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Topic: Starting Issue on a 2005 Triumph Daytona 955I (RUNNING AGAIN!!!)  (Read 10277 times)

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« on: April 11, 2008, 05:06:33 pm »

Starting Issue on a 2005 Triumph Daytona 955I, I purhcased it a week ago from the original owner, he had just installed a new battery.  When I went to look at it he was just installing the new battery.  He cranked it over for a min and it started right up.  I brought it home and took it out for a few short risdes (about 9 miles in total.).  I went to start it this afternoon and it is just turning over, tried with no throttle and then with a little, still no fire.  The battery drained down so I charged it up again, still no fire.  I can hear the fuel pump come on when I turn the key on, the temp is about Plus 8 so fairly warm for Saint John, New Brunswick (Canada) so t shirt weather.

The bike has only 2500 miles, oil was recently changed and had the 500 mile tune up before he put it away for the winter.

I love this bike but a little upset at it at the moment, my 04 Shadow will start in -30 weather.

Any suggestions, only thing I can think of would be the plugs (but cant see them going just like that??

Thanks

Shane
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 11:02:15 am by MOLLINS » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 08:06:48 pm »

Since you just bought it.............

You are holding the clutch lever in when you try to start it aren't you? There is an interlock, the fuel pump will prime but the engine won't turn over until you pull the clutch in.

If not that, maybe recharge the battery or try and start it with the Honda's battery if possible. If it cranks but won't fire maybe it's flooded?

...then I'm afraid you have to dig into it.
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 10:28:10 pm »

I'd guess it's now flooded.  Pull the plugs, etc.  I'd also slow charge the battery over night.  When taking short/slow rides keep in mind that the alternator doesn't charge below about 2500 rpm.
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2008, 11:12:33 pm »

also, in case you don't know

Triumphs are cold blooded compared to other bikes

It's one of their "interesting" quirks.

chack you r battery connections, make sure the plugs are good (not fouled)

and NEVER touch the throttle when starting.
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 07:47:03 am »

Will try that, I was holding the clutch lever in, but I think you are right, it maybe flooded.  It more then likely has the original plugs in it. The battery was fully charged, when out this morning and same thing.  Will pickup plugs this week and give it a try.  Thanks and will advise on progress
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 08:38:26 am »

If I remember correctly one is to start the 955's with no throttle.  
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 09:04:39 am »

Correct. No throttle when starting. If you think it's flooded, use wide-open throttle (hold it open exactly one time, no on/off) and crank. Be prepared for it to catch and have to manually keep it at a sane RPM for short bit as it warms. Never had any starting issues on my 955 Sprint RS. Plugs are a PITA to get at. Bodywork off, tank off, airbox off, coils out, just to get to the plugs.
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 11:29:39 am »

That was actually my next question, easiest way to access the plugs.  I tried it a bit ago and could smell gas, but no fire.  Worst thing that could happen is bike will get a few extra coats of wax while working on her.
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2008, 12:16:06 pm »

A few other quick questions, I noticed when I turned the key on you can hear the fuel pump running for about 3 sec.  After that the fuel light comes on beside the neutral light, does that stay on till the bike is started like the oil light, I cant recall when it was running last if it came on or not?  I checked the manual butit didnt mention it, only stating it comes on when there is less the 4 ltrs of fuel in the tank?

The tank is full of supreme gas ( about 6 days ago, almost to the top.  Is there a fuel shut off (Petcock on this bike?)  I did have to wash it a few days ago, but had it running afterwards without any issues.  

Wondering if the gas smell I am smell when starting is just from the tank and not actually flooded.  I check but couldnt find anything on a fuel shut off valve or reserve valve on the internet.

Thanks

Shane
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2008, 01:01:26 pm »

I had a starting issue with my 955i (2004). Here is the cure. Load it onto a truck, drive it to your closest dealer, and have them attempt to start it. It will fire right up making you look like a moran.

However, since you said it had a new battery - check the connection. Take them off and reconnect them. Just might fix the problem.
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2008, 09:53:59 pm »


A few other quick questions, I noticed when I turned the key on you can hear the fuel pump running for about 3 sec.  After that the fuel light comes on beside the neutral light, does that stay on till the bike is started like the oil light?

Shane


Yes. Good luck, hope it's just plugs. I think once you get it sorted you'll be fine. My RS has started fine after sitting out all night at or slightly below freezing.
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« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2008, 12:12:01 pm »

Here is what the '05 955i instrument panel should look like with the key on but the bike not running.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc8/paulinskill/lights.jpg

Note low fuel, check engine, and temp lights all on. Temp gauge will read lo or sometimes a random value.

Coming from jap bikes which fire up in less than a second, the 955i took some getting used to.

