Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
Print

Topic: Brake Bleeding... What am I doing wrong?  (Read 16540 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Nny
SUV Boxer
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: None right now *sniff*
GPS: Palo Alto CA
Miles Typed: 796

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« on: December 16, 2006, 12:06:29 am »

I found that the rear brakes weren't working and when I took the cover off the master cylinder I found that there was no brake fluid.

I bought some brake fluid at my local BMW dealership and picked up a brake bleeding kit at Kragen.

I set up the brake bleeding kit and connected it to the brake bleed valve while it was closed to make sure it held pressure.  It did.  So I filled the master cylinder with the brake fluid and then cracked open the valve.  Well really I kinda opened it really wide because it was on really tight and I was pulling really hard to get the nut to move.  I got a little bit of fluid and then nothing but air.

I tried having someone press the brake pedal while I cracked open the valve and then closing it, but I'm still just getting air.

Any ideas?
Logged

"Empty your mind.  Be formless...  Shapeless...  Like water." -Bruce Lee
Sport-Touring
Advertisement
*


Remove Advertisements

Tony T
*

Reputation 12
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '06, '09
Motorcycles: John Deere 1200LD
GPS: Under King Richards thumb
Miles Typed: 7322

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2006, 12:24:18 am »

Press down on brake pedal then slowly open the valve. When the brake pedal is maxed-out close the valve then release the pedal.

If your system was totally dry you will need to repeat this over and over again until you get all the air out of the system. You also will probably need to keep an eye on the master cylinder and refill it as the air is pushed out of the system & makes room for the brake fluid.

The little bit of brake fluid you got on the first attempt was the old stuff that was in the system already.

 Smile
Logged

here
Nny
SUV Boxer
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: None right now *sniff*
GPS: Palo Alto CA
Miles Typed: 796

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2006, 12:27:11 am »

The pressure on the bleed pump gauge doesn't change when I push on the pedal  Should I be worried?
Logged

"Empty your mind.  Be formless...  Shapeless...  Like water." -Bruce Lee
Advertisement



Tony T
*

Reputation 12
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '06, '09
Motorcycles: John Deere 1200LD
GPS: Under King Richards thumb
Miles Typed: 7322

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2006, 12:40:50 am »

Donít know; I never used any fancy gauges, just an old fashioned wrench to bleed brakes.

But the fact that the system was very nearly dry would prompt me to check all everything for possible leaks. Brake systems tend to hold their fluid for a long, long time, unlike Harley engines & oil.  Bigsmile

What year and model is the bike? Maybe a BMW guy will pipe-in here.
Logged

here
Nny
SUV Boxer
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: None right now *sniff*
GPS: Palo Alto CA
Miles Typed: 796

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2006, 01:34:48 am »

I'm wondering if it has something to do with the ABS..  

2001 BMW F650GS Trying to bleed the rear brakes
Logged

"Empty your mind.  Be formless...  Shapeless...  Like water." -Bruce Lee
Uncle Bob
turbo passion
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Miles Typed: 753

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2006, 02:06:25 am »

the fact that the system was dry means there is either a leak in the system, or the brake pads are worn out and the system was low to begin with.  As mentioned, definitely look for leaks and check your rear brake pads

What I would recommend on bleading your brakes, first thing is, toss whatever brake bleeding "kit" you bought into the corner of the garage and forget it exists.  I don't know which particular type of setup you have, but it really doesn't matter.  

Now.  Doing this the old fashion way, close the bleed valve on the caliper, make sure there's fluid in the reservoir, then pump the brake lever multiple times.  Hold down the lever, after pumping it several times.  Then, while still holding the lever down, crack open the bleeder.  While still holding the lever down, close the bleeder.  Now release the lever, and pump it several times and repeat everything I just said.

