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« on: December 14, 2006, 10:43:55 am »

I ran across this link in another forum.  Read it and learn.  

http://hondashadow.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39436&sid=c2015067417412a6fd63eaaaf9acc1ce  Sad
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2006, 10:56:54 am »

On a bike all emotions kill.
From impatience to out right euphoria.
That's what I like about riding, you have to have a clear head or you will be on your ASS ASAP!
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2006, 12:14:35 pm »

Good choice for a cross-posting.

This quote from the bereaved widow caught my eye:

Quote
He was simply going too fast for the turn. The stopped car at the traffic light was life's warning for him to slow down. But he saw the car as an obstacle rather than a safety concern and chose to ignore that warning.


This is an important insight for everyone, on multiple levels.

So are her comments on her late husband's dearth of patience.

What can others learn from this event?
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 02:28:19 pm »

Very good reality check of lifes events.
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2006, 03:10:54 pm »

That really is sad.  I've resisted similar urges at times.  Bikes are just so fast that you have to work hard to be 2 steps faster.  I'm rarely impatient on the bike but I've been impatient a few times to my own peril and have learned lessons from it:  the biggest lessons I've learned involve passing.  On the BRP one year I was anxiously trying to get around a tourbus size RV.  I'd been following him for miles, the good section was coming up, and the dotted lines were just starting.  I was ready when the zone opened, the road was clear ahead and so I dropped down a gear to finish the pass quickly.  It wasn't quick enough as the RV driver needed to move over for the bicyclist that I couldn't see (or maybe didn't think to look...I'm pretty sure that due to the size of the RV and the slight curve, that he was blocked).  Anyway, I watched as a bus moved over giving me about 1/3 of the lane.  The other situation that I'm now constantly aware of is passing more than one car at a time.  Even if you patiently wait well into the passing zone to see if the 2nd or 3rd car is going to pass, it's impossible to be sure that somebody doesn't change their mind just as you commit.  

Anyway, I've noticed that I rarely make mistakes on the bike.  When I do, I'm inevitably impatient or aggravated.  Those feelings have become red flags for me.  
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2006, 02:07:14 am »


I thought it was interesting that she mentions that her husband considered himself to be a very good rider, as an MSF graduate and a reader of Hough. Then one of the first responses is from someone else who said he considered himself to be a "Very good" rider.

One of the items I read in a professional text on motorcycling is that many riders base their self-appraisal on little criteria other than how much riding they've managed without an...incident. Not that that's invalid, just not enough to measure onesself against.
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2006, 12:48:32 pm »

Anyway, I've noticed that I rarely make mistakes on the bike.  When I do, I'm inevitably impatient or aggravated.  Those feelings have become red flags for me.  


Me too.  

I usually do a much better job at controlling my emotions when on the bike as opposed to in the cage.  There have been a couple of times though that I have had to pull off the road and let myself calm down.  This is usually due to  Nuts cagers trying to kill me.  I really want to kill them back sometimes.  

Everybody take a lesson from this guys unfortunate and fatal mistake.  No need to be in such a hurry.  Keep your heads clear.
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2006, 05:56:18 pm »

That thread is from what I long considered to be my 'home' forum.  I just saw it today and added my condolences to Paul's widow.  I hope it hits home with those who might need it.

One of my fundamental rules of riding is to never ride when I'm in a hurry.  The mindset is totally at odds for safe riding.  That doesn't mean I don't like to get the most I can out of the twisties.  But I do so on MY terms.  Being in a hurry or being impatient means you give up YOUR terms to fate.
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2006, 10:18:22 pm »

That's a very good reminder to slow down. Thanks for posting.
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2006, 11:18:44 pm »


the biggest lessons I've learned involve passing.  On the BRP one year I was anxiously trying to get around a tourbus size RV.  I'd been following him for miles, the good section was coming up, and the dotted lines were just starting.  I was ready when the zone opened, the road was clear ahead and so I dropped down a gear to finish the pass quickly.  It wasn't quick enough as the RV driver needed to move over for the bicyclist that I couldn't see (or maybe didn't think to look...I'm pretty sure that due to the size of the RV and the slight curve, that he was blocked).  Anyway, I watched as a bus moved over giving me about 1/3 of the lane.  


