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Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
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Topic: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system? (Read 11170 times)
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SWriverstone
The Road Cubist
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Years Contributed: '06, '08, '10
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Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
on:
December 08, 2016, 02:57:25 pm »
Hi Everyone—I've been absent from STN for a long while (work has been insane—so much so that I got a new job starting in January!)
I have a bike maintenance emergency and need your advice:
Took my 2007 Wee-Strom (DL-650) in for overall maintenance last week. The rear brakes were not working at all. Last time I *know* the rear pads were replaced and the rear brake fluid lines were flushed and refilled was in 2013—about 18K miles ago (53K on the clock now). Yeah, probably WAY too long..it's been a crazy past few years of job changes and cross-country moves...so my maintenance has been lame.
The shop called this morning and said my rear brake fluid was BLACK. Then they told me that it was so bad that my ABS pump seized up and stopped working. The odd thing is that while I definitely noticed I didn't have rear brakes when I took it in, my front brakes were working fine—and the ABS light on the dash was still going off as usual after starting the bike. (But I haven't done any hard/emergency stops in a long time, so wouldn't have know whether ABS was working or not.)
The shop says because the ABS pump seized up, the entire ABS system needs replacing—to the tune of $2,000+.
They also said they could just remove the ABS system entirely for $400.
My question for you guys is, does this all sound plausible? Or does it sound like bullshit?
Though I haven't needed it in a long time (knock on wood), I'm hesitant to just get rid of the ABS entirely. (I'm in the "ABS will save my life someday" camp.) But I'm also not thrilled about dropping $2,000 on a bike with 53K miles on it. (Though admittedly the Wee is still running great and not burning oil at all.)
I've got to make a decision here ASAP, so would be grateful for your thoughts!
Thanks,
Scott
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SLK50
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #1 on:
December 08, 2016, 03:30:58 pm »
I'd first look for a used but working replacement
on EBay.
If I thought I could get along without it altogether
I'd consider a bypass of the ABS system. But
that may not be as easy as it sounds.
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Mrs. DantesDame
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #2 on:
December 08, 2016, 03:48:14 pm »
Tell the dealer that you'll get back to them on Tuesday with your decision. Then use this time to hunt down a spare unit, and find a mechanic who will install it for less than the $2000 quoted to you.
Or something like that
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Klaymen
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #3 on:
December 08, 2016, 06:00:49 pm »
I don't know your bike, but I've never had a bike where the front and rear reservoirs ever mixed. Also, I thought ABS only sensed and pulsed the front brakes.
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Jetpilot5
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #4 on:
December 08, 2016, 07:33:11 pm »
Quote from: Klaymen on December 08, 2016, 06:00:49 pm
I don't know your bike, but I've never had a bike where the front and rear reservoirs ever mixed. Also, I thought ABS only sensed and pulsed the front brakes.
I've never heard of an ABS system that only modulated the front brakes, always both front and rear.
A quick look on bike bandit showed the hydraulic unit (ABS pump) as retailing for $2,090, their price was $1,651. That was on a 2009 model bike but probably safe to say the 07 version would be similarly priced. I was surprised because those are more like BMW numbers.
So that said, if the pump is the problem then the quote isn't unrealistic.
If I were you I would find out exactly what they want to replace. If it's the ABS module then get in touch with
https://modulemaster.com/rebuilds/
They do ABS module rebuilds and guarantee their work. Most rebuilds are around $250. Lot's of BMW guys have used their services. If they can take care of you then it's up to you to do the work or see if your dealer or some other mechanic is willing to do the install. I too would be hesitant to spend $2,000 on a ten year old 650 with that mileage.
Good luck.
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SWriverstone
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #5 on:
December 09, 2016, 02:08:32 am »
Thanks Jetpilot5—unfortunately, I called Modulemaster today—and they said they could NOT help me with my V-Strom.
Clearly this doesn't happen to people often. (Maybe because nobody around here keeps a bike with ABS as long as I have? LOL) Nobody seems to have a clue about ABS systems and the ABS pump.