You will eventually get all the air out using these simple steps.  That won't necessarily make everything happy.  This will remove all the air out of the system, but may not get the air out of the master cylinder.  When a master cylinder is pumped dry, sometimes air gets caught in the pressure cups and is difficult to get out.  It can require other arcane methods, such as "diddling" the lever, and/or leaving the lever actuated overnight.  But lets just get to this point and see if you have further issues, before we go there.
Logged

99 ZRX1100 - turbo'd
06 DRZ400-SM - turbo'd
86 Ninja1000R "rat bike" - turbo'd
TheRedOnesAreFaster
Had to go with a white motorcycle to slow things down a bit.
*

Reputation 29
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: Triumph Tiger Explorer XRT, Honda CB500F, Yamaha XT250
GPS: Battle Creek, MI
Miles Typed: 2006

My Photo Gallery


Rides the Maidencruiser




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2006, 05:52:20 am »

If BMW's ABS system is like Triumph's, you'll need to have the dealer bleed it for you.

Triumph's ABS system requires their diagnostic computer to tell the ABS computer to leave to control valves (or somesuch thing) to stay open during the process.  Otherwise, you'll never get the air out.

I'd ask this in the BMW forum, or call the dealer.
Logged

Not Siegfried.  Not Roy.  But I do have a white Tiger.
Nny
SUV Boxer
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: None right now *sniff*
GPS: Palo Alto CA
Miles Typed: 796

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2006, 10:32:00 am »

Thanks for the replies guys.  I did try the "old fashioned" way as well and didn't get anything.  I'm thinking that maybe the ABS is preventing me from getting the air out, but I'll check with the people in the BMW forum and probably call the dealership later.  I'll update when I get this sorted out.
Logged

"Empty your mind.  Be formless...  Shapeless...  Like water." -Bruce Lee
Woodys Euphemisms
Junior Member
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '07
Miles Typed: 305

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2006, 12:17:09 pm »

Nny, I posted this in the BMW section as well, in hopes that you would catch it in one place or the other.
Also, if you are going to be doing the work to your bike you should invest in a factory repair manual.  The procedure is laid out pretty clearly in it.  Anyway, here is the post I made over in BMW.

Not sure what your brake bleeding kit looks like, as I cant get your link to work.  Doesn't matter though.  Fill the reservoir with fluid, push down on the brake pedal and hold it, then crack the bleeder valve on the caliper.  As soon as you get fluid, close the bleeder valve, let up on the brake pedal and check to see if you have brakes.  If they are still spongy, then repeat that process.

I've never used any of the kits or anything, I usually just fit a small hose over the bleeder nipples and run the other end back into the bottle of brake fluid.  Keeps me from making TOO big of a mess.

Hope this helps.  It's the only way that I know of to bleed brakes.

P.S.  Also should have mentioned that you need to keep an eye on the brake fluid reservoir level.  Check its level and keep it at the proper level, each time after you've closed the bleeder.  Very important that the fluid remains above the hole that replenishes the brakes, otherwise you will just be drawing more air back into the system.

P.S.S.  I also should have mentioned that I dont know how your bike's brakes are set up exactly, but if they are like my ABS brakes, then your rear reservoir is actually split into 2 reservoirs.  My bikes hand lever actuates the rear and front brake, whereas the brake pedal actuates only the rear.  This necessitates the split reservoir in the rear I suppose.  I'm assuming here, that your ABS setup is going to be the same.  So make sure that your levels are good in both halves of the rear reservoir.  Also the level is very sensitive.  I get brake warning lights if my level dips the tiniest bit in either half.

Oh yeah, my bikes an 04 bmw K1200RS by the way.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 12:54:44 pm by Woody's Euphemisms » Logged


Woodys Euphemisms
Junior Member
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '07
Miles Typed: 305

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2006, 12:23:43 pm »


If BMW's ABS system is like Triumph's, you'll need to have the dealer bleed it for you.

Triumph's ABS system requires their diagnostic computer to tell the ABS computer to leave to control valves (or somesuch thing) to stay open during the process.  Otherwise, you'll never get the air out.

I'd ask this in the BMW forum, or call the dealer.


Sounds pretty strange to me.  Wouldn't this make it rather difficult to work on the bike, move it around etc. when the bike isn't running or the ignition is off ?  For that matter, why couldn't you just turn the ignition on to power the ABS computer, when you bleed the brakes ?
Logged


Windblown
Old Codger in Training
*

Reputation 33
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '04 Concours - '03 FZ1 - '05 KTM 525 - '09 CRF250X - '13 KTM 990 SM-T - '07 Yamaha R6S
GPS: Shenandoah County, VA
Miles Typed: 3540

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2006, 12:50:00 pm »


Triumph's ABS system requires their diagnostic computer to tell the ABS computer to leave to control valves (or somesuch thing) to stay open during the process.  Otherwise, you'll never get the air out.