1. The bike does not like to start with a low battery. If you don't ride it frequently (particularly in winter) keep it on a battery tender.
2. NEVER open the throttle.
3. If it doesn't start in 3-4 seconds, turn the key off wait a second, turn it back on and wait for the pump to prime again. I've never had to do it more than three times.
4. With the engine cold and cold temps say <45 F it will take a few seconds of cranking to start.
5. On a warm engine or with a warm day it should start in under 2 seconds.
6. Don't leave the key in the parking light position (all the way counter-clockwise). Even a few hours like this will kill a battery (believe me I know). I think this is the dumbest feature Triumph has come up with since it is natural to turn the key all the way then pull it out.
7. You might blow a fuse trying to crank the bike with a weak battery. I forget which one but it will be obvious if you check them. This happened to me after breaking rule #6. Once charged the bike will run normal but the battery will not be charging. After a few miles the instruments will go funky and the bike will stop. It took me two days to track this down. The bike is not easy to push.

Getting to the plugs is not trivial. If you go this route be very careful removing the center screw of the air box or you will spend the next few hours playing find the nut. This is the procedure I use. Remove all of the bolts around the perimeter of the box. Now loosen the center bolt a turn or so but no more. Then while pulling up on the air box lid remove the center bolt. Alternatively very carefully turn the bolt without applying downward pressure or you will push the nut out of its socket leading to hours of find the nut. To prevent the nut from getting lost in the future after you remove the air box bottom, seat the nut by screwing the bolt all the way in then squirt some silicone sealant into the conical hole in the air box bottom. This probably doesn't make much sense until you remove it and see how its designed.

General comments.
1. Memorize your VIN number. Unlike most manufacturers Triumph changes thing mid-year so go by the VIN number not model year to determine the correct parts.
2. Order the Service Manual form BikeBandit. Again it goes by VIN number.
3. The Tuneboy is great for seeing /resetting error codes and changing fuel maps.
4. The stock suspension is OK but no great. A correctly sized after market shock (oh say Penske), front spring to match your weight, and correct set up will totally transform the handling. Steering will become effortless and it will rail quite nicely. Unless you are taking it to the track the stock fork internals are fine until repairs are needed then you might as well swap them out.
5. Bleed the break lines at least once a year or when the front break starts to feel soft, which ever comes first. Stainless lines also help too.
6. The SkyKing seat release assembly is the best money you could spend on the 955i. http://skykingproducts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SP&Product_Code=Item-903-1&Category_Code=TR_DAY_02
7. You can pack all the tools you could possibly want under the pillion seat.
8. Sargent makes a very comfortable seat. http://www.sargentcycle.com/triwsday.htm.
9. The paint will scratch if you look at it wrong.
10. A slightly taller wind screen is nice in the winter.
11. The electrical system can handle a GPS, sat radio, and heated jacket just fine.

The 955i is an excellent commuting and/or touring bike . A top rack is nice if you can stomach the look. Personally I find it a small price to pay for all round convenience. Soft bags work OK, but cover the body work with protecting film or you will scratch the plastic beyond repair.

Dave
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« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2008, 06:25:34 pm »

Thanks Dave, much appreciated.  I decied to tak ethe battery out and give it a real good charge, I was charging it for a few hours then trying it, which after several times cranking killed it very easy (I found when it was getting low the motor still turned over fine however the guages statrted blinking), when I stopped pressing the starter button they were fine.  Going to the bike dealer in the am while working and will hopefully track down the plugs (around here the closest Triumph dealer is about 6 hrs away, but if need be will have them shipped up.  

Had a few friends come look at the bike today and they loved it, I have never scene another Daytona, more or less a triumph in this area, so nice to have a different bike.

Will advise on the updates, again thanks for all the info.

Shane
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« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2008, 10:29:34 pm »

The ECU will malfunction long before the motor won't crank. If the gauges are funky you are screwed since the battery voltage is too low. If its the original battery its time for a replacement. Replaced mine last fall.

Plugs are NGK CR9EK or NGK CR9EIX for iridium. I went with iridium but can't say for certain it made a difference. You should be able to get them at most bike shops.

I've seen exactly one other 955 Daytona on the road in the past two years and have yet to come upon another 675 Daytona. I think the 675s are all at the tracks. In contrast you can't shake a stick without hitting a Sprint ST. Those poor ST owners don't know what they are missing.

Dave
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2008, 12:57:24 pm »

Unless you're certain that the battery in not the original and has been replaced within the last 2 yrs I'd recommend you replace it.  Triumph's system is quite sensitive to low voltage.  In addition to making sure that the terminals and connections on the battery are clean and tight, be sure that the ground is clean and tight as well.
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2008, 11:01:37 am »

Very happy to report THE BIKE IS RUNNING

After taking half of the bike apart to install the new plugs, put it all back together and it fired up the first time.  Put a few miles on it this am and it is running like a charm.

The plugs were $15.99 each X3 and worth every penny when I heard her come back to life.  I was able to get the plugs at Car Quest, none of the bike dealerships here had them in stock.

Not sure what caused them to faul with so low miles (2000), but they are still 3 years old I guess.  I may pickup a spare set to keep under the seat just to have incase I am on a road trip and run into the issue again.

Thanks again for everyones suggestion, info, etc it was much appreciated!!

Shane
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2008, 12:51:00 pm »

WOO HOO! Bigok Clap Banana Beerchug
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2008, 02:35:24 pm »

Now get out there and ride that beast!!!
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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2008, 02:46:07 pm »

Way to go  Chili
The thought of you getting out there on your Daytona even brought a grin to my face.

Dave
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