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DaleFranks
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« on: February 10, 2015, 12:52:08 pm »

I've found the one thing with the Triumph Trophy that irritates the shit out of me: The radio constantly goes tits up. About every fourth of fifth time you turn the bike on, it completely forgets how to find the stereo system. Then you have to open the battery cover, disconnect and reconnect the negative terminal, which resets the system, and replace the battery cover.

It's like driving an old Jaguar with its Lucas electrics. The constant fiddling to make something that should just work is enraging. How can the electrical connection to a frickin' radio be a problem in 2015?
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 12:54:08 pm »

Maybe you should have gotten a Kawasaki or Yamaha.  Lol  
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 01:00:24 pm »

You may be right. I never had a problem with my FJR.

Well, except the ignition switch issue that stranded me before the recall.
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 01:17:00 pm »

Well you know the old Cliché......

British Motorcycles are much like British ladies - Best ridden in England.
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2015, 01:18:48 pm »

In all seriousness, I don't know how something could be so screwy with modern electronics.  I know I had issues with the "infotainment" system on my 2011 VW Touareg and after trading that in for another SUV, I had similar problems with my current "infotainment" system.  Until I shut off the vehicle and restart it, the radio (any audio) wouldn't work.  I never had to go as far as a "cold" boot by disconnecting the battery.  I'm sorry to read you're having these problems.  
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2015, 02:31:55 pm »

As a software guy, these stories make me  Headscratch.

When I was first in the software game, I worked for a commercial software house. Call it arrogance or hubris or just plain street cockiness, but we didn't ship buggy crap. We just didn't. It was a small team in a small company and our shit just worked, 100% of the time. Not once, ever, did we have a bug that wasn't simply a reaction to some kind of hardware issue (back when one memory chip could be bad and not be actually accessed but once every few months on a big data sort or something).

Nowadays, the crap I see passing as "professional" software just makes me shake my head.

And honestly, it sounds like your issue, Dale, is more software/firmware than hardware related. Shrug

I don't have any answers... just commiseration.
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2015, 03:05:38 pm »

Chris,
I would say that we are ALL beta testers for everything, but anymore they don't even beta test.  They just release the product and if you are lucky they replace it if something goes wrong.
Let me reemphasize, that is hardware, software, bikes, cars, everything.  Maybe it's the pressure to get it out on the market before the other guy, don't know.  
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2015, 05:14:35 pm »

That's why it's call "The Great American test fleet!" Lol

(I did work with Jaguar!!! for several years!! They (the English guys) told me the reason Englishmen like warm beer, is because Lucas also made the refrigerators!)
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2015, 05:31:12 pm »

Warranty item?!
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2015, 05:41:16 pm »

With the current product shelf life being very short, no one can do a proper beta test anymore.
And the sad part is with every new version or new product, old problems that were fixed years ago reappear.
Manufacturers don't keep their design/development teams anymore. Once a product is launched, they're gone. Problems are fixed by a maintenance teams and their fixes often aren't included in the new product by the new design/dev team.
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2015, 06:18:07 pm »

Why haven't you taken it to the dealer?
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2015, 07:11:14 pm »

I already have taken it to the dealer, once.
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2015, 07:51:12 pm »


As a software guy, these stories make me  Headscratch.

When I was first in the software game, I worked for a commercial software house. Call it arrogance or hubris or just plain street cockiness, but we didn't ship buggy crap. We just didn't. It was a small team in a small company and our shit just worked, 100% of the time. Not once, ever, did we have a bug that wasn't simply a reaction to some kind of hardware issue (back when one memory chip could be bad and not be actually accessed but once every few months on a big data sort or something).

Nowadays, the crap I see passing as "professional" software just makes me shake my head.

And honestly, it sounds like your issue, Dale, is more software/firmware than hardware related. Shrug

I don't have any answers... just commiseration.


This is what happens when shipping schedules trump testing schedules.
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 12:05:01 pm »



This is what happens when shipping schedules trump testing schedules.


Get used to it, it won't change any time soon.

Like many here, I'm a software engineer. Our industry is changing, and not for the better (I'll refrain from writing a book about what I'm seeing). I'll suffice to say that we CAN create perfect, bug-free, complicated and intuitive software, but the market isn't willing to pay or wait for it. Therefore, we make compromises.