I'd ask this in the BMW forum, or call the dealer.


If the ignition is off when you do the job the ABS cannot activate or record any weird signals it doesn't like. Done my Triumph ABS system a couple of times and also checked for proper functioning of the ABS afterwards, no problems.

However, if the system has recorded a fault then it may need to be re-set by the dealer.  My guess is that you just haven't gotten all the air out yet.

Pump-up/hold/bleed/close/repeat.  A few systems will gravity bleed but many refuse this technique.

As mentioned though, BMW guys will know if something special has to be done and an empty system points to other problems besides fluid level (which also might be why you can't it to bleed properly).

 
Logged

I may die with nothing to show for it but there will be a heck of a garage sale.
Tony T
*

Reputation 12
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '06, '09
Motorcycles: John Deere 1200LD
GPS: Under King Richards thumb
Miles Typed: 7322

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2006, 12:59:37 pm »

Besides a wrench this is the only tool I use to bleed brakes, it cuts down on the mess. Though mine has a clear tube making it easier to see what is being pumped out of the system, air or fluid.

Brake bleeder
Logged

here
Woodys Euphemisms
Junior Member
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '07
Miles Typed: 305

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2006, 01:14:36 pm »


Besides a wrench this is the only tool I use to bleed brakes, it cuts down on the mess. Though mine has a clear tube making it easier to see what is being pumped out of the system, air or fluid.

Brake bleeder


Same here.  I have several sections of clear tubing, different OD's.  I can usually find something that works, whether it be car or bike.
Logged


Uncle Bob
turbo passion
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Miles Typed: 753

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2006, 02:06:03 pm »

assuming its not a servo system, the fact that it has ABS really doesn't matter.  Its the exact same proceedure either way.

I can't speak for servo systems, I'm not familiar enough with them to comment on it.  But I blead brakes on cars every day, and 90% of them have ABS.  Exact same thing.
Logged

99 ZRX1100 - turbo'd
06 DRZ400-SM - turbo'd
86 Ninja1000R "rat bike" - turbo'd
FastCat
moving target
*

Reputation 11
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 1998 GSF-1200S and a frankengixxer!
GPS: Tacoma, WA
Miles Typed: 187

My Photo Gallery


Rest in peace.


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2006, 03:30:01 pm »

I dunno nuffin' `bout dem fancy ABS systems...

...but  I have noticed that when you run the rear master-cylinder dry, there is often a bubble of air trapped in the hose between the reservoir and the master-cylinder... fill the reservoir and then pinch the tube that connects it to the master-cylinder repeatedly until you stop seeing bubbles come up from the hose in the bottom of the reservoir.  Only then will any bleeding-efforts produce results.
Logged

The Nitrous Advice Forum
Nny
SUV Boxer
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: None right now *sniff*
GPS: Palo Alto CA
Miles Typed: 796

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2006, 09:46:35 pm »


I dunno nuffin' `bout dem fancy ABS systems...

...but  I have noticed that when you run the rear master-cylinder dry, there is often a bubble of air trapped in the hose between the reservoir and the master-cylinder... fill the reservoir and then pinch the tube that connects it to the master-cylinder repeatedly until you stop seeing bubbles come up from the hose in the bottom of the reservoir.  Only then will any bleeding-efforts produce results.


Ooh.. that's something I didn't think of...  I'll do that.  Someone in the other thread suggested putting teflon tape under the bleeder valve too and I think I may need to do that as well.  Thanks for all the help guys.
Logged

"Empty your mind.  Be formless...  Shapeless...  Like water." -Bruce Lee
TheRedOnesAreFaster
Had to go with a white motorcycle to slow things down a bit.
*

Reputation 29
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: Triumph Tiger Explorer XRT, Honda CB500F, Yamaha XT250
GPS: Battle Creek, MI
Miles Typed: 2006

My Photo Gallery


Rides the Maidencruiser




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2006, 10:33:11 pm »


assuming its not a servo system, the fact that it has ABS really doesn't matter.  Its the exact same procedure either way.




