Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11   Go Down
Print

Topic: My ZX14 in Sport Touring Mode  (Read 135233 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Volfy
*

Reputation 19
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '15 300RR, '15 250XCF-W, '14 Trophy SE, '10 VFR1200
Miles Typed: 1081

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #140 on: August 22, 2015, 06:14:23 pm »


Will it work?   Yes

Will it work well?...no

I've had a number of ZX14's and will offer the following solution:

Find a 06-07 Gen 1 header. The pipe diameter is smaller which will help at lower rpm's.
08-11 header has a catalytic converter built into it so don't use one.
Find 06-07 Gen 1 mufflers and cut the pipes off, then weld an adapter on to fit the muffler.
Pics available of a set I have. The RS-77 mufflers have a 2 1/4" ID.
This combo will give you more low end, allow u to use the center stand, and allow you to add bags if you decide to.
Hank
I've been all through this on my bikes.

Thanks for the suggestions.  That is very close to my train of thought.  I do plan on adding a center stand, and later, SW Motech Racks for the Givi 35's I already have, which is partly why I'm converting to a single-side system, like Yoshi's Full System (see attached pic).  As nice as the Akra headers are, they are ultra free flowing to do what nost ZX14R owners want, which is max HP gain, especially towards the top end.  Well... I'm not most ZX14R owners... as I actually want to go the other way. Lol  I wish my insurance company would listen to me and take that into account... fat chance.

For a start, I am cooking with what I got already.  I'll see how the single R77 goes, then switch to the longer TRS can just for giggles.  Easy swap anyway.  If I think there is still room for "improvement", then I'll move upstream to the headers.  Actually, if I have my druthers, I'll drop in C14's 1352cc with VVT.  That '09 C14 had exactly the kind of power characterstics I'm after.  Too bad it weighed 700 lbs.

Thankfully, mine didn't come with the stock potato guns.  Smile  Even if it did, I wouldn't put them back on.  Crazy  By my estimation, my ZX14R is sitting at about 540 lbs RTR right now.  Swapping in the Shorai batt will delete another 5 lbs.  The just arrived SW Motech Alu Rack will add about 6 lbs.  Center Stand and pannier racks another 15.  What I'm after is a hyper sport tourer about 550 lbs before luggage, with an abundance of smooth power, and mildly aggressive ergos.

I do apologize if I offend the sensibilities of some ZX14 owners.  I thought of all the Big Ninja threads, my wacky thoughts here might ruffle the least amount of feathers.  Lol
Logged
Sport-Touring
Advertisement
*


Remove Advertisements

HanksXXX
*

Reputation 3
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2007 ZX-14, 2000 Turbo Bandit
GPS: Augusta NJ
Miles Typed: 258

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #141 on: August 22, 2015, 06:22:04 pm »

Be aware that the center stand is not a consideration with a lot of aftermarket manufacturers.
You may find the Akra out the right only still doesn't clear or it may...trial and error.
No offense taken here, make it your's!
Logged
Silverbird
*

Reputation 13
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '16 FJR1300 '07 919
GPS: Failville, CO
Miles Typed: 1625

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #142 on: August 23, 2015, 02:50:08 pm »


Will it work?   Yes

Will it work well?...no

I've had a number of ZX14's and will offer the following solution:

Find a 06-07 Gen 1 header. The pipe diameter is smaller which will help at lower rpm's.
08-11 header has a catalytic converter built into it so don't use one.
Find 06-07 Gen 1 mufflers and cut the pipes off, then weld an adapter on to fit the muffler.
Pics available of a set I have. The RS-77 mufflers have a 2 1/4" ID.
This combo will give you more low end, allow u to use the center stand, and allow you to add bags if you decide to.
Hank
I've been all through this on my bikes.