Just like Triumph radios. Or cheap suspensions on otherwise great bikes (FZ09) or lurching FI (2006-2007 FJR1300) or useless seats. We know they can do better, but then they can't sell it at a competitive price. Software is the same, maybe more so, as it's usually much easier to fix software after-the-fact than wimply shock absorber shafts.
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2015, 01:07:53 pm »


I already have taken it to the dealer, once.


And they said what?
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2015, 06:31:39 pm »


And they said what?


That it was all reset, and should work fine. It doesn't.

Now we'll see what they say Saturday, after I take it in again.

I'm thinking of just installing a master battery switch... Lol
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2015, 07:22:06 pm »

I can understand them thinking it was fixed after one try.  Those things happen.   If the dealer is any good they will keep it long enough to be sure it's fixed the second time.

Good luck.
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2015, 07:32:50 pm »

Why are British motorcycles so fast? They have to get home before dark.  Lol

Good luck with the dealer but this sort of stuff plagues us all with our modern vehicles. The infotainment center on many vehicles is suspect. My Acura TL has a parasitic drain every once in awhile... and off I go to the Acurazine forum to find the first cheap fix to do. Have you checked the Triumph forum?
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2015, 09:33:03 am »


Why are British motorcycles so fast? They have to get home before dark.  Lol
 


 Lol   Lol   Lol   Thumbsup

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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2015, 09:44:30 am »




That it was all reset, and should work fine. It doesn't.

Now we'll see what they say Saturday, after I take it in again.

I'm thinking of just installing a master battery switch... Lol

I learned a couple things when I owned my Triumphs.
#1 Never buy a Triumph unless you have an excellent dealer nearby.  (They actually have some of them too)
#2 Triumph in general and especially Triumph USA sucks.
#3 Most of the time the good things on a Triumph offset the bad.

Oh, caasland, not trying to be an a-hole, but in 30+ years of dealing with software, I have yet to see ONE bug free program.  That's IMO another urban legend like old time vets saying they remember when they could leave their wallet on the bunk and find it undisturbed.
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« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2015, 04:45:39 pm »

I have a '13 Trophy and have had the same issues. There was a software update that was to take care of this issue. Since mine was updated, I have not had the problem return. Make sure you have the latest when visiting the dealing again.
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2015, 04:53:00 pm »


I have a '13 Trophy and have had the same issues. There was a software update that was to take care of this issue. Since mine was updated, I have not had the problem return. Make sure you have the latest when visiting the dealing again.


+1

And some dealers do not seem to know about it.  I had to tell two dealers.  I think sports touring bikes are not big movers for them.
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 08:00:12 am »




+1

And some dealers do not seem to know about it.  I had to tell two dealers.  I think sports touring bikes are not big movers for them.



I have been fortunate to have enjoyed solid dealerships with all my bikes (Triumph, BMW, Guzzi, etc.), but the most common theme in owner dissatisfaction regardless the OEM is this lack of "knowledge". How hard can it be to care enough to use their diagnostic equipment, service bulletins and if nothing helpful is found to then do a simple google search of "XYZ model XYZ problem forums". It aggravates me when better communication and detailed information is available on line from riders rather than within authorized service channels.

Good Luck with this, no excuse for repeat trips with a known fault and proper fix is available.

Cheers
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« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2015, 08:16:46 am »

It boggles my mind that OEMs and dealership employees don't monitor web forums for the various brands/models they sell to stay abreast of owner issues, fixes, and tweaks.
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2015, 09:20:56 am »


It boggles my mind that OEMs and dealership employees don't monitor web forums for the various brands/models they sell to stay abreast of owner issues, fixes, and tweaks.


I have used information from an online forum (Acurazine) to leverage the dealer (Acura) to give me a goodwill replacement. No dealer is going to give you anything unless you hold their feet to the fire with data. Even if they know about it they may not be forthcoming. Knowledge is power.

But I'm not sure how the big companies allocate their marketing dollars - that is, how much to the motorcycle divisions of Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and BMW get? And then how much of that could be allocated to monitoring forums?