Assuming the BMW system is similar to the Triumph system, it is not.

You do need to bleed the system as you normally would.

Then you need to use the system diagnostic tool to cycle the modulator solenoids, while applying pressure to the brake lever and cracking the bleed valve.  You need to repeat this process until all air is out of the system.

Then you have to repeat the normal bleed process again.

If you don't bleed the system while the solenoids cycle, you can still have air trapped in the system and not know it.

Just turning the bike on is not enough- the solenoids need to be cycled, and the computer has to tell them to do it.

The BMW process may be different.  The only way to know is to check a shop manual or call the dealer.
Logged

Not Siegfried.  Not Roy.  But I do have a white Tiger.
Uncle Bob
turbo passion
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Miles Typed: 753

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2006, 01:04:47 am »

I would argue the details, but I'll just say, that is only for "special circumstances".  I'll leave it at that.  95% of the time, you do not need to cycle anything to blead the brakes, ABS or no.

Logged

99 ZRX1100 - turbo'd
06 DRZ400-SM - turbo'd
86 Ninja1000R "rat bike" - turbo'd
TheRedOnesAreFaster
Had to go with a white motorcycle to slow things down a bit.
*

Reputation 29
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: Triumph Tiger Explorer XRT, Honda CB500F, Yamaha XT250
GPS: Battle Creek, MI
Miles Typed: 2006

My Photo Gallery


Rides the Maidencruiser




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2006, 08:59:33 am »


I would argue the details, but I'll just say, that is only for "special circumstances".  I'll leave it at that.  95% of the time, you do not need to cycle anything to blead the brakes, ABS or no.




Well, the procedure may be different for BMW ABS.

The procedure I outlined was straight from the Triumph Service manual.

Even bleeding automotive ABS, if you want it done properly, requires special procedures beyond "step on pedal, open bleeder, close bleeder".
Logged

Not Siegfried.  Not Roy.  But I do have a white Tiger.
Uncle Bob
turbo passion
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Miles Typed: 753

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2006, 01:47:50 pm »


Even bleeding automotive ABS, if you want it done properly, requires special procedures beyond "step on pedal, open bleeder, close bleeder".


as soon as the master goes dry, the brakes stop working.  There is no air in any of the valving for the ABS modulator, whatever type it is.  The only time it would even been feasible would be if you had a leak at the modulator.  Even if you had a leak at the caliper, the same thing would happen, the master would go drop and the brakes would no longer work, which would prevent the ABS from engaging.

The only thing actuating the modulator does, is get you the tiny tiny bit of "old" fluid out of it.

So to reiterate, if you are getting air out of the system, it will never be in the ABS modulator itself.  

Just because there's a procedure in the manual, doesn't mean its necessary
Logged

99 ZRX1100 - turbo'd
06 DRZ400-SM - turbo'd
86 Ninja1000R "rat bike" - turbo'd
TheRedOnesAreFaster
Had to go with a white motorcycle to slow things down a bit.
*

Reputation 29
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: Triumph Tiger Explorer XRT, Honda CB500F, Yamaha XT250
GPS: Battle Creek, MI
Miles Typed: 2006

My Photo Gallery


Rides the Maidencruiser




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2006, 02:30:14 pm »




as soon as the master goes dry, the brakes stop working.  There is no air in any of the valving for the ABS modulator, whatever type it is.  The only time it would even been feasible would be if you had a leak at the modulator.  Even if you had a leak at the caliper, the same thing would happen, the master would go drop and the brakes would no longer work, which would prevent the ABS from engaging.

The only thing actuating the modulator does, is get you the tiny tiny bit of "old" fluid out of it.

So to reiterate, if you are getting air out of the system, it will never be in the ABS modulator itself.  

Just because there's a procedure in the manual, doesn't mean its necessary


If there is a leak in the system, at a lower point than the ABS modulator, won't air get in there then?  Or even with an empty reservoir, isn't the master cylinder forcing air into the system?