I'm being told by some the Gen 1 head will not fit the 14R's, some say it will.  I already bought the header. Does your number of ZX14's include the 14R?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 02:59:10 pm by Silverbird » Logged
Advertisement



HanksXXX
*

Reputation 3
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2007 ZX-14, 2000 Turbo Bandit
GPS: Augusta NJ
Miles Typed: 258

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #143 on: August 23, 2015, 05:16:06 pm »

Yes, I have a 14r now.
Can't imagine why a header won't interchange..
Ivan (Ivan's Performance Products) uses the first gen Akro's on the r models regularly.
I want to re-install the centerstand and am in the process of finding an early header to go with the modified midpipes I have already.
Like the original poster, I'm more interested in low and mid range than a couple horsepower up top.
FYI, the Yosh mid pipes I currently have with the OEM header measure 2 1/4" OD.
They are very nicely bent and probably flow like crazy compared to the OEM first gen mid pipes.
I am not sure at what point they will show a HP loss, maybe not at all.
Ivan told me the OEM r pipes are too big as is the r Akro, that's why he uses the first gen Akro.
Next thing I'm going to do is the 06-07 header and oem mid pipes on my r with the Yosh R-77's and centerstand.
I'm fairly confident it will do exactly what I want.
Logged
Silverbird
*

Reputation 13
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '16 FJR1300 '07 919
GPS: Failville, CO
Miles Typed: 1625

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #144 on: August 23, 2015, 05:52:25 pm »

Ok cool, going see how it goes. Id have to imagine it running better than the stock system on my R. Lose some weight to without the stupid cats
Logged
HanksXXX
*

Reputation 3
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2007 ZX-14, 2000 Turbo Bandit
GPS: Augusta NJ
Miles Typed: 258

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #145 on: August 23, 2015, 09:19:02 pm »

Be aware that the r midpipes don't work with the 06-07 header...the bends (exit points) are different..
Logged
Volfy
*

Reputation 19
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '15 300RR, '15 250XCF-W, '14 Trophy SE, '10 VFR1200
Miles Typed: 1081

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #146 on: August 23, 2015, 09:50:24 pm »

My understanding is that '11 and earlier headers include a cat before the Y, whereas '12+ relocated the cats to the potato guns, correct?  Also, by mid pipe, are you referring to the section between the "Y" and the muffler?  Or are you talking about the section between the individual down pipes and the "Y"?  I thought the OEM "headers" is one welded assembly all the way to the "Y".

Yes, the idea is to keep the exhaust gas velocity high in the RPM range most important to the rider, for better throttle response, more consistent fueling, and of course more HP.  The over-sized aftermarket pipes, and the '12+ headers to some extent, favors upper RPM, where the gas volume is great.  Then at low + mid RPM ranges, where less gas volume means slower velocity, "streetability" is compromised.  The same applies to the intake side.  This is volumetric efficiency.

Truth be told, I do not expect any effect of my tinkering to be dramatic.  It'll likely be subtle, which is why I'm not dumping a lot of time and money into the effort.  I would regard any "improvement" in my favor to be side benefit of accommodating the center stand and hard luggage, which is really my main goal.  We are talking about setting up ZX14's in sport touring mode, no?  Smile

In any case, it's fun to tinker, and partly why I kept swapping bikes.  Once I get a bike all sorted out, I lose the excuse to scratch that tinkering itch.

Anyhow, still too darn hot around here so I didn't get much done other than installing the SW Motech Alu Rack and Cortech tank bag ring.  Hopefully the temps will start to drop some from this point on.  

Any of you ever tried Brock's center stand stop?  It is supposed to let the CS rest on it, in case aftermarket exhaust has no provisions for CS stop.
Logged
HanksXXX
*

Reputation 3
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2007 ZX-14, 2000 Turbo Bandit
GPS: Augusta NJ
Miles Typed: 258

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #147 on: August 24, 2015, 08:20:25 am »

