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Topic: Do I think I want another Concours?  (Read 4706 times)

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RBEmerson
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« on: April 09, 2018, 11:02:26 pm »

The unthinkable has happened. One or more asshats, working for a sub-contractor doing work at our house, decided they just had to sit on my bright shiny red '03 BMW K1200RS. And they dropped it. Hard.

The prime contractor said that the sub said "one of our guys damaged the customer's bike's windshield". I guess they didn't tell the foreman about all of the tupperware, tupperware framing, handbrake, and saddlebag damage they did. There will be a sharp discussion shortly. Anyway... Using Max BMW's parts system. The parts bill for the obvious stuff comes up to $1798.73. Unpainted. Add $1009.63 if the fairing frame can't be pushed into place. And, if the customer's really steamed, $388 for the right saddle bag. Kelly lists trade-in on a superb edition at $2700, and retail at $3800. Which means, tossing incidentals like paint and labor, to say nothing of the odd bit or piece that wasn't immediately obvious, the bike is totaled with 45+K on the clock.

All of the above also explains some of why I've stopped swallowing the Beemer Kool-Aid. BMW=Break My Wallet

Soooooooooooo... The move to the K1200RS was prompted by the sudden death, due to a hydrauliced cylinder full of gas, of my "Barney purple" Concours. At the time the new C14 hadn't shown up and ABS was (and is) a must have. So now I'm apparently possessed of a totaled bike and spring is in the air. Is maybe another Connie in the future?

New isn't vaguely an option. SWMBO wishes I wouldn't ride. Anything that PO's SWMBO is a Bad Thing. Therefore, new is a Bad Thing.

Non-negotiable must haves: true cruise control. ABS. Two wheels, motor, something to sit on, and something to hold it all together are all desirable.

What do I need to know about when (model year) all of the must-have boxes were checked?

Riding style: moderate gusto, one-up w/ or w/o baggage, anything from slabs to back roads.
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 10:20:12 am »

I ride an '09 14 Concours. with a re-flash on the ECM it is a real beast. 700# shafty that will do the 1/4 mile in 10.5 stock. The re-flash
removes the timing retard issue and has new fuel maps. The torque comes on much earlier and and has gobs more on top. Can be had in ABS and post '10's can have traction control. True Cruise Control could probably be added. I'm just fine with a properly installed Vista Cruise throttle lock. The KiPass system is weird at first. Don't ever loose the key fobs though. That could be a $1000 + mistake. Just a spare fob is around $350. The ECM is matched to the Fob. You must have a working Fob to program a new one. So if you lose the working Fob you have to buy a new ECM and matching Fob. The saddlebags require the key to unlock, every time. Must be locked to remove the key. They remove real easy as well and the bike looks great without them. They have an adjustable windscreen, I like that. Seating position is comfortable. I put on 2" handlebar risers which don't require any mods and make the riding position a little more upright. Doesn't seem to effect the handling. Use Michelin Pilot Road 4's. A 55 rear seems to work better than the stock 50. Seems to turn in faster/easier. It is a Shim under bucket engine. $$$ at the shop. There's something special about the swing arm system that reduces the "lift" on hard acceleration. Great fuel mileage, average riding will yield over 40 MPG. Lasat summer riding across Nevada/Utah @ 100+ I still got 37 MPG. All in all I think it is a very impressive touring bike. Fast as hell and is capable of serious peg scrappin'. Most people can't/won't reach it's limits.
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RBEmerson
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 10:33:09 am »

Interesting comments. The torque comment catches my attention a lot. The K1200RS feels, even at low R's, as though it could pull stumps. I spent a week in the Alps on a K1600 GT. It had no bottom end, which made negotiating tight hairpins, in first, ...um... interesting. I count myself lucky I didn't drop in the middle of a couple turns. In other words, add must have low end torque to the gotta have.