I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, just trying to increase my knowledge of how these systems work.
Logged

Not Siegfried.  Not Roy.  But I do have a white Tiger.
Uncle Bob
turbo passion
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Miles Typed: 753

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2006, 02:36:00 pm »

the modulator in its normal state (not modulating) is completely sealed off from the system.  All abs systems, no matter how they modulate the brake, must leave the system closed when not operating.  If it wasn't sealed off from the system, then the brakes wouldn't work
Logged

99 ZRX1100 - turbo'd
06 DRZ400-SM - turbo'd
86 Ninja1000R "rat bike" - turbo'd
mike goodwin
Junior Member
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 1992 BMW K75S
Miles Typed: 1157

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2006, 08:00:25 am »


I'm wondering if it has something to do with the ABS..  

2001 BMW F650GS Trying to bleed the rear brakes


Hell yes!!!
If your bike has ABS brakes then all i can say is that you better have access to a compressor and own a pneumatic brake bleeder.
Before this forum died i had a thread going in the BMW forum called appropriately
"Brake Bleeding Hell".
Most goddamn frustrating brake bleeding job i have ever done.

mike
Logged

mike
IBA 8384
Nny
SUV Boxer
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: None right now *sniff*
GPS: Palo Alto CA
Miles Typed: 796

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2006, 12:19:48 pm »

I brought it in to the local BMW dealership to get the 65 point "used bike" inspection since I don't know what I'm looking for yet and mentioned the brakes.  He came out and looked at it and said the pads needed changing first off, then hit the brake pedal and said something to the effect that I didn't have ANY rear brake.  He's going to call me later about it.  I'll keep you guys posted.
Logged

"Empty your mind.  Be formless...  Shapeless...  Like water." -Bruce Lee
Nny
SUV Boxer
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: None right now *sniff*
GPS: Palo Alto CA
Miles Typed: 796

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2006, 07:04:20 pm »

Okay..  I'm a dumbass apparently.  After taking the cap off the brake fluid resivoir there's another rubber piece that needs to come up to actually put brake fluid in...  Nuts  I was just filling it on top of the rubber thing because I couldn't see down further into the thing to realize it was a 2nd cover.  I thought it filled up awfully fast..  Lol *sigh*

So my other problem is that I have a leak in my brake line going from the master cylinder to the caliper.  They're ordering the hose and it should be in on Thursday.
Logged

"Empty your mind.  Be formless...  Shapeless...  Like water." -Bruce Lee
happybusa
I am what I am. moto-addicted.
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: FJR, Vee Strom, Tiger900
GPS: Orange, MA
Miles Typed: 228

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2006, 09:30:38 pm »


Okay..  I'm a dumbass apparently.  After taking the cap off the brake fluid resivoir there's another rubber piece that needs to come up to actually put brake fluid in...  Nuts  I was just filling it on top of the rubber thing because I couldn't see down further into the thing to realize it was a 2nd cover.  I thought it filled up awfully fast..  Lol *sigh*

So my other problem is that I have a leak in my brake line going from the master cylinder to the caliper.  They're ordering the hose and it should be in on Thursday.


THATS A GOOD ONE!  I don't know if I can top that,BUT....

I tried bleeding a rear caliper once and the brake  refused
to work well;
until I noticed I had TWO bleeder screws on the caliper.
The second one was on the backside.
One more try on each screw did it.

My friend says "even a BLIND pig finds an acorn once in awhile"
I told him acorns are bigger than bleed screws.
 Twofinger



Sully
Logged

A good friend will help you move, A best friend will
help you move bodies.
mike goodwin
Junior Member
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 1992 BMW K75S
Miles Typed: 1157

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2006, 07:42:16 am »


Okay..  I'm a dumbass apparently.  After taking the cap off the brake fluid resivoir there's another rubber piece that needs to come up to actually put brake fluid in...  Nuts  I was just filling it on top of the rubber thing because I couldn't see down further into the thing to realize it was a 2nd cover.  I thought it filled up awfully fast..  Lol *sigh*

So my other problem is that I have a leak in my brake line going from the master cylinder to the caliper.  They're ordering the hose and it should be in on Thursday.


