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Topic: high compresion/high cam profiles cause early engine degregation ?  (Read 423 times)

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howardrichman
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« on: November 23, 2021, 09:06:44 am »

Yamaha17 fj-09/kawasaki 07 ninja 650

I've owned my kawasaki ninja 650 for 14 years w/ near 80K miles and also a Yamaha fj-09 since 2017. both so far totaly reliable. The Ninja 650 has lower compression, takes regular gas,starts easily. The fj-09 is fairly new, runs great,takes premium gas, slightly harder starting. Can more aggeresive cam profile, and or longer strokes of performance engines last to 80-100K mikes sa. the Ninja 650, Suzuki Bandit and Vstrom, or the Yamaha FJR1300 that take a regular fuel, milder engines?  Seems these lower profile cam, lower compression engines that have less stressed engines last longer.  I considered selling the FJ-09 for a more sport oriented bike anyway. I've been looking @ the Aprilia tuono 660. what I can take from it's engine is all of which would not be a High mileage engine as some of the early production engines are having issues possibly from trying to push as much performance of a 660 cc engine as possible to create the desired sound and performance; but does it also mean this motor could never last 80-100K miles ? My Harley had engine related problems when jumping up compression and cam profiles. Same question goes for sa. the KTM, BMW, and other european brands with performance motors. Just a thought    Embarassment


TNX.
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2021, 11:18:45 am »

I know the book says to run premium (high octane) fuel, but have been using regular gas in my 2015 FJ09. At first was scared, constantly listening for pinging/knocking but heard none. Performance didn't noticeably change and doesn't show any issues in 45,000 miles. In fact, have had no mechanical failures. I do keep maintenance up and rarely hammer the bike, although it does get ridden aggressively.
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2021, 01:08:48 pm »


I know the book says to run premium (high octane) fuel, but have been using regular gas in my 2015 FJ09. At first was scared, constantly listening for pinging/knocking but heard none. Performance didn't noticeably change and doesn't show any issues in 45,000 miles. In fact, have had no mechanical failures. I do keep maintenance up and rarely hammer the bike, although it does get ridden aggressively.


Same bike, same results. I don't usually run 87 but around here sometimes you don't have any option.
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kver
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2021, 01:49:28 pm »


Yamaha17 fj-09/kawasaki 07 ninja 650

I've owned my kawasaki ninja 650 for 14 years w/ near 80K miles and also a Yamaha fj-09 since 2017. both so far totaly reliable. The Ninja 650 has lower compression, takes regular gas,starts easily. The fj-09 is fairly new, runs great,takes premium gas, slightly harder starting. Can more aggeresive cam profile, and or longer strokes of performance engines last to 80-100K mikes sa. the Ninja 650, Suzuki Bandit and Vstrom, or the Yamaha FJR1300 that take a regular fuel, milder engines?  Seems these lower profile cam, lower compression engines that have less stressed engines last longer.  I considered selling the FJ-09 for a more sport oriented bike anyway. I've been looking @ the Aprilia tuono 660. what I can take from it's engine is all of which would not be a High mileage engine as some of the early production engines are having issues possibly from trying to push as much performance of a 660 cc engine as possible to create the desired sound and performance; but does it also mean this motor could never last 80-100K miles ? My Harley had engine related problems when jumping up compression and cam profiles. Same question goes for sa. the KTM, BMW, and other european brands with performance motors. Just a thought    Embarassment


TNX.


I think the reason harley have problems when you change cams is that they were NOT DESIGNED for higher compression and higher revs and the resulting change in piston speeds and accelleration...   Engines that were designed from the get-go to handle it have no problems.  I, like you, would prefer to lose 20HP from a 150 or 180 HP bike and be able to run on 87 anydays but unfortunately manufacturers don't see it that way.  

