, I noticed from your pics that you were in Arabba. I was in the area at that time, but somehow things didn't work out.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on October 31, 2008, 12:31:57 pm


Can you easily walk from one town to the next and do they have a mini-train to get you about?

There is a train that runs along the coast.

I think I remember reading that it's an hour or so between each town and you'd have to be pretty fit to try to walk all 5 towns in a day.

I think they recommend you hike a couple of hours, then find lodgings in one of the villages, then exploring the village before continuing on the next day.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mr Sunshine on October 31, 2008, 10:08:24 pm


There is a train that runs along the coast.

I think I remember reading that it's an hour or so between each town and you'd have to be pretty fit to try to walk all 5 towns in a day.

I think they recommend you hike a couple of hours, then find lodgings in one of the villages, then exploring the village before continuing on the next day.


We started at the southern most town and tried to make the northern most.  It was mid to up 90's and very hi humity.  We didn't make it. We made the 4th town and then took the boat back.

Rick Steve's puts the record at around 5-6 hours to do the entire walk.  Its not flat...its pretty up and down and at times you are on the side of a cliff.  It was there I made the comment about personal responsability and how this trail would never exist in the States.   :lol:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Guy on November 02, 2008, 10:27:47 am
So what is the best second language to have in Europe? I'm thinking of taking either French or Spanish lessons, and was wondering which might be the most useful in Western Europe.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on November 02, 2008, 10:49:33 am
So what is the best second language to have in Europe?


English.

As a first language, it depends where you will be touring. German gets me by in Germany, Austria, most of Switzerland and in Süd Tirol, northern Italy.

Along borders, there are usually people that speak the languages of neighboring countries, especially in the tourism industry.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on November 02, 2008, 11:10:15 am

So what is the best second language to have in Europe? I'm thinking of taking either French or Spanish lessons, and was wondering which might be the most useful in Western Europe.

one of the Romance languages since their similarities mean that one who speaks Spanish can get the basics of Italian, Portuguese or French.

you may not be able to hold a conversation, but you can get the gist of what's being said.

Spanish or French are probably yer best bets.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: dtor on November 02, 2008, 12:07:44 pm

So what is the best second language to have in Europe? I'm thinking of taking either French or Spanish lessons, and was wondering which might be the most useful in Western Europe.


If you're going to France, French; Italy, Italian. Not saying that you need to be fluent, but that you should have a smattering of each, or enough to get what you need, politely. In both those countries, a little goes a long way towards gaining the respect and cooperation of whomever you're talking to. The most useful second language for the rest of Europe is German. German will get you by in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Benelux, Scandinavia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovenia, and parts of Northern Italy.

I don't think Spanish would be much help, except, of course, in Iberia.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on November 02, 2008, 05:54:27 pm
There is a train that runs along the coast.


When we were in Cinque Terra, we stayed south of La Spezia in a nice place called Portovenere. For a day trip, we rode up to Manarola and parked at the train station. Took the train one stop north to Vernazza, then walked along the cliff route back to Manarola. It was very pleasant, both villages were very picturesque harbour towns. We were back in Portovenere before dark. Nice.


Title: Cinque Terre
Post by: dtor on November 02, 2008, 07:29:53 pm
I would take the train to see the Cinque Terre. They really don't want vehicles in any of the middle towns. I rode down a very steep one lane paved road to Vernazza, only to find a barrier and a small parking lot. The idea was that you parked, walked into town, found lodging, walked back uphill, showed proof you had a room, rode down to the hotel, unloaded, rode back up to the lot, parked bike, walked back down to your hotel. Right. The way out was the scariest paved road I've ever ridden. Blind hairpins because of trees, such that once you committed to the turn, you were completely fucked if another vehicle was coming down the hill.



Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on November 02, 2008, 08:19:59 pm


I don't think Spanish would be much help, except, of course, in Iberia.

I get by with Spanish in Italy  :D


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: dtor on November 03, 2008, 07:40:36 am


I get by with Spanish in Italy  :D


They must know that you're a made guy.


