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Topic: Alpine Riding and You  (Read 6122 times)

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RBEmerson
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« on: July 31, 2016, 06:22:27 pm »

I was lucky enough to recently spend a week riding in the Austrian, Italian, and Swiss Alps. It was a chance to put into practice what I knew as well learning new techniques. I'll start with the bike and start to deal with turns in part 2.

Riding on the flat is easy. Twist the throttle, you go. Hit the brakes, front and back, and you stop. Easy-peasy. It's getting off flat roads that things change. And the changes aren't small details.

Every object has a center of gravity. If you toss something in the air so that it spins. It will always, always, always spin around its center of gravity. If you put an object on a pivot point, right on its center of gravity, it will be perfectly balanced. There are ways to move the center of gravity around on a bike. Load up a top case with books and the CG (center of gravity) will move up and back. With less weight on the front tire, the bike will feel a little squirrelly. It'll be more inclined to tip over. Not Good.

The center of gravity drops if you're standing on the pegs. Think about it. All 5-6 feet of you may be well above the the road, but most of your weight is on the pegs. And, because the pegs are fairly low on any bike, the CG is moved downward. The bike will be less likely tip over, and you can move the bike around, under you, to do some very good things (see part 2, coming soon).

Here's a bike heading uphill.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/05d5a743-15c4-41f5-b808-73e9d4279096.jpg

What matters in this drawing are two things: The arrow pointing down and the distance, from where that arrow meets the road, between the tires. The arrow extends from the bike's CG and it will always, always, always point straight down, towards the center of the Earth (feel free to read Isaac Newton's take on gravity or just believe me). Back to going uphill.

The arrow is closer to the rear wheel. That means there's more weight on the rear wheel than when riding on the flat. So what, right? Not quite.

Grab a handful of front brake and the odds are it'll either lock up or trigger the ABS much sooner than expected. As should happen. There's less weight on the front wheel, so there will be less effective braking. But there is a good alternative - the rear brake. The rotor in the back may not be as big as the rotor(s) up front, but that isn't a major problem. There's more weight on the back tire so it can do braking more effectively. If you're heading up a hill, any hill, not just an Alpine road, your rear brake is your best friend. As the bike slows, of course you can add some front brake. Inertia, the description of why things try to keep moving even when hitting the brakes, causes the CG to temporarily move forward, adding weight to the front tire, which now can help with braking. But remember to begin stopping with the rear brake alone.

Here's another application of that. Stopping while going uphill. You come to an intersection with a stoplight. The road you're on is going uphill. Keep the rear brake set hard while you're waiting for the light to change. Put the load up front and it'll be harder to hold yourself in place. When the light changes, ease the clutch, twist the throttle and let go of the rear brake at the same time  - an uphill takeoff isn't quite as exciting as before. OK, that's three things at once. practice it on a gentle slope and, when you're good with that, take it on the road.

Going downhill...
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/ee5ffb06-4694-4920-88af-799bb8d58824.jpg

This time the arrow is closer to the front tire, so the front brake gets all of the job of braking, right? Wrong! Why?

Grab a handful of front brake and the bike will slow down. So far, so good. But... three things happen that you don't want. First, the front suspension will start to collapse from all of the weight on it - it's doing its job but any bump in the road may bring the forks against the stops. But, with the weight now on the front tire, the tire's more likely to start washing out or skidding out of the line the bike's traveling on. That means this won't be just a "garage drop". And worse, the back end of the bike, with far less weight on it, won't brake well and, worse, the odds are the back end will try to pass the front end (inertia is forcing the weight in back to keep on moving as best it can). In short, CRASH! This is an extreme example, but a very real, more high probability event than you might think. And the steeper the grade, the higher the chance, by betting on the front brake, your day won't end well. Now what? Go to your BFF the rear brake.

Getting on the rear brake means there won't be any end swapping (the front end's inertia wants to keep it going forward), the front forks will compress less, which means you have some relief from bumps in the road, and the front wheel can't wash out, either. Simply put, the bike is far more stable relying on the rear brake. But, yes, you can give it some help up front with a light hand on the front brake, after the rear brake has begun its work. Once again, begin stopping with the rear brake alone.