If your BMW is an ABS model then the dealer will absolutely have to use a pneumatic bleeder because once the system is opened up to the atmosphere there is no other way to get that air out of that complex system.
However the first time you have to get on your brakes in the rain for all they are worth you will thank BMW for putting that complex system on that bike. Thumbsup
But it is a pain in the ass to work on. Sad

mike
Logged

mike
IBA 8384
BigHoss
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '09
Motorcycles: ST1300, CBR 1100XX, 1100 Hypermotard
GPS: ABQ
Miles Typed: 312

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2006, 10:12:31 pm »

New bikes have so many areas for air to hide in the lines, I have resorted to reverse bleeding and this has worked for me.

Only problem is you have to have a resevoir cap to butcher, drill it and thread a bleeder to it with a tube to a jar so you don't get fluid everywhere.
Logged

In 2003 as Hurricane Isabelle was approaching Washington , DC , our
US Senate/House took 2 days off with anticipation of the storm. On the ABC
Evening news, it was reported that because of the dange
def38
Dennis
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: BMW R1150GS, '01
GPS: County Line, AL
Miles Typed: 153

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2006, 12:11:07 am »




Ooh.. that's something I didn't think of...  I'll do that.  Someone in the other thread suggested putting teflon tape under the bleeder valve too and I think I may need to do that as well.  Thanks for all the help guys.


DO NOT USE TEFLON TAPE ON ANY BRAKE SYSTEM FITTINGS.....IT CAN KILL YOU.

To bleed your brake system that is now full of air, take an empty milk jug and make a hole near the neck to tightly accommodate a piece of flexible tubing that fits on the bleeder nut. Put your shop vac suction hose into the neck of the milk jug. Attach the tubing to the bleeder nut. Remove all brake fluid from the reservoir. Inspect the bottom of the reservoir for debris and crud which may be blocking the fluid port. Clean the reservoir with an appropriate cleaner and remove all cleaner. Fill the clean reservoir with DOT4. Turn on the vac and open the bleeder nut slightly watching the fluid level in the reservoir. Continue to refill the reservoir with fresh DOT4 until you have completely exchanged at least one reservoir of DOT4. Snug the bleeder nut and button everything back up. And do not let your brake fluid run dry ever again or we'll be reading about you in the obits.
Logged
Uncle Bob
turbo passion
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Miles Typed: 753

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2006, 12:37:38 am »

most things involving brakes can kill you Bigsmile

Teflon tape is not only dangerous in a brake system, its also completely pointless.  Bleeders seal at the flare on the end of the bleeder screw seating, the threads do nothing but apply tension to the flare.  Putting teflon on the threads just makes you feel better.  

The common belief that air snakes past the threads is completely false.  you do not rely on "seeing" air bubbles using a mity-vac or other such devices, to decide if all the air is out.  

Its another reason why I don't use such devices for bleeding systems.   I know it goes against the grain of many on bike forums, but IMO, such miracle devices create more problems than they solve.  They don't speed up the bleeding process.  They do not remove air from the system "better".  A wrench and a firm understanding of how the system works will do way better any day than magical tools.
Logged

99 ZRX1100 - turbo'd
06 DRZ400-SM - turbo'd
86 Ninja1000R "rat bike" - turbo'd
mike goodwin
Junior Member
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 1992 BMW K75S
Miles Typed: 1157

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2006, 08:46:59 am »

Perhaps that is so Bob while brake bleeding a m/c that uses a standard hydraulic brake system but i will tell you in no uncertain terms that if a bike has ABS brakes like my BMW K75S and the system gets air into it you will bleed that thing until the second coming and you still wont get the air out of the system unless you do use a strong vacuum method.
And a hand held MityVac wont get it done either.
A compressor hooked up to a pneumatic MityVac will though.


mike
Logged

mike
IBA 8384
photomd
Thread Killa
*

Reputation 14
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '06, '08
GPS: In the Land of Cotton (SC)
Miles Typed: 2146

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2006, 08:55:22 am »

I'll respectfully disagree. I've replaced the master cylinder on my oilhead with ABS. I completely drained the system, replaced it and filled it up again. I use a mityvac: handheld. It worked fine as it has on my TDI VW, my Montero and every other vehicle I've owned over the last 10+ years.