Title: Re: Anyone interested in shipping?
Post by: yotes65 on November 05, 2008, 04:25:12 pm

This has revived an idea that I had a while ago. To save the hassle and expense of renting a bike, why not ship a bunch of bikes in a shipping container and use them for a tour? If a group of riders could agree on some dates I think this could be very cost effective. I want to do a European trip next year so if any others are interested I will gladly investigate rates etc. It would be good to have an idea of numbers because I imagine the rates are cheaper if the numbers are greater.


Greetings Gang,

I know the above quoted post is a few years old, and I'm reading thru this thread again to see if anyone happened to have found out any info & the cost to shipping one's own bike over. I know GR recommended to check out Knopf Motorradreisen however their page seems to be going thru some changes at the moment.

Thanks,

Marty


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: yotes65 on November 05, 2008, 05:55:08 pm

You should consider getting Microsoft AutoRoute 2007 (under $40 from Amazon). Its the European version of Streets & Trips. I could send you some routes.


Hey Alex,

Could you send me some of the routes as well? my email is [email protected]

Thanks!

Marty


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on November 05, 2008, 06:11:41 pm

Hey Alex,

Could you send me some of the routes as well? my email is [email protected]

Thanks!
Marty



Marty, I don't have any routes generated and saved for MS AutoRoute 2007.

I meant I would generate some routes for first timers based on where they planned to ride.

I have started to include maps to where some of my pics were taken. See my 2008 Euro Tour page...link below. I don't know how useful it'll be, but I've often wondered where some of the pics I've viewed on other people's sites were taken as so many fail to include informative captions.

http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/gallery/6076732_5fUPd#381221654_CwSjs

I've also included GPS coordinates for some of the pics as well. Its all a work in progress.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: ride4adventure on May 04, 2010, 09:15:28 pm
Alex:

I am heading over to Europe this summer and spending 2 - 3 weeks touring the Alps.  starting in last week of June)

I will be following similar route as offered by Edelweiss Tours,  Germany - Switzerland - France
Italy - Austria.

My question is, do you really need to book your accommodations ahead before heading over there.
I hate being tied down to a schedule and make up my itinerary day by day.

Have you done any camping on your previous trips around the Alps?

Thanks

Brian
Ride4Adventure


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on May 04, 2010, 09:23:30 pm

Alex:

I am heading over to Europe this summer and spending 2 - 3 weeks touring the Alps.  starting in last week of June)

My question is, do you really need to book your accommodations ahead before heading over there.
I hate being tied down to a schedule and make up my itinerary day by day.


So you'll be there till mid July. You should be OK. I'll be there till July 11th.

I've never booked any accomodations in my 15 years of touring there. I have called the odd place where I have stayed before just to let them know I'm coming, not that it was necessary to secure a room.



I hate being tied down to a schedule and make up my itinerary day by day.


Same here which is why I could never go on an organized tour.



Have you done any camping on your previous trips around the Alps?


No, for various reasons.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: ride4adventure on May 08, 2010, 07:29:10 pm
Alex

Thanks for the travel advice.

I am really looking forward to this trip.


Cheers

Brian


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: yotes65 on May 08, 2010, 11:44:46 pm

Alex

Thanks for the travel advice.

I am really looking forward to this trip.


Cheers

Brian



We want to see Pictures & a Ride Report when you return... Have a Great Time!


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on August 13, 2010, 09:56:59 am

We want to see Pictures & a Ride Report when you return... Have a Great Time!


I'd like to see them as well (linky to photo hosting site...maybe), as well as hear what another first-time rider has to say about his experience riding there.


On a parallel note, my long time friend and his wife joined me for two weeks on a rental motorcycle.

This is how lucky they got; the Grossglockner with crystal clear skies from horizon to horizon...
(http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Motorcycle-Tours/2010-Alps-Motorcycle-Tour/P6050021/937498673_n7jbV-XL-1.jpg)

And I took them on some interesting out of the way back roads...
(http://edelweiss.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Motorcycle-Tours/2010-Alps-Motorcycle-Tour/P6250160/938062866_Lk6fE-XL.jpg)



Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 06, 2013, 09:59:33 am
It was time to update some pricing.