This works anywhere there's a grade. The steeper the grade, the more it matters.

ADDED: What about gearing down while descending? It's OK when not braking, but apply the rear brake and the rear wheel is likely to lock up or trigger the ABS sooner than expected. The motor's braking is dragging against the rear wheel/tire, much as it would if the brakes were applied. Add real braking on top of that, and the rear tire will soon be overloaded. Instead, touch the brakes enough to keep speed where you want it. When it's time to really slow down (maybe for a turn?), get into the rear brake and release the front brake until the rear brake is fully in charge.

Ride safe!

EDIT: A few comma faults and a couple of typos were corrected, and a bit of tightening has been added. The overall content remains the same.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 06:06:26 pm by RBEmerson » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2016, 06:23:27 pm »

Introducing Freddy Farkle...
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/1eb7b260-bf48-4e76-bd11-6b608effe887.jpg
Even as a stick figure, Freddie is AGATT. (OK, it was late last night when I came up with Freddy - I swear I wasn't drinking or smoking - honest) Freddy's riding a BMW K75 because finding a head-on drawing or picture of a bike is close to impossible, even with Google working hard. Freddy gets to be Old School with this K75.

After dealing with going up and down hills, it's time for turning. The object here isn't to explain the quick way down the road, but the "improve your chances of coming home" way. Keith Code and a host of other sources can do the quick way. Nonetheless I'll suggest getting this way nailed down before heading off to go-fast land. Moving on...

There's really nothing exciting here. Freddy's sitting up, weight centered over the bike, and the bike's going straight down the road. The load on the tires is also down the middle. That's the band of grey in the middle of the tire.

As I said in my Alps RR, I made a complete mess of coming up Stelvio Pass (48 hairpin turns designed to keep you amused), and dealing with the turns. It really was awful, and not a little scary on occasion. When I got to the top, the guy who was leading the group said, quite rightly, "you were sitting on the bike like a rock, you didn't move at all." Again, he was right. So what kind of movement can be useful? I'll start with the usual, riding down the road turn. Assume the bike's moving along at... what, 35 MPH? The speed doesn't matter so much as it's above about 15 MPH. Take it as a given, for now.

Here's Freddy in the process of turning to the right.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/a913e7bc-a9ba-4ffb-b6d6-52b60c7eb8f8.jpg

Working from the top down, Freddy's holding his head level so his vision is square to the road. That is, his head isn't just sitting like a lollipop on a stick (ooohhhh bad analogy - sorry, Freddy) If your head isn't level, your sense of depth perception and general visual awareness is thrown off. We're used to walking or standing with our vision level to the floor or whatever. Tilting just isn't what we're used to.

Freddy is actively leaning inside the turn or leaning into the turn. Which is not the same as just sitting on the bike like a rock. Moving inside the turn causes the bike to lean a little less (the CG has been moved around to the inside of the bike - I'll spare you all the arrows and dots needed to show that). What's the point in doing this?

Remember that inertia amounts to anything moving in a straight line will keep doing so. Until something tries to change that. Like the front tire begins to move in a way that makes the bike start to turn. That means there's an overall force tugging the bike into moving in a straight line. (This is the same that happens with spinning a bucket, with a hunk of rope tied to the handle, around - this is centrifugal force) All that counts here is something is trying to make the whole bike want to slide sideways from the turn.

The tires' friction keeps the bike from skidding out - on pavement. Loose gravel, sand, dirt, cow flops, oil, grease... tires don't grip them as well. And mentioning cow flops isn't a joke. Ride around any area with cattle (or horses) and expect to find brown stuff on the road.

There's a budget for friction - just like a bank. Overdraw the bank account, you're broke. Overdraw / overload the tires and you're skidding. Neither overdrawn or skidding is desirable. In general, the less the bike leans for a given turn, the more friction "money" is in the account at the First Bank of Friction.

All those wonderful things that I mentioned, gravel, etc.? The tires are more likely to skid or slide in a direction you don't want. Get on them, and your bank balance dropped without you doing anything. Time to think seriously about leaning into the turn a little more than on regular pavement. That is, get the bike standing up more, so it's further from friction bankruptcy - skidding.  