Now the oilhead did take some tapping here and there, cracking the banjo bolt at the master cylinder, but with patience and feel, it was back to normal inside of an hour.

Please keep in mind that I'm not disagreeing that you had trouble. I've never done a K75. I'm disagreeing that every vehicle with ABS is difficult.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 09:51:39 am by photomd » Logged

98 CR250
96 R1100RS
88 R100RS 79 V-1000SP
Uncle Bob
turbo passion
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Miles Typed: 753

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2006, 01:01:21 pm »

I didn't say they don't work.  I said they do nothing "better"
Logged

99 ZRX1100 - turbo'd
06 DRZ400-SM - turbo'd
86 Ninja1000R "rat bike" - turbo'd
photomd
Thread Killa
*

Reputation 14
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '06, '08
GPS: In the Land of Cotton (SC)
Miles Typed: 2146

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2006, 01:04:58 pm »

UB...I wasn't disagree with you. I disagree that all ABS vehicles are a pain. I think that most methods work fine: pump the brakes, mityvacs, syringes, pneumatic pumps, whatever.

I wasn't clear. I use a mityvac 'cause it's easier as I usually don't have a helper.
Logged

98 CR250
96 R1100RS
88 R100RS 79 V-1000SP
MacGyver
MUST WIN TRACKDAY!!!
*

Reputation 37
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '10
Years Supported: '11, '12
Motorcycles: Ducati ST4
Miles Typed: 1366

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2006, 05:24:11 pm »




DO NOT USE TEFLON TAPE ON ANY BRAKE SYSTEM FITTINGS.....IT CAN KILL YOU.

To bleed your brake system that is now full of air, take an empty milk jug and make a hole near the neck to tightly accommodate a piece of flexible tubing that fits on the bleeder nut. Put your shop vac suction hose into the neck of the milk jug. Attach the tubing to the bleeder nut. Remove all brake fluid from the reservoir. Inspect the bottom of the reservoir for debris and crud which may be blocking the fluid port. Clean the reservoir with an appropriate cleaner and remove all cleaner. Fill the clean reservoir with DOT4. Turn on the vac and open the bleeder nut slightly watching the fluid level in the reservoir. Continue to refill the reservoir with fresh DOT4 until you have completely exchanged at least one reservoir of DOT4. Snug the bleeder nut and button everything back up. And do not let your brake fluid run dry ever again or we'll be reading about you in the obits.


A little trick that will help expedite the process is smearing a dab of wheel bearing grease on the outside perimeter of the bleeder screw threads right where air can enter in.  The biggest PITA with a vacuum bleeder is air getting pulled in thru the threads and you sit there wondering if all the bubbles heading towards the vacuum source are doing anything.   Also, don't remove the vacuum source until you have tightened the bleeder screw.  

I fabbed up an itty bitty pressure plate that seals over the top of most motorcycle master cylinder reservoirs. Which allows me to attach a pressure vessel that constantly keeps fresh fluid pumped into the M/C at approx 5~10 psi depending on what fancies me.  Makes a thorough flush very quick.
Logged

"All I want to do is ride somewhere and watch the shadows climb..."
Nny
SUV Boxer
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: None right now *sniff*
GPS: Palo Alto CA
Miles Typed: 796

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2006, 06:48:20 pm »


I fabbed up an itty bitty pressure plate that seals over the top of most motorcycle master cylinder reservoirs. Which allows me to attach a pressure vessel that constantly keeps fresh fluid pumped into the M/C at approx 5~10 psi depending on what fancies me.  Makes a thorough flush very quick.