I'm FLOORED that a freaking ABS pump costs 25% of the total cost of the bike when new. (WTF???)
I've always heard and assumed that the brakes on a bike with ABS will work perfectly fine if the ABS is switched off (or if the fuse is pulled). The shop almost sounded like they were suggesting that my rear brakes won't work at all *because* the ABS pump is broken...which makes no sense to me.
It sounds like the shop is just trying to make a buck by telling me they have to charge $400 to completely remove every vestige of ABS system from the bike...which sounds like overkill to me...
Scott
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iXXion
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #6 on:
December 09, 2016, 05:19:21 am »
Wow....anything about brakes makes me pretty skittish. Black brake fluid matters. I'd suggest not riding the bike, selling it to me for $500, and keeping it stored out of the weather until May when I can pick it up.
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garry
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #7 on:
December 09, 2016, 06:39:11 am »
As I suggested on FB, I would start with new rear pads and flush the rear brake system really really well. Be sure to clean up your brake caliper pistons when changing the pads. Then evaluate where you are with them. The rear brake may work fine. ABS may or may not work, but I suspect you'll have rear brakes again.
My 1190 is my first bike with ABS. While I'm glad I have it, I trust my ability to modulate brakes on my own. Been doing it that way for 30 years.
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Skee
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #8 on:
December 09, 2016, 09:56:32 am »
Quote from: garry on December 09, 2016, 06:39:11 am
As I suggested on FB, I would start with new rear pads and flush the rear brake system really really well. Be sure to clean up your brake caliper pistons when changing the pads. Then evaluate where you are with them. The rear brake may work fine. ABS may or may not work, but I suspect you'll have rear brakes again.
My 1190 is my first bike with ABS. While I'm glad I have it, I trust my ability to modulate brakes on my own. Been doing it that way for 30 years.
Maybe the smartest way to go.
I would think it's important to figure out what fried your brake fluid in the first place. If you don't resolve that, you may have to replace the ABS again.
It's my understanding that ABS on our Wees - unlike BMWs and KTMs - isn't a cornering system designed to work leaned over in a corner when you are likely to want it most. I have slid the rear on my Wee braking unexpectedly mid-corner; what I don't know is if ABS broke the slide.
While I would not want a bike without ABS again; I don't believe an experienced rider is at a severe disadvantage without it.
Just be careful at STN meets; make sure you brought good rain gear!
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PatM
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #9 on:
December 09, 2016, 10:36:15 am »
Seems to me it's a choice between dealer turns the bike into a non-abs for $400 or find a used pump and get it installed for maybe a few more $$. The question is would you trust a used brake part?
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miles
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #10 on:
December 09, 2016, 11:29:10 am »
My thoughts on this are that I've never seen an ABS pump fail in such a way that it only affects one circuit and not both. That strikes me as odd. I guess it may be possible, but odd.
The second thought is about the cost. It's probably a Bosch pump, and therefore the cost is going to be the same as a BMW part, because it will be the same as a BMW part. I would look around and see if any can be sourced from used part dealers. Really, there should be no problem finding one (It's probably the same part number used in many, many bikes).
Third, replacing an ABS pump isn't brain surgery. Any reasonably competent mechanic should be able to do it. If you feel able to replace a brake component such as a caliper yourself, then it really won't be a whole lot more work.
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SWriverstone
The Road Cubist
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #11 on:
December 09, 2016, 12:42:12 pm »
Thanks for the replies all.
What's really complicating things for me is that I don't have a ton of time on my hands to be searching for a replacement pump and doing the wrenching myself (plus my garage is uninsulated and it's 35 degrees).
And the bike is sitting at the shop and I don't have a trailer.
@Miles, if the ABS pump on the Wee is indeed the same Bosch pump that's on BMW's then you're right—seems like a used one wouldn't be too hard to find. I might poke around a bit. (But as you pointed out, I'd have to install it myself_which I'm sure I could do...it's just the time factor...)