Freddy is leaning into the turn to allow the bike to stand up more than it would if Freddy were a rock on the saddle. If Freddy leans out of the turn, the bike wants to lean into the turn more. But this isn't always bad news.

Freddy is trying to move around in a parking lot, reduced to riding at a fast jog.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/fd4b52d4-9597-4651-afaf-56f4af3b1dd7.jpg

Freddy goes to turn right to avoid someone standing in the middle of the parking lot road, busily texting. Freddy's head remains level, as it did in that 35 MPH turn. But now he's leaning outside of the turn. That makes the bike lean into the turn more than it would otherwise. Freddy moved the CG further to the inside to get the added lean. I just finished saying avoiding more lean is a good thing. So why is more lean OK here?

The added lean is about making tight radius turns work best at low speeds. Keep the bike upright, and you're fighting that big contact patch on the center of the tire. Lean the bike over, and the bike is riding on the tread inside the center-line of the tire. Doing that makes turning to the side much easier. If some is good, more's better. Freddy moves to the outside of the turn, the bike leans over more, ready to turn. Twist the handle bars in the direction you want to turn and... there's the turn. Done right, turning around on a street can be done with a with a simple U-turn instead of a K-turn, heading to the edge of the road, backing up, and then hoping not to run off the side of the road.

But there's a gotcha. Keeping a constant speed when moving below about 15 MPH becomes a problem. Rather than hope you can use the very end of the throttle's travel to keep speed constant, try this. Let the motor spin faster than you might think it should. Ease the clutch in and out, feathering it with gradual motion, not just dumping it or pulling it in. If you still move faster than you want after feathering the clutch in, back to your BFF from hills: the rear brake. In the end, you'll be using some throttle to get moving, the clutch to reduce the motor's pull, and the rear brake to slow the bike. Just as you're feathering the clutch, not pulling it fully in or letting it fully out, the same applies to the rear brake. Ride the brake, easing up to avoid slowing too much, using more brake if the speed creeps up.

Find the empty parking lot every bike discussion mentions. It's out there somewhere, I'm sure. Try the throttle, clutch, brake mix while moving in a straight line. With a little practice, you'll be able to come to almost a full stop, with the bike balanced, before you need to put your feet down. After going straight works for you, start with slow easy curves or wide radius circles. Work on going left and right equally. And remember to stay outside of the bike. Without this, slow speed riding is messy and frustrating. K-turns stay K-turns, and don't become U-turns.

What about my account at the First Bank of Friction? Won't it be overdrawn with all that lean? No. The bike is moving slowly enough that the pull trying to skid the bike outward is, practically speaking, gone. You can spend a lot of Friction Bucks leaning over without going broke. But do keep in mind, the more you lean and the slower you go, the greater the chance of doing a drop. Which is why I recommend gradually working your way into this slow mode. If you get to the "uh, a drop will take paint off this pretty bike" point, stay at that point, practicing it, and maybe, just maybe trying to stretch the limit a little further. It can be a very gradual process.

The next step is picking a line to get around a curve with. Curve? You want curve? I got curve!
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Alps/DSCF2196.jpg

Yes, some of Stelvio's turns are as tight as the one the camper is approaching, and the one after it. The one in the distance, beyond the red car pulled to the right, is easy by comparison. Would slow riding skills apply here?

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Alps/DSCF2194.jpg
Line through a curve matters? If you're on the wrong line, letting it all hang out, and this white box comes at you as you start or are in your turn, maybe a better way to manage things might be a good thing?

Ride safe!

EDITED: Cleaned up the usual typos, comma faults, etc., and tightened up some wording.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 08:38:20 pm by RBEmerson » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2016, 06:24:36 pm »

This is where all the parts come together. What the Alpine roads did for me was to concentrate the things discussed in this series of posts. I know not everybody is lucky enough to sample these roads, but there are roads, closer to home, that make these demands. Think about your riding and you'll certainly come up with some slopes, turns, and sloping turns that can use what's here. And what's here works on any piece of road that isn't straight and level. Even cloverleaves on and off of Interstates, etc. call for what's here.