When it comes to Ducati, Triumph, KTM, Moto-Guzzi, I'm not sure they have the manpower/computer power/sophistication to comb the internet.

Of course for that sport-touring market, they wouldn't be coming here for any marketing insight. Who the hell could ever satisfy this bunch especially when trying to build that 'middleweight' sport-tourer?  Lol
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« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2015, 09:37:50 am »


It boggles my mind that OEMs and dealership employees don't monitor web forums for the various brands/models they sell to stay abreast of owner issues, fixes, and tweaks.

Garry, I comprehend exactly what you are saying, and have been frustrated many time when I know of a problem and the dealer doesn't know anything about it.  I have been lucky to have very good dealerships, except for my FJR (lots of dealers, just not any good ones LOL) and have talked to them on this subject.  After those conversations, I understand their point of view much better.  To make a long story short, they don't trust forums that much for a couple of reasons.  First, forums tend to have what is statistically a small number of problems blown into major catastrophes.  It's hard for them to determine if it is a "real" problem.  Second, there are a lot of people with too much time on their hands regurgitating things they have "heard" about and not having enough mechanical horse sense to evaluate the validity of the problem. Almost the same as the first, what do you believe.   Here is an example problem that I am sure you are aware of.  There was a time when a bunch of Triumphs had issues with the brake lever travel adjustment.  At the time I was on at least 5 different Triumph forums and they were all jam packed with misinformation.
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« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2015, 10:21:44 am »



Garry, I comprehend exactly what you are saying, and have been frustrated many time when I know of a problem and the dealer doesn't know anything about it.  I have been lucky to have very good dealerships, except for my FJR (lots of dealers, just not any good ones LOL) and have talked to them on this subject.  After those conversations, I understand their point of view much better.  To make a long story short, they don't trust forums that much for a couple of reasons.  First, forums tend to have what is statistically a small number of problems blown into major catastrophes.  It's hard for them to determine if it is a "real" problem.  Second, there are a lot of people with too much time on their hands regurgitating things they have "heard" about and not having enough mechanical horse sense to evaluate the validity of the problem. Almost the same as the first, what do you believe.   Here is an example problem that I am sure you are aware of.  There was a time when a bunch of Triumphs had issues with the brake lever travel adjustment.  At the time I was on at least 5 different Triumph forums and they were all jam packed with misinformation.

+1
As a former car dealer tech, I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. In fact, forums are little more than entertainment in many cases. I use a Chevy HHR as my business vehicle. I found a forum for HHR owners. These folks are nuts! Most of 'em treat the car like it's some kind of exotic classic car. Minor glitches turn into a crisis. Something major fails, out of warranty, and they want GM's CEO's head on a stick. A major accomplishment for them is painting the dash panels a "custom" color.
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« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2015, 10:56:09 am »


It boggles my mind that OEMs and dealership employees don't monitor web forums for the various brands/models they sell to stay abreast of owner issues, fixes, and tweaks.


As an owner, would you be willing to pay someone hourly wages to surf the internet? Given the expectations of wandering "off point" how could you be sure you were paying them for work and not personal stuff?
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« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2015, 04:55:58 pm »


+1
As a former car dealer tech, I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. In fact, forums are little more than entertainment in many cases. I use a Chevy HHR as my business vehicle. I found a forum for HHR owners. These folks are nuts! Most of 'em treat the car like it's some kind of exotic classic car. Minor glitches turn into a crisis. Something major fails, out of warranty, and they want GM's CEO's head on a stick. A major accomplishment for them is painting the dash panels a "custom" color.

Yap... if you read VFR1200 forums, you might believe that the bike runs like shit and has zero bottom end... until you stick a $59 thingamajig on the gear position sensor wiring (which you can duplicate by rewiring yourself for $0), and all of a sudden the bike is tranformed into a world class power machine.  Rolleyes  Not only that, any owner with any sense at all should just skip the $59 thingamajig and send their ECU to get reflashed for $300.  

I've had mine for going on 3rd yr now, and never once did I feel the need to do any of that.
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« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2015, 08:12:05 pm »


It boggles my mind that OEMs and dealership employees don't monitor web forums for the various brands/models they sell to stay abreast of owner issues, fixes, and tweaks.