I still have to update the Maps post (2nd post on this thread) as well as the Maps info on my SmugMug site.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: GvG on July 06, 2013, 06:28:17 pm

Updated: July 06, 2013
....
The cost per liter varies from country to country and generally costs more on the autobahns and autostradas, then in towns and back roads. In June of 2013, gas per liter ran me between €1.564 for Super 100 in Austria to €2.104 for Super 100 in Italy. Super 95 is the lowest grade available and most stations have phased it out in favor of Super Plus 98. Up to 102 grade gas is available.
 .....

I've never heard of or seen 95 being fased out. All stations have 95 and diesel and might have 98/100/102, CNG or LPG.
Especially in Italy it's hard to find stuff with ratings higher than 95.

95 (average price on 20 June in Euro's)
Austria 1.390
France 1.533 (E10)
Germany 1.565 (E10)
Italy 1.742
Slovenia 1.484
Switzerland 1.403


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 06, 2013, 06:37:22 pm
I've never heard of or seen 95 being phased out. All stations have 95 and diesel and might have 98/100/102, CNG or LPG.


95 is available, but many of the stations I've been to didn't have it and would carry Super Plus 98 and 100. Then some stations will not have 98 or 100. But I come across 98 more often than not.

Especially in Italy it's hard to find stuff with ratings higher than 95.


I just filled up with V-Power (100) in Rovereto. A lone gas station in the mountains might not carry it.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on July 08, 2013, 01:10:07 am
And I've seen nothing but 95 here, with a random smattering of 98 at some stations...

Still have to remember that green =/=diesel here  :crazy:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: GvG on July 08, 2013, 03:44:32 am



95 is available, but many of the stations I've been to didn't have it and would carry Super Plus 98 and 100. Then some stations will not have 98 or 100. But I come across 98 more often than not.



I just filled up with V-Power (100) in Rovereto. A lone gas station in the mountains might not carry it.

Well I'll be seeing it in August (I'll be going to Germany, the Czech Republic, Slowakia, Austria and Italy) but it would really surprise me to not find 95 everywhere. That is unless all the flooding had an effect on fuel supplies. And since almost everone uses 95 (or diesel) that would be sold out before the 98/100/102.

And I'll also be :eek: :bigok: if I suddenly find more than 1% of the pumps in northern Italy have higher ratings than 95, since that is always a problem for me in Italy when I trailer my bike there (my car requires 98 or higher).


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 08, 2013, 08:47:27 am
And I'll also be :eek: :bigok: if I suddenly find more than 1% of the pumps in northern Italy have higher ratings than 95, since that is always a problem for me in Italy when I trailer my bike there (my car requires 98 or higher).


Don't worry, unless you are in a town of a few homes or buildings, you'll find 98 or 100, the latter in larger towns. Depends on the station and location. I only fill up with 98 or 100 when there.

Do carry a slew of smaller bills (€10, €20, €50) for the automated gas stations that are either not manned or are closed from 12h to 15h during lunch. That isn't always an issue in larger towns on main roads. Use the smaller bills for partial fills as they do not return change.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: GvG on July 08, 2013, 11:29:56 am
Last year in Aosta (35,000 people) I gave up after 7 pumps didn't have it. And that's in line with previous experiences in northern Italy.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on July 08, 2013, 01:33:57 pm

Last year in Aosta (35,000 people) I gave up after 7 pumps didn't have it. And that's in line with previous experiences in northern Italy.


Didn't have what?

Livigno, Sterzing, Rovereto, A4 Autostrada all had Super Plus 98 when I filled. I keep a trip fuel log with locations and grades.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: mingo on March 22, 2015, 12:24:32 pm
Reviving a very informative thread, I have a couple of questions.

I'd like to get your input on a good location to stay for a week, and go out on day trips from there into the Alps, and then move to a another town and stay there for around a week and explore riding in the Dolomites region.