For instance, there's a straight as an arrow road a few miles from here that demands the braking skills I mentioned. It's steep enough that, over time, the asphalt paving has turned into a washboard from hard braking by cars and trucks. Use the front brakes heavily and the front end compresses (the bike's tilted downhill by the steep grade). With the front end approaching the end of its travel, there's little absorption left to deal with the washboard bumps. Which means that, coming off the top of the bump and the front brake gripping, the front wheel will slow down, hit the next bump with a bit of skid and, in general, stopping won't be as quick and reliable as expected. Using the rear brake takes some of the load off the front end, allowing some use of the front brake without compromising the front suspension. Again, use the rear brake heavily, but do use the front brake, with moderation, to get the shortest stopping distance possible. Is the proportion of front and rear braking that gets the stopping done well.

Back to pulling things together....

This is a hairpin turn (like the ones in the pictures) and the line Ronny Racer (sad name, I know) might take through the turn:
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/4702d68e-f980-4366-845b-1d68ca2d2c96.jpg

Not a work of art, and I have no doubt racers and track day fans can find no end of fault here. But the basic point is that, to make this turn work, the line has to cross the road center line at the start and finish of the turn. If the bike is moving at any speed above, using the speed limits given earlier, above 15 MPH. But typically, someone using this line is going to go, or try to go, faster than that.

What's wrong with doing that? Remember the camper taking up the road? Move it to  somewhere near the turn and Ronny's going to have an exciting time. And his speed and line leave him with almost no options for avoiding the camper. If he's lucky, he might be able to squeeze between the camper and the outside of the turn. But if there's a car on the camper's tail, as would happen as those cars, in the picture, close up as the camper hits the brakes. Ronny now has to get lucky with what's behind the camper. And if there's a bicycle coming down, betting on the same gap appearing...

This sounds like all of the doom and gloom scenarios we all heard in high school drivers ed movies. My response at the time was "yeah, yeah, yeah - you're just saying this to scare me." But I have personally witnessed Ronny Racer moves. The good news is that I never had to call the police to show up with body bags in an ambulance. See my RR for the episodes with the angry stupid riders, for example. Look at the videos I've posted and you'll see people with lines that swing them in front of traffic. I think I posted a Richy Vida video of climbing Stelvio - some of his lines are worrying but... Another of his videos doesn't have a Stelvio climb coming out so well. I leave you to find the video if you want - search YouTube with "Richy Vida Stelvio". I'm presenting real occurrences that aren't hard to find, not "once in a lifetime" events.

Ronny Racer gets lucky, doesn't meet anything hard, and goes on his speedy way. Bye bye, Ronny. What's Freddy Farkle supposed to do?

He meets a left turn that climbs up.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/61f7b43a-cf22-4a9d-b3c2-1ac2ce44c357.jpg

Before getting close to turning, Freddy quickly "checks six" in the mirrors. Is anyone gaining on him, trying to pass, or just hard on his tail? He looks to his left and up the hill. What's coming downhill? A bicycle towards the side of the road isn't a problem. A motorcycle coming down might be, if the rider swings wide in the turn. A car is probably not good news, a camper is really bad news, and a bus or truck is a whole new matter. Good news, Freddy owns the road - nothing coming or gaining.

Freddy's in the middle of his lane (yes, the arrow says middle of the road - so I'm not a draftsman). Freddy's going uphill and might want to back off his speed a bit - or not. Do it before starting the turn. Remember the First Bank of Friction and your Friction Dollars account? Braking in the turn means withdrawing Friction Dollars for braking and for turning. Which means you have fewer Friction Dollars available if you need to tighten the turn, deal with some rock dust in the turn... I think you get the idea. Remember, too, that going uphill takes more throttle than coming downhill (well, ain't that a surprise). Backing off the throttle slows the bike more, going uphill, than downhill.

If you want to back off for the turn, that's OK. Keep in mind that any turn generally works better if you carry a bit of throttle into the turn and add more as you leave the turn. Which means, when backing off, try not to close the throttle completely. Practice is what will tell you how much backing off and carrying throttle works best in different turns. I suppose there's some math formula for all of this. Do road practice - it's easier. And it's riding. Woohoo!