There is no catalytic converter in the front section (header) of the 06-07 bikes. They were in the mufflers.
In 2008 and thru 2011, there were 3 catalytic converters, one in each muffler and one in the header.
In 2012, the r model, there is no catalytic converter in the header but 1 in each muffler.
There are 2 different size collars that fir between the header and mid pipe with the 06-07 having 1 size and the 08-11 having another.
This was done since the exits on the 08-11 header were slightly larger, probably to accommodate flow with the catalytic converter added.
The mid pipe I was referring to is the section of pipe between the header and the muffler.
This pipe is separate on aftermarket exhaust systems but welded to the factory mufflers.
I cut the mid pipes from a pair of 06-07 mufflers and welded a very short section of 2" OD exhaust pipe to each.
Before welding, I mounted everything on the bike to be sure the mufflers would clear the Givi bags, marked them and welded them.
The first mufflers I tried were to loud so off they came.
I bought a set of Scorpions and they were to loud too.
I had to make adapters to slide over the 2" pipe I welded to the mid pipe to use 2 1/4" ID mufflers. such as the R-77's.
Moving to the 2012r model, I tried my mid pipes but the wouldn't fit with the 2012 header.
Presently, I have the Yosh mid pipes and mufflers but no center stand,
I am going to install an 06-07 header over the winter, utilizing my custom mid pipes with the R-77's, so I can use the center stand.
You loose the little wing or fairing under the rear of the motor with the center stand which doesn't bother me at all.
The factory mid pipes have a stop for the center stand.
The factory lift handle does not work with SW Motec racks for the Givi's.
Yes, Broc does have a center stand stop available but I never tried it.
For those of you still awake and reading, I wanted to clarify what I'd done and not done so as not to confuse anyone.
And yeah, my bike is a great sport tourer with Givi's, LSL handlebar kit, Corbin peg lowering kit, radar detector' and heated gear plug..
I have a modified stock seat with cowl for solo use and a dual Sargent when the wife rides.
Ride safe...
Hank
Logged
Blue is Best
Light is right
*

Reputation 251
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2012 FJR1300 & 2016 Bandit 1250
GPS: Rio Rancho, NM
Miles Typed: 2303

My Photo Gallery


Blue motorcycles are fastest




Ignore
« Reply #148 on: August 24, 2015, 10:36:05 am »

The Kawasaki center stand kit comes with a rubber bumper for the stock pipe that the CS stops against. Since I have an after market pipe I had to make a stop myself. The frame has two pre-drilled holes that mount the spring attachment point thingie. I used 3/4" strap about 8"(?) long bolted in the two holes in the frame. I put a rubber bumper on the CS. Bingo!

About exhaust flow and low end vs top end. Big mistake when I hear bench racers saying four strokes NEED back pressure. A great running engine needs proper timing of the scavenging effect of exhaust flow. Exhaust gas/wave travels at about the speed of sound. A slower running engine needs a longer, and/or larger(slows down exhaust travel speed), pipe to properly time the benefits of flow. Then a high RPM engine needs a shorter pipe due to the limited time between exhaust valve opening and closing. And too much back pressure goofs everything up.

I would never put a 14(1352cc) pipe on a 14R(1443cc). If I wanted more performance out of a 14R aimed at lower RPM, and since no one makes a torque pipe for a torque monster,  I'd find a stock pipe and put on slip ons.
Logged

Past bikes: Dirt- '74 MX360, SC500 x 2, '77 YZ400, '78 YZ400, '83 CR250, '85 CR250, '86 CR250   
 Street- '74 S3400, H1500, '72 H2750 x 2, '78 GS1000C, GS1000EC x 2, '80 GS1000S, '00 1200 Bandit, '05 FJR1300, '07 ZX14, '06 FJR1300(2 wks), '12 FJR1300
HanksXXX
*

Reputation 3
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2007 ZX-14, 2000 Turbo Bandit
GPS: Augusta NJ
Miles Typed: 258

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #149 on: August 24, 2015, 11:53:36 am »

and installing slip ons will enhance low end performance how?
Logged
Volfy
*

Reputation 19
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '15 300RR, '15 250XCF-W, '14 Trophy SE, '10 VFR1200
Miles Typed: 1081

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #150 on: August 24, 2015, 12:13:39 pm »

Hank, thanks for taking the time to explain and list out what you've done.  That helps a lot.  Bigok

In addition to the stock 14R seat that came with the bike, I have a stock 14 seat (without cowl) and a C14 OEM low seat, leftover parts from my C14 days.  I've got the older 14 seat on it now, since the SW Motech Alu Rack will not work with the cowled stock seat.  I'm gonna try the C14 low seat to see how it works on the ZX.  It was very comfy on the C14, and looks great too.