Is it better to go in May / June or September?

Thanks for all the info.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: PatM on March 22, 2015, 03:30:11 pm
Late May is low season and you may find some of the higher passes closed. Lots of hotels and restaurants in the more touristy areas also may be closed.
Last year we stayed in Courmayeur on May 30th and the place was deserted. And all the higher passes, like the Stelvio and the Gavia were also closed.
Other than that, it's a great time to ride the area as the roads are deserted. 8)
I've never been there in September but have been told it's much busier.

Have a great trip.

Sent from the Great White North through Hyperspace communication


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on March 22, 2015, 05:12:52 pm

I'd like to get your input on a good location to stay for a week, and go out on day trips from there into the Alps, and then move to a another town and stay there for around a week and explore riding in the Dolomites region.


OK, so as I understand it, you want to spend two weeks in total in the Dolomites, but in two locations. As small a region as the Dolomites are, there are plenty of roads to ride and it can take quite a bit of time to get places, so that is a good idea.

I've stayed in Canazei, Arraba and Agordo in my years of touring there. And also Kötschach-Mauthen and Tröpolach in Austria on the Italian border.
I would pick Canazei or Arraba on the west end and a town further east, in fact Tröpolach. The latter will give you a chance to ride the Nockalmstrasse and the passes on the Austrian-Italian-Slovenia borders.

Places I stayed at: Hotel Olympia in Arraba and Gasthof Winkler in Tröpolach, both motorcycle friendly hotels packed with riders.

You might want to break your stays into 4 day periods instead and place them at the points of a triangle.

Note that 400 kms is quite a long day on the smaller narrower roads and 600 kms can be a killer.



Is it better to go in May / June or September?


For 19 out of my last 20 years touring there, I have always gone from the last weekend in May till the middle of July. Last year I went from the end of June till just past mid August and unless I have to, I would not go at that time again due to the increased traffic and increased vacationers. So June and the first half of July are best. I've never been in September but I would not hesitate to go then.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: mingo on March 23, 2015, 08:09:42 am
Thanks for the detailed info about the Dolomites. Sorry I wasn't clearer; I wanted to do about a week in the Dolomites, to which you provided me with very good info and a week closer to the Alps. I will aim for June. I'm not too concerned with doing Stelvio, it's not that great of a riding road. But Gavia is fantastic and I also have to hit Passo Pennes (Penserjoch) again.

I was thinking of finding a small town in south Tirol on the Austrian side to do day rides thru the Alps.

I was also looking for a guide book and found this one:

http://www.amazon.de/dp/3765462039/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3W4PB0893N0X3&coliid=I1GHYPL1NUPAYS

but it's only available in German. Any other suggestions?



Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on March 23, 2015, 10:07:51 am
I was thinking of finding a small town in south Tirol on the Austrian side to do day rides thru the Alps.


Two places I've stayed at:

Serfaus is high above the valley road and quiet. Good access to passes near the Austria/Italian border but mainly for those in Vorarlberg and Tirol.
Hotel Maria Theresia (garage parking)
http://www.motorrad-hotel.com/en/tirol/hotel-garni-maria-theresia.html

Livigno, a duty-free zone...cheap gas to fill up daily. Good access to Bernina, Albula, Julier, Maloja, Splügen, San Bernardino, Gavia, Ofen, Fluela, Stelvio passes.
Hotel Garni Francesin (garage parking)
http://www.francesin.it/

As for books, I have those to see where I've been and for the memories. For planning and finding the great roads, I have always used detailed maps with a scale of 200 000:1 or better. And found many more great roads not in any books.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: bucktownbilly on March 23, 2015, 10:56:01 am
Ton of great info in this whole thread :bigok:  I'm gonna try to do an eastern Europe trip next year, been talking about it too long.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 23, 2015, 02:00:06 pm

I was also looking for a guide book and found this one:


I was given this book (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=motorcycle+journeys+through+the+alps+and+beyond) and while I haven't studied it, the few times I've browsed through it look promising.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 23, 2015, 02:01:36 pm

Ton of great info in this whole thread :bigok:  I'm gonna try to do an eastern Europe trip next year, been talking about it too long.