Remember Freddy leaning into turns to keep a healthier balance at the First Bank of Friction? It's time to do it here, too. If he's moving along at somewhere around 15 MPH or above. Bad news. Freddy's stuck behind a clueless car (they're so much fun...) or a camper or a bus. They may be moving, but not very fast. In the turn, Freddy now needs to be outside of the bike. And he needs to think about what's following stopping altogether or, worse, backing up. I've seen more than one car take a curve late and wide and... stop to keep from stuffing a corner of the car into a wall or a barrier. Same for buses. And remember that the surface on the inside of the turn may drop away enough to make putting a foot down a waste time. Think about putting down the outside foot first.

Doing a U-turn in Easton, PA, on a sloped street, my left (inside) foot went down on thin air. "All" I broke was the highway light sticking out on the left side, and I scraped some "tupperware". So much fun to have a Kawasaki Concours land on my leg. So nice to be riding with someone who helped get it off my leg. So nice to be able to only need to just shake it off.

Freddy checked six - nobody's on his right as he moves towards the outside of the turn. The plan is to follow the outside of the lane around the complete curve, moving back to the center of the lane as he finishes. Light throttle coming in, more throttle coming out. Done right, the bike will feel like it's on rails. Really. I don't get that with every turn, but when it happens, it feels so right.

While Freddy's letting the bike come into the turn, his head is level and, importantly, he's looking down the road, beyond just the center barrier or grass strip. Looking at the front tire isn't going to do anything good. If the wheel comes off, you'll know it. You'll see the small rock, the patch of gravel or sand when you look down the road, and have plenty of time to adjust the line. If you're not screaming through the turn, avoiding something in the road, by tightening or moving inside, is easier. You know it's there because you look where you're going, not where you are. Bikes go where you look. It's that simple.

There's no rock in the road, there's something across all or part of the road. Now what? Carrying moderate speed, looking ahead, all make either dodging or stopping less risky. How far do I look down the road? I try to initially look as far around the inside as possible. If a wall, or trees or whatever blocks the view, there it is. As I come around the turn, though, I look further and further ahead. At a minimum "always look at least where you're bike will be in three seconds" is a good rule. If I can continue to look further, even while turning, I'll do it. Surprises on the road often aren't good things. Looking ahead avoids surprises. Finally, this is not the fast way of getting through turns or down the road. It's the way that improves the odds of coming home without a "change your shorts" moment.

OK, Freddy went uphill, to the left, in a tight turn, and did it well. Let's send him downhill and to the left.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/85f11d5a-322e-48e6-b1ee-bff8683689e3.jpg

It doesn't look any different than uphill and left, does it? The line's the same. Why even talk about it? The difference is how the bike is managed.

Coming down any slope, full throttle is probably not a winning strategy. But neither is gearing down to the point where the engine's screaming. It's not going to improve engine longevity. But it also does a significant withdrawal from the First Bank of Friction. The rear tire is working hard at holding the bike back. Go for the rear brake, and the Friction Dollars will disappear from the bank and... overdrawn. Instead, leave the motor in a gear where it's not screaming, carry a bit of throttle, and tap the brakes occasionally to keep things right. Lots of bucks in the bank!

Freddy sees the left turn coming up. The first move is to look downhill, towards the road coming up. Will he meet, bikes, cars, campers, or buses? No surprises up front - what's in back? The mirrors show Freddy owns the road again. He eases to the outside of the lane as he did going uphill He probably closes the throttle and taps the rear brake to scrub off some speed. Remember that getting on the front brake compresses the front suspension, adds braking loads to the load, on the front tire, from turning. And the First Bank of Friction sends you a reminder that your account is getting low. Let the rear brake do most of the braking and use the front brake for fine tuning.

Freddy looks ahead, around the turn, looking further ahead as he goes. He keeps his head level and goes inside or outside of the bike, just as he did going uphill. As he begins to move into the turn, he should come off the brakes and maybe add a touch of throttle, too. Why? Because turns literally scrub off speed. The friction from any braking and/or turning will slow the bike. Releasing the brakes and adding a bit of throttle recover the speed lost in the turn, and, again, can give that "riding on rails" feel that says the turn's going great.