OTOH, adding cruise control isn't a winner. I put it on the C10. Very low fun quotient in the job. From what I've heard on COG, it's less fun on the C14. If it's not factory original, pass.
(I also have it on our '90 VW Vanagon. Aside from a couple of routing issues and stringing cable between the motor and the "cockpit", that one was easy-peasy. Both were/are CCS-100's from Murph's.
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 11:25:01 am »

Not trying to play the “my current bike brand loyalty card” ... but in the category you are looking, these are highly prized and rated. Just another alternative.  They are lovely in the flesh ...
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/2013-triumph-trophy-se-10-200-miles-sweet-bike-10-400-neg.1284672/
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 12:53:17 pm »

Get a third generation FJR, 2013 and up. It has everything you wish for, ABS, cruise control, side cases, seat, electric windshield, etc.
The motor: bullet proof, lots of torque, pulls easily from stops in third gear.  
Available in two versions, A and ES. The A is the basic with ABS, cruise, ride by wire, etc. The ES adds electronic suspension adjustment.
No radio or entertainment system, no integrated GPS.
Like all bikes, some like the seat, others don't. The same with the windshield.
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 05:28:59 pm »

I was truly impressed with the concours 14 as we went 2-up across the country and the bike never missed a beat. Very nice comfort and power in a nice sport-touring package.
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RBEmerson
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 08:41:49 pm »

The only Triumphs I know qualify under "how do you know when a Triumph is out of oil?  When it stops leaking." I haven't ridden a new one (doesn't leak even with full oil charge). I really should. On paper, that rascal looks very attractive. And a ride from Indiana would be fun. NTL, this remains a long shot. As the (IMHO annoying and whiney) line goes, "gee, too bad you're not closer to me".

Thanks for sorting me out on A and ES. Having ridden the equivalent in both a BMW RT (boxer) and K1600, nice not a must have. 'Course, it depends on the existing shocks. My RS has Öhlin shocks - me likey. An electric windshield is nice. The weather starts to get wet, very nice let the main air stream blow over my head. When it's hot, dropping the shield is nice, too.

I have a Zumo 660 which, I found out, is a BMW Nav IV without the interface to the "wonder wheel" control. Other than that, plug and play. Woohoo. With the RS I use a Garmin mount on a RAM arm. Works for me.  Smile
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2018, 09:56:32 am »

Do I have it right, that no C14 Connie has cruise control? That I'd have to put one in?
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2018, 05:47:17 pm »


Do I have it right, that no C14 Connie has cruise control? That I'd have to put one in?

Unless the previous owner installed one, they have no cruise control.
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« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2018, 09:32:04 pm »

Gotit. Just confirming what I thought I heard.  Smile
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 01:17:12 pm »

Sigh... according to the adjuster, as a vehicle claim, it's almost certainly a total. As a liability claim, maybe yes, maybe no.
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2018, 06:08:01 pm »


Interesting comments. The torque comment catches my attention a lot. The K1200RS feels, even at low R's, as though it could pull stumps. I spent a week in the Alps on a K1600 GT. It had no bottom end, which made negotiating tight hairpins, in first, ...um... interesting. I count myself lucky I didn't drop in the middle of a couple turns. In other words, add must have low end torque to the gotta have.

OTOH, adding cruise control isn't a winner. I put it on the C10. Very low fun quotient in the job. From what I've heard on COG, it's less fun on the C14. If it's not factory original, pass.
(I also have it on our '90 VW Vanagon. Aside from a couple of routing issues and stringing cable between the motor and the "cockpit", that one was easy-peasy. Both were/are CCS-100's from Murph's.

https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/concours1400
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2018, 06:48:44 pm »

Ahh

Replacement bike should be:

Kawasaki Concours

 Bigok
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2018, 10:12:07 pm »

Fascinating! Usually I avoid "the greatest ECU mod ever" but I like what I see here, as it relates to being able to pull stumps in 6th at idle.  Wink
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 02:52:32 pm »

Get the insurance company(the subcontractor's?) to total your bike and then buy it back from the insurance company for pennies on the dollar.