We're leaving for Romania in just over a month - I'll try to take notes  :cool:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: mingo on March 23, 2015, 06:13:22 pm
Thanks for the most helpful info and the link to the English book.

I've toured Alto Adige/ Sud Tirol but the price differential in fuel* between Austria and Italy makes it preferable to use Austria as my homebase, plus south Tyrol isn't really Italian, as evidenced by signs I saw last year "SUDTIROL IST NICHT ITALIEN".  :lol:   (*I paid $32CAD for 12 liters of fuel, OUCH!!)

Thanks so much! Now all I have to do is figure out where to rent a bike from, Milan or Munich. (The Frankfurt outfit listed in this thread will allow you to pick up and drop off in Munich at no extra charge.)

p.s. Another option is shipping my bike to Munich by Air Canada. Currently, Air Canada's air freight for motorcycles is $700CAD each way, Toronto to Munich. I don't know if there are any additional fees at the airport in Munich to retrieve the bike, other than buying green card insurance.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Orson on March 23, 2015, 10:32:02 pm
Agostini in Mandelo Del Lario rents Guzzis  :cool:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: FJR-UK on March 24, 2015, 09:37:38 am
... plus south Tyrol isn't really Italian, as evidenced by signs I saw last year "SUDTIROL IST NICHT ITALIEN".

It took me a while to figure out which phrase book to carry to the dining room. As a rough guide: German in villages, Italian in towns/cities.  :facepalm:


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: GvG on March 24, 2015, 02:38:21 pm
September is generally better weather wise and all the high passes are open, but May/June is less crowded (although September is nowhere near as bad as July & August).


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: PatM on March 24, 2015, 05:42:15 pm
My Italian friend tells me that they all speak Italian. They will speak Italian to other Italians, and German to tourists.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on March 29, 2017, 11:21:43 am
I haven't been to my own thread in a few years. Sorry, I've been busy.

I haven't updated pricing as a result, but the bottom line still is, you can't beat self guided for many reasons; costs, freedom, etc.

This June will be my 23rd year in a row touring Europe and the Alps on my own and I'm still not bored of the place, how could anyone be.
Since then, I have played tour guide to some friends and even had a few people go self guided thanks to this thread.

So if you are on the fence thinking about it, do it. You may be six feet under next year.


Title: Re: Alps Motorcycle Tours - Priced Right
Post by: Global Rider on March 04, 2020, 02:13:02 pm
Well 2019 was 25 straight years riding Europe and the Alps. Where does time go?

And when you have done it that often, you tend to ride many of the same roads again; certainly no regrets.

A few additions to my regular tours have been visiting the Porsche museums, the factory museum in Stuttgart and the private museum in Gmünd in Kärnten as well as having been to the private residence of Porsche's summer retreat.

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Museums/Porsche-Factory-Museum/i-Hmh3jxc/0/7ce426c3/XL/IMG_7043-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Museums/Porsche-Factory-Museum/i-LxdZSzd/0/652f5635/XL/IMG_7109-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Museums/Porsche-Factory-Museum-2019-07-02/i-DGDBZhp/0/3589354c/XL/1964%20Porsche%20904%20Carrera%20GTS%20-%202-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Museums/Porsche-Factory-Museum-2019-07-02/i-pJDzHsQ/0/3d1debc3/XL/1970%20Porsche%20917%20KH%20Coup%C3%A9%20-%201-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Museums/Porsche-Factory-Museum/i-GCbCLqt/0/4e704c4a/XL/IMG_7121-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Museums/HP/i-F2FDCJp/0/af8226c5/XL/1997%20Porsche%20911%20GT1%20-%201-XL.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cars/Museums/Porsche-Private-Residence/i-g4gfkHW/1/2d6695a4/XL/IMG_9066-XL.jpg)


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