Blue, to clarify again, I'm not mucking with the exhaust just to boost HP/torque down low.  As I said, the primary driver is accommodating touring gear.  I am, however, interested in how the engine responds to the changes.  I'm betting my guesses are correct, but I'll be more than happy to settle for whatever configuration I have at my disposal that'll get me the best compromises.

Nobody here mentioned back pressure.  This is far too simplistic a view on how exhaust tuning works.  I've messed with engines big and small, 4stroke and 2stroke, to have a good understanding, both theoretical POV and practical experience.  I remember back in the days of playing with tuned pipe on 2stroke glow engines for RC airplanes.  Talk about "tuning"... that was literally tuning the length of the pipe and watch for max prop RPM.  Back pressure, as it relates to port stuffing and scavenging, is much more relevant for 2stroke.  4 stroke exhaust tuning is much more nuanced.
Logged
Silverbird
*

Reputation 13
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '16 FJR1300 '07 919
GPS: Failville, CO
Miles Typed: 1625

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #151 on: August 24, 2015, 02:14:15 pm »


The Kawasaki center stand kit comes with a rubber bumper for the stock pipe that the CS stops against. Since I have an after market pipe I had to make a stop myself. The frame has two pre-drilled holes that mount the spring attachment point thingie. I used 3/4" strap about 8"(?) long bolted in the two holes in the frame. I put a rubber bumper on the CS. Bingo!

About exhaust flow and low end vs top end. Big mistake when I hear bench racers saying four strokes NEED back pressure. A great running engine needs proper timing of the scavenging effect of exhaust flow. Exhaust gas/wave travels at about the speed of sound. A slower running engine needs a longer, and/or larger(slows down exhaust travel speed), pipe to properly time the benefits of flow. Then a high RPM engine needs a shorter pipe due to the limited time between exhaust valve opening and closing. And too much back pressure goofs everything up.

I would never put a 14(1352cc) pipe on a 14R(1443cc). If I wanted more performance out of a 14R aimed at lower RPM, and since no one makes a torque pipe for a torque monster,  I'd find a stock pipe and put on slip ons.


Say what? I
Logged
Silverbird
*

Reputation 13
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '16 FJR1300 '07 919
GPS: Failville, CO
Miles Typed: 1625

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #152 on: August 24, 2015, 02:15:16 pm »

If Ivan says the small diameter header works better on the '12+ bikes I'll go with what he says thank you very much.
Logged
Blue is Best
Light is right
*

Reputation 251
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2012 FJR1300 & 2016 Bandit 1250
GPS: Rio Rancho, NM
Miles Typed: 2303

My Photo Gallery


Blue motorcycles are fastest




Ignore
« Reply #153 on: August 24, 2015, 04:19:46 pm »


If Ivan says the small diameter header works better on the '12+ bikes I'll go with what he says thank you very much.


OK, I'm not going to presume to be smarter than Ivan but the law of physics and smarter tuners than us have said different. You are welcome very much.
Logged

Past bikes: Dirt- '74 MX360, SC500 x 2, '77 YZ400, '78 YZ400, '83 CR250, '85 CR250, '86 CR250   
 Street- '74 S3400, H1500, '72 H2750 x 2, '78 GS1000C, GS1000EC x 2, '80 GS1000S, '00 1200 Bandit, '05 FJR1300, '07 ZX14, '06 FJR1300(2 wks), '12 FJR1300
Blue is Best
Light is right
*

Reputation 251
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2012 FJR1300 & 2016 Bandit 1250
GPS: Rio Rancho, NM
Miles Typed: 2303

My Photo Gallery


Blue motorcycles are fastest




Ignore
« Reply #154 on: August 24, 2015, 04:22:02 pm »


and installing slip ons will enhance low end performance how?


