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Topic: Sheriff video at I-5 entrance I use has raised questions  (Read 2997 times)

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jsanford
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« on: August 29, 2017, 10:37:12 pm »

News broke locally in Seattle today of a video taken of a motorcyclist being pulled over by a deputy out of uniform with his weapon drawn. It scared the absolute bejeezus out of me  Crazy because (1) I don't keep my wallet in a front pocket where a deputy could find it; (2) I ride in earplugs, and clearly my plan of using hand signals won't work if one hand has a weapon drawn on me; (3) I do not ride wearing our GoPro. The incident occurred on my commute route.

Anyone know if, legally, we're supposed to have our ID on our person and easily accessible while riding?

The rider followed all the rules I can remember from a MCN article written about traffic stops; he even asked permission to shut the bike off. I don't know what happened before the camera was on, so am not making assumptions that he was making different choices than I would.

Are officers in plainclothes required to show a badge?

The truth is, I would think I was being robbed if a plainclothes officer looked for my wallet in my jacket pockets without identifying himself.

I would be terrified to get off my bike, because I would be thinking about how to not get raped. I'd probably only do so if instructed.

I've had one encounter with law enforcement on the motorcycle--when I broke down on I-5--and they didn't even ask to see my license, just did a rolling stop so I could push my bike out of traffic.
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 10:43:19 am »

My opinion is a cop in plain clothes, on or off duty, would be crazy to try a motor vehicle stop without a uniformed officer & marked vehicle present.

That said there are a lot of wild, wild west officers and departments across the country.  So best thing is to kill the engine when you're stopped and keep your hands up.
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2017, 11:32:36 am »

Cop did a few things wrong in this situation.  

I'd like to know how long he had been in pursuit of the motorcycle.  My guess is that the rider didn't know he was there until he stopped.  By then, the cop was pissed.
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2017, 08:31:19 pm »

I think this is the one you are talking about.
http://www.king5.com/news/local/deputy-on-leave-after-pulling-gun-during-traffic-stop/468786232
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2017, 09:01:04 pm »

Too old and set in his ways to do the job.  If he did that to someone in their car who just might have a handgun as well, he might have gotten shot.  I would shoot anyone approaching me with a gun drawn...just as fast as I could.
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2017, 09:24:22 pm »

I carry. One of us may very well have died.
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2017, 10:34:48 pm »


Too old and set in his ways to do the job.  If he did that to someone in their car who just might have a handgun as well, he might have gotten shot.  I would shoot anyone approaching me with a gun drawn...just as fast as I could.



I carry. One of us may very well have died.


No one was shot in that situation.  Your way, a person dies.  Do either of you really think your way is better?
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2017, 11:05:32 pm »



Yes, that's it. Public opinion here is not in the deputy's favor.

I'm really reevaluating my plan for dealing with traffic stops. I'll re-read the MCN article from last year on the matter, but wonder if my ID should be more accessible, etc.
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2017, 11:48:47 pm »

Remain on your bike and show the cop what every cop wants to see, empty hands.  They can't be shot with empty hands.  Do only what you're directed to do and even then, tell the cop where your ID is located and what you might have to do to access it like getting off the bike or unzipping your jacket and reaching into an inside pocket but DONT DO IT FIRST, tell the cop what you're doing BEFORE you do it.
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2017, 07:19:38 am »



No one was shot in that situation.  Your way, a person dies.  Do either of you really think your way is better?


Neither is better, which is exactly why no one, cop or not, should walk up to anyone else in a situation like that with a gun drawn and pointed.
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2017, 07:20:36 am »


Remain on your bike and show the cop what every cop wants to see, empty hands.  They can't be shot with empty hands.  Do only what you're directed to do and even then, tell the cop where your ID is located and what you might have to do to access it like getting off the bike or unzipping your jacket and reaching into an inside pocket but DONT DO IT FIRST, tell the cop what you're doing BEFORE you do it.


This is how I would respond to a traffic stop.
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2017, 09:35:31 am »

This is how I would respond to a traffic stop.


That's how I already respond to ALL traffic stops.
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2017, 01:22:57 am »

police are not the gods that run good people's lives. they have no true right to destroy citizens lives. unfortunately, they have the capacity to without consequence. something that must end. When a citizen is attacked by a "cop" without substantiated ethical and moral reasoning it is no different than being attacked by a "terrorist". If we are forced to acquiesce to thier orders out of fear of being murdered on a whim, something is very wrong. wake up.
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« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2017, 06:34:14 am »


police are not the gods that run good people's lives. they have no true right to destroy citizens lives. unfortunately, they have the capacity to without consequence. something that must end. When a citizen is attacked by a "cop" without substantiated ethical and moral reasoning it is no different than being attacked by a "terrorist". If we are forced to acquiesce to thier orders out of fear of being murdered on a whim, something is very wrong. wake up.