Iím guilty of the same thing. Except it was a dump truck and he didnít give me any lane to go. I ended up riding though 2 Ė 3í tall weeds on the shoulder and very nearly died a half dozen times.  Sad

Now when Iím in similar situations I find some place to pull over for a couple of minutes and let the traffic get well ahead of me. Then Iíll do the twisties at the pace I want.  Embarassment
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2006, 11:53:32 pm »

I should listen to this. I've made dumb mistakes because of impatience. Once I pulled left around a line of cars without looking to my left and fortunately the car coming up saw me and stopped. My riding buddy just looked at me and said "you almost just bought it". I need to keep reminding myself all the time to stay calm, stay cool, stay focused and don't get emotional. Focus on the ride - focus on safety. The fun will come just the same.
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2006, 11:07:17 pm »

When I read the message, it reminded me of an event that happened relatively early in my riding career.

I was riding after dark on a pleasant and relatively wide road (for upstate NY denizens, Route 23 coming out of the Catskills). About 1/8 mile ahead of me was a car, driving along, minding his own business. I was slowly overtaking the car, and considering passing it at an appropriate moment.

I saw the car's brake lights light up. My first thought: "Good opportunity to pass, if I can catch up." My second thought: "Hmmm, why is he braking? Maybe I should too." I listened to my second thought, so I scrubbed off a bunch of speed.

Moments later, a herd of deer ran right in front of me.  EEK! Because I had previously braked, I was able to slow down further and avoid hitting any of them. Had I not slowed down, my life would have been at best far more challenging; at worst, I would have become one with the herd.

That was a life lesson learned the easy way, I'm glad to say. Anyone else had a similar experience?

Oh, and  Thumbsup to the driver for signaling me about the upcoming hazard.

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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2006, 03:00:48 pm »

Yep.  The only times I've ever gotten hurt on a bike (and many almost/shoulda times) was when I got impatient, went too fast, or otherwise did something stupid.
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 03:16:41 pm »

It boils down to more than being "impatient."

We shouldn't toss out rationalization just because we throw a leg over a bike.  Passing a car on the left through an intersection on a road you don't know at 1:30 AM doesn't indicate a lack of patience.

Don't let your impatience, ego, aggression, whatever...dictate how you twist the throttle.

RIP
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2006, 07:27:48 pm »

I to find myself having to be a little calmer when other drivers aggravate me when I am on my motorcycle compared to when I am driving my truck.   My MSF instructor had a good saying that I sometimes repeat to myself if I find I'm getting impatient.  "there is no such thing as road rage on a motorcycle".

I think patience and maturity go a long way in keeping yourself safe.
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« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2006, 11:56:53 am »

Very nice of that lady to come back and offer good advice.... advice that I can use. It's so easy to get impatient with cars' drivers as they lumber about, talk on cell phones and snooze. But, I don't think I'd succumb to the temptation that resulted in his death.
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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2006, 12:51:06 pm »

Thanks for the cross post.  Good reminder.  Sad

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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2006, 01:14:14 pm »


 My MSF instructor had a good saying that I sometimes repeat to myself if I find I'm getting impatient.  "there is no such thing as road rage on a motorcycle".


I guess your MSF instructor hasn't been around the block much.

There definatly is road rage on a motorcycle.  You can definatlly get pissed off at other drivers on the road.  You can show your "rage" by buzzing the car or revving your engine.  But that is road rage.
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« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2006, 01:22:20 pm »




I guess your MSF instructor hasn't been around the block much.

There definatly is road rage on a motorcycle.  You can definatlly get pissed off at other drivers on the road.  You can show your "rage" by buzzing the car or revving your engine.  But that is road rage.

 Thumbsdown  

I think the point the instructor was probably making is that road rage on a bike is a bad idea (which is true), not that it doesn't happen.

