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Topic: 07 kawaaki ninja 650 Stator problem??  (Read 2583 times)

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howardrichman
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« on: September 08, 2017, 12:01:35 am »

07 kawasaki ninja 650R

After a 50 ml ride; I plugged in battery tender junior at home, just as I have done on my stock near 10 year old battery.  Red light on tender didn't go out and started to burn up. I plugged in another charger and battery wouldn't hold charge. Installed new battery, ran great for 50 miles and electric system shut down. Turn on ignition later on, and all came on dimly, no start, unless I kik start, and shut down soon after. I assume stater (charging system) over worked and also burned up trying to charge a defective battery.                          

                                                                                                                                        What to do now??
                                                                                                                                        How,where and what to check and test.

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sleazy rider
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2017, 02:26:42 pm »

Find the stator lead (three yellow wires), disconnect and test the three pairs for continuity.  Set meter to ohms, pick two leads and see if it reads zero.  If it reads open, you have bad stator.  Test three different combos of wires for this.  Then, put Pos lead from meter on each yellow from stator with Neg to frame.  Continuity means stator is grounded out and bad. Start bike and see what a/c output is on each connection.  Should be better than 20v at idle on three pairs.  Zero - bad stator.  

If it tests good, replace regulator/rectifier.  If the stator is bad, replace stator and reg/rec.
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2017, 09:17:44 pm »

My 07 Ninja 650's stator went out a few yrs ago at 30K miles.
Follow this to diagnose;  http://motorcyclemd.com/how-to-fully-troubleshoot-your-motorcycles-charging-system/

I got a Rick's MotorSports stator, via Amazon.

That stator's been pumping good for 10K+.
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howardrichman
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 09:22:50 pm »

thanks; will do in morning!!
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howardrichman
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 11:44:26 pm »


Find the stator lead (three yellow wires), disconnect and test the three pairs for continuity.  Set meter to ohms, pick two leads and see if it reads zero.  If it reads open, you have bad stator.  Test three different combos of wires for this.  Then, put Pos lead from meter on each yellow from stator with Neg to frame.  Continuity means stator is grounded out and bad. Start bike and see what a/c output is on each connection.  Should be better than 20v at idle on three pairs.  Zero - bad stator.  

If it tests good, replace regulator/rectifier.  If the stator is bad, replace stator and reg/rec.


well; I have speced ohm readings(aprox .2ohms) across any pair off the stator, and no short to Ground from any lead.  Only aprox 3.5V A/C across any stator pair.  Manual is stating  If the stator coils have normal resistance, but the voltage
check showed the alternator to be defective; then the rotor
magnets have probably weakened, and the rotor must be
replaced. Don't know if I should replace stator anyways. I can test the reg/rect. and replace if neccecery.  



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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2017, 12:45:34 pm »




well; I have speced ohm readings(aprox .2ohms) across any pair off the stator, and no short to Ground from any lead.  Only aprox 3.5V A/C across any stator pair.  Manual is stating  If the stator coils have normal resistance, but the voltage
check showed the alternator to be defective; then the rotor
magnets have probably weakened, and the rotor must be
replaced. Don't know if I should replace stator anyways. I can test the reg/rect. and replace if neccecery.  



                                                                                                                                  Howie...



You've gone far enough to determine it needs to come apart for a visual inspection.  Good news is it's a relatively simple job.  I've replaced one rotor for magnet failure.  They FELL off and ate up the stator.  Drain the oil, tear it down & inspect for damage and order the parts as required..  Don't forget the new gaskets and a full oil change.  I suspect your stator is NFG/cooked.  It'll be black in at least half the windings.

I hope you have a center stand on it.  Makes it even easier with the bike upright.

Check the price difference between OEM and Rick's.  If it's close, go OEM.  JMHO.

Just checked:

Rick's is https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/New-OEM-Style-Kawasaki-Stator-21_227 . $144
OEM is http://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/p/kawasaki/21007-0601/rotor . $405 discounted to $347

It's not worth double.

If the rotor is bad, you will need a Motion Pro rotor puller and a pneumatic impact gun to take it off.  Where are you located in general?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 12:59:51 pm by sleazy rider » Logged
howardrichman
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2017, 06:37:09 pm »

thanks for reply;
I live in eastern Tennessee. Love the roads here. I saw used Rotors on E-bay for $90-$150, but are used, and that would worry me it's condition. Bike Bandit and cheap cycle parts want near $500 for a new rotor!! The stator wasn't priced so much. The  Stator tested out no short to ground and proper resistance between any pair of stator leads. I haven't looked at it yet, but if it looks good, would it still need replacing?

                                                                                                                                                                                   Howie...
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sleazy rider
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2017, 09:08:52 pm »

Do me a favor.  Before you tear it down, start the bike and check the output of the stator at the battery with a multimeter.  You might have gotten a bad new battery.  I've seen it.  What brand did you buy?  Output at idle should be in the 13.8-14.1v, but should never exceed 14.8 with motor revved.

Gotta get eyes on everything in the stator area at this point.  It's the left engine case, so many 8mm bolts and watch the fingers trying to get the cover off.  The rotor's magnetism will try to keep everything from moving outward.  I think you might have to remove or maybe just loosen the left side fairing panel and pull it out of the way.  

Do not order parts until you verify what you need.  Look at the stator, it's wiring harness and the rotor for issues.  Good news is, problems are usually very visible.  When you get into it, post good pictures of everything.  I can help if I see it.  E. Tennessee is a bit away for a house call from Michigan. Lol  if it were a couple hundred miles closer, I'd load my tools in the bike and run over.

I don't recommend used electrical parts unless you like buying things twice.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 09:16:31 pm by sleazy rider » Logged
howardrichman
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2017, 09:24:26 pm »

Thanks; I'll set up for an oil / filter change; and pull cases and stator to see what's going on. is there a way to test a rotor??