Here comes the fun part. Freddy's left turns look pretty good. But now it's time to go right. Uphill.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/e9e30609-a9f3-4937-875c-9405f8620b03.jpg

Freddy will stay on the inside of the road's center line. He thinks of the center line as "The Line OF Death!". And he's right. Things on the other side of the center line are probably coming towards him. That can't be good. "But there's nothing coming!" That may well be so but... "You ride like you train". If you get into the habit of crossing the center line when the road seems to allow it, it's easier to cross the line any time. "You ride like you train".

He looks uphill for surprises, and he checks six for surprises. He owns the road - life is good.

This time, getting rid of some speed is a very good idea, especially if it's a tight turn like the one in the drawing. Ease off the throttle, use some rear brake, and generally bring the speed down because... Freddy's going uphill - the front brake isn't going to be as much help as he'd like. This turn will get tighter as Freddy goes through it. Why?

In both left turns, it was easy to look into the turn, to see what surprises might be coming. Being on the inside lane, looking into the turn is much harder. The best thing to do is move toward the outer edge of the lane but not all the way to it. Here's the hard part - don't turn immediately. Freddy rolls as far beyond the center of the turn as possible, looking inside the turn as he goes. Delaying the turn to look into the turn, he then turns more than just following the outside edge of the lane. And he's adding some throttle as he gets closer to the end of the turn. It's the same thing he did with the left hand turns.

Done right, he'll come out somewhere inside of the center line. Now if he has to swing wide, there's some room to the left or he can tighten the line to the right or inside of the turn. Follow the center line around, and there's no room to widen the turn, except to risk dealing with something coming the other way.

In a really tight turn, it's probably time to move outside of the bike during the turn. If the turn's not as tight, and more speed can be carried, lean into the turn.

What's next for Freddy? Downhill right, of course.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u188/RBEmerson/Turn%20and%20climb/b2b2037c-86c8-4886-9da7-12f6c35a8e11.jpg

As with uphill and downhill left turns, the lines for right turns are the same. It's how the bike is managed, again. After the checks down the hill and behind, the rear brake comes on more and the throttle is closed or close to it. The front brake again fine tunes the braking. Releasing the brakes and adding a little throttle, to recover some of the speed scrubbed off, are all the same as the downhill left. The turn to the right, because it's tighter, will scrub off a little more speed than the left. Adding some throttle to bring the speed back up, as opposed to wait for rolling downhill, is a good thing.

That's it. Linking the turns together, back to back, can be interesting(!) but toss in a little straightaway, to catch your breath and come back to the center of the lane, and... it's all good.

One last topic - putting it on the roads where you are. Hairpin turns are the most extreme turns I can think of. If you've got turning mojo there, you've got it anywhere. Picking a slightly off the wall example, traffic circles can be tight. The line of sight is usually excellent. Unless the local garden club planted tall bushes or the mayor decided to put a mound in the middle of the circle so it shows "Welcome to Dogtown" on the side of the mound. But the business of leaning in or out, looking ahead for stuff in the road, looking back to see if someone just jumped in behind you - that all remains true. Take a road following a stream bed - moving around in the lane, looking into the turn, moving around on the bike, it's all the same. Find a road climbing out of a river valley or over a hill - rear brakes, moving around, looking around. The only thing that changes is the degree of motion - the principles remain the same. Pull it all together and it feels right. Ain't nothin' like good mountain mojo!

Ride safe!

WEASEL WORDS:
I'm not an MSF instructor or anything of the sort. I believe the above advice is correct. This material is based on personal experience and research. Use it or not, as you see fit. If you choose to use the above, you assume all responsibility for any consequences arising from doing so. In short, smack a tree, don't blame me. Have a nice day. Smile
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 08:53:01 pm »

Nice thread!!

Thanks for posting your thoughts !!

I should have read this earlier  Thumbsup
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2017, 12:30:31 pm »

I'm glad you found it useful.  Smile

I haven't re-read this in a while (which I must do)...

If I didn't mention it, David L. Hough and Bernt Spiegel were (and are) big influences. Also, and I think I included this, check out videos of pass riders. Watching the bikes in front of any scene can be ...um... illuminating. As can listening to throttle sounds on open air mics. Lots of trailing throttle well into a turn, for example.