Have I been guilty of it? Sure, but I never claimed to be real smart.
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« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2006, 02:12:01 pm »



 Thumbsdown  

I think the point the instructor was probably making is that road rage on a bike is a bad idea (which is true), not that it doesn't happen.

Have I been guilty of it? Sure, but I never claimed to be real smart.


Your response is lame.  I wasn't responding to what the instructor *might* have meant.  I was responding to what the instructor said in very clear and plain English.

So why on earth would you choose to give me the thumbs down due to my response about the MSF instructor who didn't have a clue?
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« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2006, 02:25:21 pm »



So why on earth would you choose to give me the thumbs down due to my response about the MSF instructor who didn't have a clue?



Because your response was needlessly negative and made an assumption about a person you know nothing about. Like the line "There is no crying in baseball" (a line from a movie in this instance) it is not meant to be taken literally, it means there shouldn't be any.  
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« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2006, 02:31:55 pm »


Because your response was needlessly negative and made an assumption about a person you know nothing about. Like the line "There is no crying in baseball" (a line from a movie in this instance) it is not meant to be taken literally, it means there shouldn't be any.  


If you want to take that approach then you also need not take my comment about "not being around the block" literally and more as a figure of speech.  Double standards are a bitch aren't they?   Lol


Edit: And why are you trying to "defend" someone you have never meet nor know anything about?  Also what makes you think what he said was to be interpreted and not taking literally?  So you are no more right than I am wrong.
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« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2006, 03:24:01 pm »




If you want to take that approach then you also need not take my comment about "not being around the block" literally and more as a figure of speech.  Double standards are a bitch aren't they?   Lol


Edit: And why are you trying to "defend" someone you have never meet nor know anything about?  Also what makes you think what he said was to be interpreted and not taking literally?  So you are no more right than I am wrong.


So what does "not being around the block" mean figuratively?  Lol

As to why I would defend someone I don't know? Call it a charactor flaw if you will.

Anyone that has spent any time with a leg over a bike would know that there are ample occasions to feel rage at a cager. Therefore it seemed obvious (to me) that the comment was not intended to be a literal truth. However I conceed that I do not know this as a fact so you may be right, and I may be wrong.

Fair enough?

Now back to the subject. Haste makes waste.  Bigsmile
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« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2006, 04:49:00 pm »


Now back to the subject. Haste makes waste.  Bigsmile


Ok this is morbit...but that's a perfect slogan for this thread.
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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2006, 10:18:58 pm »



 Thumbsdown  

I think the point the instructor was probably making is that road rage on a bike is a bad idea (which is true), not that it doesn't happen.

Have I been guilty of it? Sure, but I never claimed to be real smart.


Yes, that was his point.  Don't let your frustrations at other drivers build up to the point where you start making stupid decisions or put your self at risk of revenge from someone who could simply run you over.
 
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« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2006, 03:18:16 pm »

I find it HIGHLY instructive that his widow mentions that they had taken a class and that he felt that he was a good rider.

Now, I understand that this particular incident was more about a guy's impatience, frustration, road-raginess, whatever, but what a LOT of us forget is that most of the skills we use on a bike are DIMINISHING skills.  In other words, they are the kinds of skills that, if not regularly practiced, get "rusty".  And daily riding isn't enough to polish those rusty skills (and attitudes).  Being a continually proficient motorcyclist means committing to some kind of structured training and practice on a regular basis.

I find it so sad to hear of people killed that took one motorcycle class "n" years ago or similar stories.  It's as if folks have this idea that a single class - a single day or weekend or a few days under the observation and instruction of a good coach - will make them a good enough rider that they don't have to go back and retrain and continue to practice.

Maybe its the instructor in me, but I see motorcycling as a sport that requires lifelong learning - you know, "a few days to learn, a lifetime to master" kind of thing.

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« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2006, 03:36:57 pm »

Impatience IMO is another face of distraction. I put it in the same category as listening to music, fiddling around with some electronic gadget, having your mind on something other than your riding.
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