 Shrug
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2018, 07:35:39 pm »

Nah. I shudder think how much I've put into this bike - ABS modulator ($2K), alternator, I've repressed whatever else. Tossing another $3K for parts (scrounging parts is out - I really want to ride before fall sets in) and $1700 for paint... Plus, at least in PA, getting a salvage title is a challenge and I'll still have a salvage title if I hope to sell the KRS at some point (flip it?). For me, lose-lose.

- - - - -

I finally had a chance to sit on an FJR. I'm 6', 33" inseam, and the wide FJR saddle, next to the tank, leaves me feeling less than 100% planted. By comparison, I can fully stand up and move my KRS around under me. How's the Connie on this score?
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« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2018, 07:53:00 pm »

I just found a '10 Connie with 6K on it. It's listed, at a dealer, at $7K. It's farkled with a mystery custom saddle I want like a summer cold - I'll ask if the stock saddle is available (probably have to buy one). So... what's a 6-7 year younger Connie got this one doesn't? BTW, it's blue. I assume that makes it faster.  Wink
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« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2018, 08:11:37 pm »


I just found a '10 Connie with 6K on it. It's listed, at a dealer, at $7K. It's farkled with a mystery custom saddle I want like a summer cold - I'll ask if the stock saddle is available (probably have to buy one). So... what's a 6-7 year younger Connie got this one doesn't? BTW, it's blue. I assume that makes it faster.  Wink


I think you can get a Sargent seat off the shelf.  Just buy it so we can see the pics...
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2018, 08:12:27 pm »


I just found a '10 Connie with 6K on it. It's listed, at a dealer, at $7K. It's farkled with a mystery custom saddle I want like a summer cold - I'll ask if the stock saddle is available (probably have to buy one). So... what's a 6-7 year younger Connie got this one doesn't? BTW, it's blue. I assume that makes it faster.  Wink



YES




Is the subcontractor paying up?
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2018, 09:22:35 pm »

I'll conceal the secret powers of the paint.  Bigsmile

Link to listing.

I rode a BMW K1300GT and positively hated the saddle. I couldn't shift my weight in turns, standing at stops was no fun - hated it. On the C10 I had a Corbin "feels like a plank" saddle that slowly melted into the proper shape. I wouldn't mind having one again.

Anyway, the big questions are how out of date is a '10. How wide is the front of the saddle. I think I've heard the stock saddle has a tendency to bring "the boys" into contact with the tank. Why, why, why is that allowed to happen.  Crazy
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2018, 09:51:24 pm »



Anyway, the big questions are how out of date is a '10.


2010 was when the C14 had significant revisions in fact the most of any year since production so it is a good year.
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2018, 10:00:33 pm »

I'm reading some '10 reviews. When I still had the C10, I remember hearing about the cockpit heat issues and some other gripes being addressed. Keeping mind 'the devil's in the details", I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing from later bikes. For example, in '16 the FJR went from 5 to 6 gears; no small change.
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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2018, 11:28:41 pm »


I'll conceal the secret powers of the paint.  Bigsmile

Link to listing.

I rode a BMW K1300GT and positively hated the saddle. I couldn't shift my weight in turns, standing at stops was no fun - hated it. On the C10 I had a Corbin "feels like a plank" saddle that slowly melted into the proper shape. I wouldn't mind having one again.

Anyway, the big questions are how out of date is a '10. How wide is the front of the saddle. I think I've heard the stock saddle has a tendency to bring "the boys" into contact with the tank. Why, why, why is that allowed to happen.  Crazy


'10 was the year Kawasaki fixed the initial C14 issues, less engine heat on the rider, higher mirrors, a different location for the glove box, etc.
It has linked ABS, traction control, heated grips, not sure if standard but look for them.
It is a bit higher and heavier than the FJR, and the center of mass is higher too.  