Well since you're macGyver I bet you could have made one out of chewing gum and a straw..   Lol

I should get my bike back again tonight..  Total, for the the 65 pt check and the hose + installation is $290.  I'm going to e-mail the guy who sold me the bike and see if I can't get him to refund a bit of my money as this was obviously a problem before I got the bike from him.
Logged

"Empty your mind.  Be formless...  Shapeless...  Like water." -Bruce Lee
def38
Dennis
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: BMW R1150GS, '01
GPS: County Line, AL
Miles Typed: 153

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2006, 08:44:03 pm »

When bleeding with vacuum through the bleeder nut, you'll always get some air bubbles.
Logged
MacGyver
MUST WIN TRACKDAY!!!
*

Reputation 37
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '10
Years Supported: '11, '12
Motorcycles: Ducati ST4
Miles Typed: 1366

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2006, 11:47:55 pm »

Quote

When bleeding with vacuum through the bleeder nut, you'll always get some air bubbles.  


Use the grease, it's your friend.  Inlove
« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 11:49:45 pm by MacGyver » Logged

"All I want to do is ride somewhere and watch the shadows climb..."
Montyburns
Junior Member
*

Reputation 12
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2005 Triumph Sprint ST
GPS: Seattle, Washington
Miles Typed: 339

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2006, 08:22:19 pm »


Okay..  I'm a dumbass apparently.  After taking the cap off the brake fluid resivoir there's another rubber piece that needs to come up to actually put brake fluid in...  Nuts  I was just filling it on top of the rubber thing because I couldn't see down further into the thing to realize it was a 2nd cover.  I thought it filled up awfully fast..  Lol *sigh*

So my other problem is that I have a leak in my brake line going from the master cylinder to the caliper.  They're ordering the hose and it should be in on Thursday.


 Lol Lol Lol  I was following this thread from the beginning to see how it ended and hopefully learn something along the way.  I certainly didn't see that coming!  That's nothing short of hilarious.  

P.S.  I can make fun b/c I've done things equally as stupid.  
Logged

I'm not embarrassed to be with you.  I'm embarrassed to be seen with you.
Nny
SUV Boxer
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: None right now *sniff*
GPS: Palo Alto CA
Miles Typed: 796

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2007, 05:20:51 pm »

I've never had a master cylinder on anything with a 2nd cover before.  My rear brake feels much better now and actually slows me down..  Lol
Logged

"Empty your mind.  Be formless...  Shapeless...  Like water." -Bruce Lee
def38
Dennis
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: BMW R1150GS, '01
GPS: County Line, AL
Miles Typed: 153

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2007, 10:23:19 am »


I'll respectfully disagree. I've replaced the master cylinder on my oilhead with ABS. I completely drained the system, replaced it and filled it up again. I use a mityvac: handheld. It worked fine as it has on my TDI VW, my Montero and every other vehicle I've owned over the last 10+ years.

Now the oilhead did take some tapping here and there, cracking the banjo bolt at the master cylinder, but with patience and feel, it was back to normal inside of an hour.

Please keep in mind that I'm not disagreeing that you had trouble. I've never done a K75. I'm disagreeing that every vehicle with ABS is difficult.



If a mechanic at the BMW shop can do it, so can you. The difference is, you need a reference to refer to....like the BMW Repair CD Manual or some other reliable reference.

There is NO MAGIC to maintaining and repairing these motorcycles we ride...mere mortal man can fix it......so can you!
Logged
JimWilliamson
*

Reputation 30
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '06, '07, '08, '09, '10
Years Supported: '11
GPS: Fort Collins, CO
Miles Typed: 2486

My Photo Gallery



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2007, 09:59:35 pm »

Only problem is you have to have a resevoir cap to butcher, drill it and thread a bleeder to it with a tube to a jar so you don't get fluid everywhere.


For those with rectangular metal tops for the master cylinders (instead of plastic screw on caps) you can made a similar thing with some rubber gasket material and some 1/4" thick clear plastic. Drill two holes for some hardware store / longer screws. One larger hole in the middle for a hose connection. Cut the center out of the gasket (for the tube connection) and to see inside of the reservoir. Pix available if interested.
Logged
RodRides
*

Reputation 0
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 04 & 06 VFR, 08 Sprint ST, 05 R1200GS
Miles Typed: 4

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2020, 11:27:42 am »

Motorcycle brake bleeding 101.  See video

https://youtu.be/m2Gu0ExObrw
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  



ST.N

Copyright © 2001 - 2013 Sport-Touring.Net.
All rights reserved.

 
SimplePortal 2.3.1 © 2008-2009, SimplePortal