Bonjour.
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« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2015, 09:35:39 pm »



As an owner, would you be willing to pay someone hourly wages to surf the internet? Given the expectations of wandering "off point" how could you be sure you were paying them for work and not personal stuff?


Yes, absolutely, especially when they are just sitting on their asses on weekdays when traffic is slow. Their job is to know their product inside and out and if spending some time on the internet learning about owner's concerns is what it takes, then do it. In fact, if I were an OEM, I would create a job position whose sole function was to surf the web harvesting info from end users and (if they were brave) to interact with said customers online.

There is no shortage of bitching on bike forums about clueless sales people and service managers that know less about the products they sell than the end users.
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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2015, 10:57:19 pm »

Mechanics should be mechanicin'; not surfin' Faceplant and Pintrest.

Parts dudes have free time but often wouldn't know the mechanicin' part to understand what to look for and how to apply it if they found it. Same with sales and owners.

If mechanics want to clock out as mechanics and clock in a clerks @ minimum wage, then there's that.

Otherwise, just like the rest of us in fast-paced professions, do it on your own time. Companies quit paying for my continuing education and time to keep up with changes in tech somewhere in the mid-90s.

The difference is that we can focus on our bike of interest and dig deeply while they have to be generalists and end up with a wider but shallower knowledge of trends and changes.
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« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2015, 12:11:04 am »

Just a comment.  IMO, most of the "good" mechanics and "good" salesmen do use the net and a lot more to keep themselves informed because they want to, not because they are paid to.  It's their passion, like most of us.   Nobody can read all the forum stuff on all the bikes.  Single brand shops are kinda rare nowadays.
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« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2015, 12:21:23 am »

It well and truly gets up my nose listening to all these complaints people are making about the reliability or the mechanical fitness of their bikes components, warranty claims for fairly menial problems, etc.
 Come on get real, bikes have never been more reliable, powerful and comfortable and just a joy to ride. Some of us remember that when planning a ride we had to think about not just getting there but will we get there. Sitting out on the side of the road chasing an electrical fault or repairing a broken chain on a cold and frosty night, not fun. Solid state electronics, o'ring chains, heated grips are so much nicer.
 Personally I have never had to make a warranty claim on any of my new bikes nor have any let me down mechanically or electrically since the late 70's, maybe it's because I treat them kindly, keep to the maintenance schedule, don't ride them like I stole them and do all servicing myself so if anything goes astray there is no one to blame but myself.
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« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2015, 05:06:45 am »

Who needs a calender? Clearly it must be February.
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« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2015, 05:46:18 am »

Month of the year doesn't come into it where I am, I ride all year, all conditions on 3 different bikes so I don't have the time to waste bitching about dealer support, warranty problems or have I got the latest ECU upgrade.    
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« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2015, 09:02:33 am »


It well and truly gets up my nose listening to all these complaints people are making about the reliability or the mechanical fitness of their bikes components, warranty claims for fairly menial problems, etc.
 Come on get real, bikes have never been more reliable, powerful and comfortable and just a joy to ride. Some of us remember that when planning a ride we had to think about not just getting there but will we get there. Sitting out on the side of the road chasing an electrical fault or repairing a broken chain on a cold and frosty night, not fun. Solid state electronics, o'ring chains, heated grips are so much nicer.
 Personally I have never had to make a warranty claim on any of my new bikes nor have any let me down mechanically or electrically since the late 70's, maybe it's because I treat them kindly, keep to the maintenance schedule, don't ride them like I stole them and do all servicing myself so if anything goes astray there is no one to blame but myself.

Your either extremely lucky or don't fully realize how your new bike is "designed" to run like.  My new Sprint ST would die at 900 ft of altitude.  They completely checked my fuel system but had to replace the ECU.  Sprints, Tigers, S3, and early 676's had loads of brake caliper and master cylinder issues.  The quick disconnect issues had to go to NTSA because Triumph refused to admit it had a problem.  The fix changing to plastic QD's was BS.  Over the years FJR's had all kinds of electrical issues.  The bottom line is that most bikes do run reliable and well; however, if YOU are in the group were they don't, how well it is fixed reflects more on the manufacturer than the individual bike.  Not sure what Triumph USA is like now but when Peter Carleo was in charge of Customer Service, it flat sucked and so was his idea of what Triumph's responsibility to the buyer was.
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« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2015, 09:06:21 am »

Lol yes it is winter regardless of whether one can ride or not.
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« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2015, 12:17:00 pm »


Over the years FJR's had all kinds of electrical issues.