Oh boy, here we go......
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« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2017, 06:39:57 am »


Oh boy, here we go......


I find it fascinating that people who posts things with this type of message are very consistent in 1) lack of capital letters 2) lack of paragraphs 3) the terse, frightening closing sentence

Do they all go to some sort of class to learn to write like this?  Headscratch
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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2017, 12:54:52 pm »




I find it fascinating that people who posts things with this type of message are very consistent in 1) lack of capital letters 2) lack of paragraphs 3) the terse, frightening closing sentence

Do they all go to some sort of class to learn to write like this?  Headscratch



Very first post here also. First post couldn't have been about motorcycles!!    Headscratch
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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2017, 12:57:43 pm »


News broke locally in Seattle today of a video taken of a motorcyclist being pulled over by a deputy out of uniform with his weapon drawn. It scared the absolute bejeezus out of me  Crazy because (1) I don't keep my wallet in a front pocket where a deputy could find it; (2) I ride in earplugs, and clearly my plan of using hand signals won't work if one hand has a weapon drawn on me; (3) I do not ride wearing our GoPro. The incident occurred on my commute route.

Anyone know if, legally, we're supposed to have our ID on our person and easily accessible while riding?

The rider followed all the rules I can remember from a MCN article written about traffic stops; he even asked permission to shut the bike off. I don't know what happened before the camera was on, so am not making assumptions that he was making different choices than I would.

Are officers in plainclothes required to show a badge?

The truth is, I would think I was being robbed if a plainclothes officer looked for my wallet in my jacket pockets without identifying himself.

I would be terrified to get off my bike, because I would be thinking about how to not get raped. I'd probably only do so if instructed.

I've had one encounter with law enforcement on the motorcycle--when I broke down on I-5--and they didn't even ask to see my license, just did a rolling stop so I could push my bike out of traffic.


I believe your license has to be in your possession and accessable to you. So, legally, you could have your license in the trunk and not get a ticket.
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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2017, 11:54:49 pm »

I recently got pulled for riding around a blockage at then end of the express lanes.  Turned out the blockage was caused by the police pulling non-carpools over.  So, they got me, too.  The whole transaction was about as pleasant as possible, considering that I was getting a ticket.  That said, the video makes me think a helmet camera might be a good idea for a lot of reasons.  It might also be a really bad idea for other reasons.  There's no free lunch, is there.
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« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2017, 11:19:07 am »

You don't mention the state you live in. Here in California it is a BIG fine to get caught in the car pool lane with only yourself in the car. That's what I have heard anyway. If the CHP enforced that rule, with the amount of scofflaws I see, the state could get out of the financial mess they are in.





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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2018, 07:00:51 pm »

That is not how a traffic stop is supposed to go down...  As hinted at in the article, the deputy's use of force was way over the top.  A stopped motorcycle isn't an immediate threat to him, and I'd like to see him justify shooting into traffic had the motorcyclist decided to flee.

As far as the CCW folks are concerned, generally speaking life>property, even in stand your ground based states, and I know most CCW courses teach that...  nobody should have to die (and thankfully, nobody did).  Personally, if someone had a gun trained on me already, I wouldn't attempt to draw my own unless I surmised that was my only option in a situation that I'm already in a huge disadvantage.  Regardless of whether a state requires you announce you are carrying or not, I think it's good practice to, including where you're carrying it, so they don't freak out (maybe) if your weapon accidentally prints or is otherwise exposed.  Some areas are less apt to panic than others.

I may have been stopped a time or two, and I can't think of being stopped on a bike being really any different than being stopped in a car, other than, much like this rider did, having to explain to the nice officer that it's hard to hear with the helmet on and ear plugs in.

Also, just like in a car, don't do anything until the officer approaches you and gives you instructions.  When they don't feel like they have control of the situation, it immediately starts their adrenaline rush, mostly due to the large amount of officer safety training they get and the desire to go home in one piece at the end of the day.

Of course, there's the obvious part...  obey the local laws, and you'll minimize unpleasant interactions with law enforcement.
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