I'm also asking myself the question many people with well-loved bikes ask: "What else could go wrong?" The bike has 53K miles—which isn't high (I've heard of plenty of V-Stroms hitting 6 digits), but it's not a spring chicken either. It's currently running perfectly. If I was pretty certain I'd get another 30-40K trouble-free miles out of it, I'd be willing to just drop $2K on a new ABS system (cheaper than a new bike).
But of course the nightmare scenario is dropping $2k on it...then two months later something else huge goes catastrophically wrong...
The bike has been garage-kept its whole life, and I've changed the oil religiously every 3-5K miles and run Rotella-T 5W-40 synth for the entire life of the bike. And it's not burning oil. So seems like it's a good bet to keep going for a long time.
Would the collective agree?
Scott
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miles
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #12 on:
December 09, 2016, 12:54:13 pm »
Well, as far as time goes, your riding season is pretty much over anyhow, right? An uninsulated garage is a bummer, though...
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SWriverstone
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #13 on:
December 09, 2016, 02:45:33 pm »
Quote from: miles on December 09, 2016, 12:54:13 pm
Well, as far as time goes, your riding season is pretty much over anyhow, right? An uninsulated garage is a bummer, though...
I commute daily on my bike—so the riding season is never over. :-) (I live in Oregon, where we're snow-free year-round for the most part in the Western part of the state.)
I called the dealer this morning: they gave me more info this time, and said the whole rear brake system is shot (master cylinder is toast, lines are toast, etc.).
So I asked them if they could leave the ABS system in place (they wanted to charge me to physically strip all ABS components from the bike) and just replace whatever needed to restore normal rear braking. This way I have the option of replacing the ABS pump in the future (e.g. if I can find a second-hand one somewhere).
While I see no reason why they can't do this, they said "We'll give you a call back and let you know."
Scott
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miles
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #14 on:
December 09, 2016, 03:12:24 pm »
That's right- I'd forgotten you'd moved to my old stomping grounds.
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #15 on:
December 09, 2016, 10:39:26 pm »
I think Garry is closest to the mark on this. Time is not on your side but I would buy fluid, pads and take them to a shop somewhere close and tell mechanic to really flush the system and clean up the caliper and reinstall pads after a very close inspection of parts to see why it overheated. Couple hundred bucks.
Don't think I'd trust the $2,000 shop.
ABS "modulates" the pressure. If the front ABS works then why not back? Find some sand or dirt and at five MPH clamp down on the front.
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SWriverstone
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #16 on:
December 10, 2016, 11:13:37 am »
UPDATE: The bike is still in the shop, but I called them yesterday and basically told them to get the rear brakes working normally (new master cylinder, new line, new pads, proper caliper operation, etc.) and give me the bike back with the ABS system intact (even if not functioning).
I found an identical ABS hydraulic unit on eBay from a salvage yard for $150 (the ad says it's "working great." I can only assume they had no idea it's a $1500 part!
So I snatched that up, and after browsing the ABS update in the service manual, realized that removing/installing that unit is no big deal.
So that's the plan! Stay tuned...
Scott
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Mrs. DantesDame
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #17 on:
December 10, 2016, 11:18:45 am »
Goooooo Scott!
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miles
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #18 on:
December 10, 2016, 12:02:43 pm »
Quote from: SWriverstone on December 10, 2016, 11:13:37 am
UPDATE: The bike is still in the shop, but I called them yesterday and basically told them to get the rear brakes working normally (new master cylinder, new line, new pads, proper caliper operation, etc.) and give me the bike back with the ABS system intact (even if not functioning).
I found an identical ABS hydraulic unit on eBay from a salvage yard for $150 (the ad says it's "working great." I can only assume they had no idea it's a $1500 part!
So I snatched that up, and after browsing the ABS update in the service manual, realized that removing/installing that unit is no big deal.
So that's the plan! Stay tuned...
Scott
For the win!
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SLK50
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Re: Shop says ABS pump seized up—$2,000 replacement of ABS system?
«
Reply #19 on:
December 10, 2016, 01:22:06 pm »
"I'd first look for a used but working replacement
on EBay. "
Ahem. Don't make me say I told you so.
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