Somewhere I found a bagger making an utter hash of one hairpin, to the point of going "off-road" across the stone and grass marking the inside of the turn.   Two up.  EEK!
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2017, 12:32:43 pm »

And I'll revive the photo links. Oops.

ADDED: Fixed that for me.  Razz
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 01:25:45 pm by RBEmerson » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2017, 09:40:25 pm »


I'm glad you found it useful.  Smile

I haven't re-read this in a while (which I must do)...

If I didn't mention it, David L. Hough and Bernt Spiegel were (and are) big influences. Also, and I think I included this, check out videos of pass riders. Watching the bikes in front of any scene can be ...um... illuminating. As can listening to throttle sounds on open air mics. Lots of trailing throttle well into a turn, for example.

Somewhere I found a bagger making an utter hash of one hairpin, to the point of going "off-road" across the stone and grass marking the inside of the turn.   Two up.  EEK!


Thank you.  Thumbsup

A couple good videos of baggers dissapearing in the weeds between corners at Deals Gap!   Always cracked me up.
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 12:01:10 pm »

I found some typos and punctuation errors, of course. There were a couple of ambiguities and a couple of places were tone was a bit off, but what you saw is about what I wanted to say. BTW, the photos are back up.

I did, however, fail to credit sources. Sigh... Once again, David L. Hough, Bernt Spiegel get big thanks and credit.

I also could have added an account of a demo that has, I hope, begun to improve my riding. In the Edelweiss tour, a senior guide, Marcus, tagged along to see how a newbie, Jonas, was doing. He stayed at the back of the group for all of the way up a pass. However, somewhere along the way, we stopped. Marcus said to me, "You don't like left turns, do you?" I hadn't thought about that. For some reason, yeah, they're not my faves - dunno why. "Follow me" and off we went. Marcus wasn't slow but he moved through the turns like water. Check the videos and you'll see a lot of "now I'm leaning this way - bang - now I'm leaning that way - bang - now I'm leaning this way". Marcus never stopped moving, but it was always fluid. If you watch the really fast boys in races, it's the same thing. The suspension and bike have time to move gradually rather than re-position themselves in a hurry. Which avoids impulses that briefly take the tire/road interface further out in the skid/draft spectrum before coming back to what the rider wants?

Between Marcus' demo and "you sit on the bike like a rock", it gave me a lot to think about. And helped get Freddy Farkle moving...  Bigsmile
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 09:25:36 pm »

We are always learning and will never know it all  Thumbsup
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 10:03:38 am »

Sooooooooooooo true.

But aint't the learnin' great?  Beerchug

(most of the time)
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 01:46:59 pm »

Most of the time

 Thumbsup
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2017, 11:28:20 am »

There is that...
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2017, 02:22:10 pm »


There is that...


If someone is willing to continue to learn they are improving their lives !!   Good folks.
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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2017, 03:46:37 pm »

Kinda like sharks... if they stop moving, they're done.  Bigsmile
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« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2017, 09:07:00 pm »


Kinda like sharks... if they stop moving, they're done.  Bigsmile


Unless your the biggest shark

 Bigsmile
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« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2017, 09:12:39 pm »



Unless your the biggest shark
 Bigsmile


I think he means that since sharks don't have muscles to force water over their gills, if they stop swimming, the die from oxygen deprivation -- doesn't matter how big you are...  
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« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2017, 10:19:14 pm »




I think he means that since sharks don't have muscles to force water over their gills, if they stop swimming, the die from oxygen deprivation -- doesn't matter how big you are...  


Thanks for the Shark Lesson  Thumbsup
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 09:17:59 am »

To be pedantic, nurse sharks don't need to swim to breathe. I'm sure there are other exceptions, but most sharks... if they stop moving, they're done.  Bigsmile
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 02:03:23 pm »


To be pedantic, nurse sharks don't need to swim to breathe. I'm sure there are other exceptions, but most sharks... if they stop moving, they're done.  Bigsmile


You are right.  I looked it up.

Some sharks have to move and some don't.
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2017, 06:48:01 pm »


To be pedantic, nurse sharks don't need to swim to breathe. I'm sure there are other exceptions, but most sharks... if they stop moving, they're done.  Bigsmile



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bRIuf6EtsA


Learned something new..  Thumbsup  
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