You keep complaining about the FJ-09 saying you want both a more sporty bike AND a more long-distance touring oriented bike --  sounds like you got a mix of both and don't liek it and don't know which way to go forwards???   I get that way with compromise, jack-of-all trades solutions sometimes too...  
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2021, 04:11:05 pm »

All current bikes can go for many miles with proper maintenance. The high HP bikes were built to take the stress designed into high RPMs. Just keep the maintenance up.

Harleys? They are air cooled. Not good for putting around in traffic. Kver is also on to something about RPMs out of a bar to bar bike.

I've run my ZX14, GSX S1000 on regular gas without any problems. BUT!, depends on how you ride it when you have the low octane stuff in the tank. Light load, light throttle cruising on the frwy is doable.
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howardrichman
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2021, 04:46:59 pm »

 The Ninja 650 w/76HP, what does Aprilia do to make a 660 attain 95 HP. it must be in the cam,valving,timing,fueling and compression which i figure must be hard on the motors for the long run or those components must be of a higher grade to handle those increases. I may keep the FJ-09 and pick up the Aprilia Tuono, or just own one bike; the new Ninja 650; it just handles differently being more (in) the bike. It doesnt pull as hard, but will get there; just not as immediate or have the sound as the Aprilia, but hear there adictive.

TNX.
 
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2021, 05:49:29 pm »

Great thread about engines.   I think any bike coming out of Japan = do the oil changes and it’s going to run a very long time.  
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kver
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2021, 06:12:27 pm »


 The Ninja 650 w/76HP, what does Aprilia do to make a 660 attain 95 HP. it must be in the cam,valving,timing,fueling and compression which i figure must be hard on the motors for the long run or those components must be of a higher grade to handle those increases. I may keep the FJ-09 and pick up the Aprilia Tuono, or just own one bike; the new Ninja 650; it just handles differently being more (in) the bike. It doesnt pull as hard, but will get there; just not as immediate or have the sound as the Aprilia, but hear there adictive.

TNX.
  


The ape runs much higher RPM I bet -- HP is torque X RPM ...  so if you can run higher RPMs you get more HP.   Of course higher rpms means shorter stroke to keep piston speeds down which means less torque lower down.  You also need a lighter crankshaft and valves that can handle the rpm ..  pushrods are out... and this means you get much more responsive / twitcher throttle response.   Oh -- and the ECU needs to keep up with everything -- so more expensive computers.  But yeah -- you're right -- you need better component all around to make the higher HP...

I hear the ape engines are a thing of beauty -- flat torque curve from 5500 to redline in a free-revving screamer of an engine with a V-twin 270 deg firing interval....  unlike the firing intervals found in many other parallel twins...

Yes I'm a fanboi...   I want a Taureg...   BTW -- that 660 only makes 80 something HP not 95... makes all it's power down low from 2500 on up -- not 5500...    
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2021, 06:21:20 pm »

The FJ-09 is one of the new age sport touring bikes. Very upright with wide bars. Ride it like a supermoto instead of like a supersport. The Ninja 650 is the old style. Just depends on what each person likes more.

About HP numbers, I really don't care other than I don't like motors that don't spin up to at least 7500 rpm and have grown out of the 16,000 rpm supersports. Just show me the torque curve so I know where the bike makes its power.
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rajflyboy
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« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2021, 08:27:36 pm »


The FJ-09 is one of the new age sport touring bikes. Very upright with wide bars. Ride it like a supermoto instead of like a supersport. The Ninja 650 is the old style. Just depends on what each person likes more.

About HP numbers, I really don't care other than I don't like motors that don't spin up to at least 7500 rpm and have grown out of the 16,000 rpm supersports. Just show me the torque curve so I know where the bike makes its power.


The 600cc sport bikes are ohh so fun though
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rajflyboy
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2021, 07:46:18 am »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight-twin_engine

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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2021, 10:08:25 am »



Interesting. Does that mean a 270deg. crank in the Aprilia is a good thing ?
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2021, 11:29:42 am »




Interesting. Does that mean a 270deg. crank in the Aprilia is a good thing ?


Probably  Bigsmile
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