Really? I'm aware of Gen 2's of 1 or 2 years have a ground joint (spider) problem that was resolved by yahama (warranty recall?). What were the others?
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« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2015, 05:37:50 pm »




Really? I'm aware of Gen 2's of 1 or 2 years have a ground joint (spider) problem that was resolved by yahama (warranty recall?). What were the others?


Other than the Spider, not many that I know of. This is the actual list of issues as posted on the fjrforum.

FJRF001 - Valve Ticking / Premature Exhaust Valve Guide Seal Issue (Gen I Bikes) (Fixed since 2006)
FJRF002 - Throttle Abruptness Issue (Gen II Bikes)
FJRF003 - Ignition Failure (Gen I and II Bikes)
FJRF004 - Altitude Sickness (2006/2007 Bikes)
FJRF005 - Ignition Switch Issue (2006-early 2009 Bikes)
FJRF006 Throttle Position Sensor (2005 Bikes)
FJRF007 - Touring Trunk Stress (2003-2007 models)
FJRF008 - Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT) Issue
FJRF009 - Intermittent Ground Wire Connection "Ground Spider"
FJRF010 -
FJRF011 - Fast Starter Syndrome
FJRF012 - Front Brake Switch Recall (2011)
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« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2015, 06:10:02 pm »

I was aware of some of those but it seems that the CTT was an issue addressed with an upgraded part. The original wore but it was a wear item to begin with. The "spider bite" was the biggie as it affected actual people in actual numbers. Seems everything else was very low % of actual bikes; worth being aware of but not in high numbers.
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« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2015, 08:16:25 pm »




Really? I'm aware of Gen 2's of 1 or 2 years have a ground joint (spider) problem that was resolved by yahama (warranty recall?). What were the others?

Yes, I probably went overboard on the "all kinds" but they did have IMO too many electrical problems on what is otherwise an extremely reliable machine.  It is what I would call a minor issue relatively speaking unless your the guy sitting on the side of the road trying to get home.   Lets go to the design and eventual recall of the ignition switch.  At least that one could be fixed in the field if you knew how.    Running way too much current through the ignition switch would burn them out.  Piss poor design.  Then there were the ECU issues on '07's.  Those were more like a PITA, not lethal.  What makes you think the ground spider issue was solved?   Yamaha did a GW Bush and declared a victory on that one.  The Gen III's still got the same setup that caused them.  Collecting multiple grounds like Yamaha does in its harness is far from a good design.  That's still a topic of discussion with people with some electrical background.
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« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2015, 03:08:24 am »

Well, I think it's fixed. It turns out that the Trophy didn't have the newest firmware update installed. They applied it two weeks ago, and it's been working ever since.

So now that the minor teething problems appear to be fixed, everything is working fine, and I just rolled over 1300 miles since I got it on 3 Jan.
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« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2015, 04:03:08 pm »

Good for you. Always like to hear of a happy ending to a potentially frustrating mechanical/electrical issue.
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« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2015, 10:28:28 pm »


Well, I think it's fixed. It turns out that the Trophy didn't have the newest firmware update installed. They applied it two weeks ago, and it's been working ever since.

So now that the minor teething problems appear to be fixed, everything is working fine, and I just rolled over 1300 miles since I got it on 3 Jan.

Dontcha just love electronics  Lol  They are live by the sword, die by the sword stuff.  I had my Tiger 1050 blink out at the STN National in Lewisburg a few years back.  A short in my tail light knocked out a fuse, intermittently left me stranded in the middle of nowhere.  But when all is said and done, I'll take programmable  ECU's and the electronics any day.
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« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2015, 11:11:59 am »


Well, I think it's fixed. It turns out that the Trophy didn't have the newest firmware update installed. They applied it two weeks ago, and it's been working ever since.

So now that the minor teething problems appear to be fixed, everything is working fine, and I just rolled over 1300 miles since I got it on 3 Jan.


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