                                                                                                                                                                          Howie...
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sleazy rider
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2017, 09:49:45 pm »

Check the charging system output first.

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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2017, 10:18:26 pm »



well; I have speced ohm readings(aprox .2ohms) across any pair off the stator, and no short to Ground from any lead.  Only aprox 3.5V A/C across any stator pair.  Manual is stating  If the stator coils have normal resistance, but the voltage
check showed the alternator to be defective; then the rotor
magnets have probably weakened, and the rotor must be
replaced. Don't know if I should replace stator anyways. I can test the reg/rect. and replace if neccecery.  
                                                                                                                                  Howie...

HOLD ON!  You do NOT check A/C across the stator pairs!!  It's each stator wire (in turn) to ground!
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2017, 10:53:16 pm »

 each stator lead to ground- near zero a/c voltage.
 DC voltage across battery- 12.3-12.7 Vdc

both tests idle to 3k rpms no difference, but all resistance tests across stator pairs show no open, and no short across each stator lead to ground.
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 10:59:29 am »



HOLD ON!  You do NOT check A/C across the stator pairs!!  It's each stator wire (in turn) to ground!


WRONG.  It's tested across pairs.  You're checking electrical flow output and to do that the circuit must be completed.
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 11:48:21 am »


WRONG.  It's tested across pairs.  You're checking electrical flow output and to do that the circuit must be completed.

Then the link I posted previously is not to be trusted.   Sorry
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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2017, 01:58:48 pm »

In 55,000 + miles, I've never had a problem with the charging system on my 2007 Ninja 650R.  Replaced the battery twice in ten years, but that's because I've never bothered with a tender.  This bike WILL NOT START if the battery is completely flat.  You can push it all day, but if the battery has truly failed, the computer and injectors will never receive power.  Ask me how I know  Twofinger

As for AC vs. DC, it depends on where you look in the system.  The Alternator is made up of several parts - namely the Stator (not moving) and Rotor (moving).  The Alternator does in fact output an Alternating Current (AC) that is Rectified and Regulated to Direct Current (DC) by... the Regulator / Rectifier.  This DC is what the battery needs to charge.  If you try to read DC directly at the Alternator leads, you get 0 V.  If you try to read AC at the Battery you get 0 V.

If you get very low resistance between the Alternator winding leads, and very high resistance from the Alternator to the frame, that's good.  Check your fuses.  Be certain that you have a good BARE METAL ground for your meter lead though.  Paint DOES NOT CONDUCT.

If you get 13 - 15 V DC at the battery leads with the bike running, that's good.  Also make sure the battery holds 12 - 13 V DC with the engine off but the key on.  If it doesn't, try a different battery and check your fuses.  

If all your voltages and fuses are good and a known good battery has the same symptoms, check BOTH ENDS of the battery leads for corrosion.  It may be nasty bright green crud, or may be nearly invisible black / gray film.  Clean it off with a wire brush and reinstall with silicone electrical grease.  This does not conduct electricity, but keeps water and corrosion out.

Only after all of that is it time to open the case and do a visual inspection.  IT IS POSSIBLE to get the right voltage to the battery and still have charging issues because the Alternator isn't giving enough current.  It is possible to have enough battery voltage for bright headlights without enough current to crank the starter.

Magnets DO NOT lose strength over time.  They CAN come loose in the Alternator though.  If you're lucky, this will only result in less voltage or current output.  If you're unlucky, they get whipped around and chew things up.  Another possibility is that the windings shifted, which will have similar symptoms.  Either one will require you replace parts.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 02:02:19 pm by Phenix_Rider » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 10:01:42 pm »

Had a stator go bad on the ZX10R --  as a series of cascading failures...  The battery, regulator-rectifier, and stator all failed within a few weeks of each other-- I'm not sure which one precipitated the whole thing.. but think that a weak battery lead to too much draw on the stator which over time cooked one of the stator phases.  The replacement battery kept dying because the now damaged stator wouldn't charge it correctly.  Or maybe the rectifier went 1st and then took  out the battery and then the stator?    

In other words, when you find what's wrong -- replace the other components too...  It's cheap insurance and better than getting stuck on the side of the road with another problem a week after fixing the 1st problem.  
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« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 11:20:32 pm »

 Well; I drained the oil, pulled the cover and found the stator bottom half burned looking. it actually looks like carbon build up between the coils and darkened. what does than mean?  can it be cleaned and salvaged. Does the resistance specs show it to good if cleaned?

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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 11:23:43 pm »

The darker burned area was on the bottom half. Is this just crud, and can just be cleaned, or need replacing?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:39:34 am by howardrichman » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 11:27:35 am »


 Well; I drained the oil, pulled the cover and found the stator bottom half burned looking. it actually looks like carbon build up between the coils and darkened. what does than mean?  can it be cleaned and salvaged. Does the resistance specs show it to good if cleaned?


How does it smell?  Does it smell like old used oil (slightly acidic tar) or like burnt electronics (ozone and burning plastic and lighter fluid)?  I can't tell from that picture if you just waited a long time to change the oil or if the coils overheated.  Hit it with some brake cleaner or contact cleaner and see how it looks.  The coils should be transparent red/orange resin.  If they're still yellow/brown/black, the stator is fucked.

Did you check that all the magnets on the rotor are still in place?

Bike Bandit is a decent source for parts, and a great source for parts diagrams.
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2007-kawasaki-ninja-650r-ex650a/o/m149002#sch442783
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:35:01 am by Phenix_Rider » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2017, 07:16:04 pm »

That's cooked.  Replace the stator.  It's exactly what I expected to be found.

Phenix - the rotor in a 650 is a one piece unit.
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