If you're interested, a friend installed this cruise control. Way more expensive than the CCS but worth looking at it: https://www.mccruise.com/collections/kawasaki/products/kawasaki-z1400gtr-concours-from-2010-new-product-featuring-our-compact-electric-servo?variant=779795033
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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2018, 11:38:02 pm »

Heh, heh, heh... I did more homework and found a '14 for a better price and lower miles. TINSTAAFL, of course. I try to get to the dealer tomorrow and see what's what with the price and 6600 miles. Gotta be a McGuffin in there. Maybe not.

Soooooooooooooo... what's not happening in the '14 vs 3 years later. The '15 added the vent in the windshield, and a heinous green paint. This '14 is red (slower than the blue ones, I fear). The big question will be what happens when I fork this puppy (horse riding term, not avoiding an f-bomb  Bigsmile  ).
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« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2018, 11:53:30 am »

I didn't get to the dealer with the '14. The close at 5 on weekends and it was too late to make the hour long trip and do anything really useful (test ride). Instead I rode the '16 FJR (blue - v. quick). It got in about an hour and a half on a mix of roads from high speed limited access to a nearby good twisty road. It all went quite well, and I got better terms with balancing the bike. I like to come to a stop with my bike fully balanced and needing feet down at the  last minute. I managed to pull that off with the FJR. Frankly, I'm in serious lust. But... SWMBO is steamed about the out-the-door price. Much as I like the bike, I can't say as I'm too thrilled, either. I looked up the NADA and Kelly retail numbers for a '16 in our area. MCC is hard against the upper limit and not willing to give more than a $500 break. The deal would be a direct purchase with no trade-in. Maybe that's a plus (prep and so on, for a bike that won't be a hot seller and has a relatively low resale value). Maybe that's a negative (no chance for a profit from selling the bike directly or to an auction).  Shrug
Thoughts on any of this?

So... I'm back to the less expensive '14 Connie. Again, what am I giving up versus a later Connie? Can anyone do a "compare/contrast" with the FJR? I found one review on YT, but it wasn't really helpful.
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« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2018, 10:29:44 pm »

I have owned 4 FJRs and 2 C14s.  The last C14, a 2010, has been a great motorcycle but I had to add a Penske shock and fully adjustable ZX-14 forks to get the ride quality I wanted.

When riding the C14 back to back with my 2014 FJR-ES, it’s very obvious that the FJR is in its 3rd generation while the C14 is deeply stuck in its 2nd generation.  The FJR is better than the C14 in every category except raw horsepower and acceleration...and it’s not that far behind the C14 in that category.

If you are interested in a FJR, pay the piper and get a 3rd GEN....2013 or newer.
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« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2018, 01:33:52 am »

I hear you. Until I can get a ride on a Connie, I'm stalled for making a decision. And, oh, the Triumph Trophy SE has crept into the discussion. Caramba! Rolleyes
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« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2018, 08:02:35 am »

For anyone keeping track of it, the insurance start to this thread has been almost completely resolved. The bike has been totaled under the idiots' liability insurance. Basically, the insurance company looked at the cost of repairs, a lot, and the value of the bike, not a lot. Totaled. It feels like a "you vehicle hit my vehicle" result, but think about it. The insurance people aren't to spend more than the bike's worth to make it all bright and shiny again. They're not a charity.

I'm pissed. The actual work to revive the bike is no more than I did when I added the air horn or HID's. Three hunks of tupperware come off, do work, tupperware goes back on. Movie over. But...the current tupperware is broken. I have to buy new tupperware and paint it. I can buy the bike back - for a ridiculous amount - do the work myself, and there's a bright shiny bike. With a salvage title and zero resale value. All that's left is to wave bye-bye as a bike that's in sound mechanical condition and bad cosmetics goes away.
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« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2018, 08:11:57 am »

Anyone that rides a BMW can have their own private engineer study, design and fabricate a solution to any inconvenience found by them.
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« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2018, 08:51:37 am »

Not if they're on the verge on insolvency after buying components made with unobtainium treated with a BMW proprietary process.

I like the KRS enough to spend too effin' much money on two major repairs (alternator, ABS module). NTL anything else of this magnitude is a bridge too far. I could take my chances with fleaBay but even that won't be cheap. Because of an utterly event not of my doing, I've come to end of the road. The scary thing is all of my bikes bought after the "rode, stopped riding, riding again" cycle have died. Honda CB900 Custom dropped a valve (good luck finding same), the Connie C10 motor was hydrauliced by too much gas in a cylinder, and now the KRS, hit by a pile of wood. That's a scary trend.  EEK!
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« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2018, 09:07:07 am »

You see? You have to ride them more.             Bigok                      Your bikes sitting around is costing you money. By your own explanation, if you were riding them you would not have had the trouble you've had. I will send you a financial counseling bill.
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Past bikes: Dirt- '74 MX360, SC500 x 2, '77 YZ400, '78 YZ400, '83 CR250, '85 CR250, '86 CR250   
 Street- '74 S3400, H1500, '72 H2750 x 2, '78 GS1000C, GS1000EC x 2, '80 GS1000S, '00 1200 Bandit, '05 FJR1300, '07 ZX14, '06 FJR1300(2 wks), '12 FJR1300
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« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2018, 10:08:36 am »

All of them got plenty of exercise. The CB900 was/is a weird bike. Based on the CB750 motor, Honda pumped the motor up decided to go to a shaft drive. Unfortunately the CB750/900 tranny drives a chain on the right side. The Gold Wing shaft/rear end are on the left. Rather than just put a simple shaft across the back of the motor, someone decided to make it a two speed transfer gear. The CB900 Custom was a ten-speed bike. Of course the gears overlapped. If the bike hadn't been a barn find (well large chicken coop), I might have come to my senses and sold it. Instead, I rigged it with a full Vetter fairing kit - fairing, lowers, and bags. As it is, the "remains" were sold, on eBay, to a guy from Alabama who drove to Philadelphia, loaded the bike on a trailer and went back to Alabama in a hurry. "I gotta work tonight."  Rolleyes

I found the C10 locally (don't remember how). I put a CCS-100 in it. If it hadn't been for the damn gas leak, it would have stayed around longer, but not much. I decided that ABS was essential. The bent piston rod forced the issue. The bike went to someone present on the site.

The KRS started out as a boxer RT. Except, on the demo ride, I realized I really, really, really didn't want to ride bike that feels like a sewing machine. Still don't, for that matter, with the exception of an '09 loaner that had just a touch of Laz-Y-Boy massage to it. Anyway, I was offered a KRS and here we are.
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« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2018, 10:43:18 am »

"The CB900 Custom was a ten-speed bike"

Hey, I had one of those in the early 90s. It was a great bike and a comfy sofa
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RBEmerson
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« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2018, 04:53:22 pm »

Cowhorn bars and a big-butt saddle - more like a cow pony than a bike?  Lol
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« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2018, 09:41:43 pm »

I've decided to accept the "full" offer and use it to buy The Next Bike. The answer to my question: do I think I want another Concours. I think I thought I did, but I've decided to go with an FJR 1300ES. Using an old Quaker expression, "it speaks to my condition".

Great thanks for the help, input, and frivolity.  Smile
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« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2018, 11:28:19 am »

just buy a ZX 14 and put some Meals on Wheels Boxes on it

bar risers and a better seat

Then you got a rocket ship Sport Touring Machine
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« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2018, 12:12:58 pm »

If there's no eye bleach and "that which is seen cannot be unseen", I guess there's no brain bleach for the idea of a ZX14 with ape hangers and MOW boxes.  EEK!
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« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2018, 02:51:48 pm »

Just yesterday, a nice Kawasaki salesman told me that the new Ninja H2 make the Concours now look like a SV650 in comparison.

You always have to trust the nice salesman. Bigok
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