OK again, you guys are smarter than me. I took the above question to be sarcastic.
Logged

Past bikes: Dirt- '74 MX360, SC500 x 2, '77 YZ400, '78 YZ400, '83 CR250, '85 CR250, '86 CR250   
 Street- '74 S3400, H1500, '72 H2750 x 2, '78 GS1000C, GS1000EC x 2, '80 GS1000S, '00 1200 Bandit, '05 FJR1300, '07 ZX14, '06 FJR1300(2 wks), '12 FJR1300
HanksXXX
*

Reputation 3
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2007 ZX-14, 2000 Turbo Bandit
GPS: Augusta NJ
Miles Typed: 258

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #155 on: August 24, 2015, 05:22:41 pm »




OK again, you guys are smarter than me. I took the above question to be sarcastic.


It really wasn't meant to be sarcastic nor was I ball busting.
You stated adding slip ons would enhance low end and I asked how.
As far as Ivan goes, he and I are old friends and I've had a good number of my project bikes on his dyno.
He owns a 14r and has tried the new design Akro on it as well as the first gen design.
He likes the first gen pipe on the r model because the pipes are a smaller diameter and has dyno sheets to make his point.
Knowing that, I wanted to try the first gen header on an r model and I still plan to do so...as soon as the road department salts the roads and I stop riding for the season. Till then, its ride every day I can...Smile
Logged
Volfy
*

Reputation 19
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '15 300RR, '15 250XCF-W, '14 Trophy SE, '10 VFR1200
Miles Typed: 1081

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #156 on: August 24, 2015, 05:45:02 pm »

What's the old racer's saying?  There is no free lunch.  Unless you fundamentally change the engine design, all the intake and exhaust tuning is an exercise of robbing Peter to pay Paul.  Regardless of yr and state of tune, it has stupid power anywhere in the rev band.

For me, that is precisely why I ride these open class sportbikes... because they got so much power and torque, I don't have to tweak both ends to make the darn engine breathe just right for me to be happy.  Heck I chopped off some 5-6" off my VFR1200's 2Bro Titanium can for no other reason than to fit under the Givi V35 pannier.  The result was so freaking loud I stuff a dB killer in there to quiet it down.  I have absolutely no doubt I messed up the exhaust tuning so bad it wasn't even funny.  Do I give a sh!t?!  Heck no!  That 1237cc V4 still got so much pull it pegs my Smile Per Mile meter every time I ride it.  Other VFR1200 owners get all bent out of shape with derestricting this and reflash that, I have never felt the need to do any of that to mine, other than to ride the poop out of it for the past 3yrs +.

I'm regretting why I even bothered to bring up the topic of exhaust tuning.  Okay, I lied... it's fun to talk about it.  Lol  Point is... guys, it's a great platform that is powerful and flexible enough to us all to make it into what we want out of it, be it 9sec 1/4 or sport touring sniffing the flowers at 120+.  I bet I can stuff a couple of potatos into the R77 slip-ons, and just what leaks out of pipe slip joints will let the ZX14R blow past my VFR1200.

There... I said it.
Logged
Blue is Best
Light is right
*

Reputation 251
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2012 FJR1300 & 2016 Bandit 1250
GPS: Rio Rancho, NM
Miles Typed: 2303

My Photo Gallery


Blue motorcycles are fastest




Ignore
« Reply #157 on: August 24, 2015, 06:26:27 pm »




It really wasn't meant to be sarcastic nor was I ball busting.
You stated adding slip ons would enhance low end and I asked how.
As far as Ivan goes, he and I are old friends and I've had a good number of my project bikes on his dyno.
He owns a 14r and has tried the new design Akro on it as well as the first gen design.
He likes the first gen pipe on the r model because the pipes are a smaller diameter and has dyno sheets to make his point.
Knowing that, I wanted to try the first gen header on an r model and I still plan to do so...as soon as the road department salts the roads and I stop riding for the season. Till then, its ride every day I can...Smile


Everything is good.   Bigok

Wish I had a friend with a dyno. Putting slip ons in place of potato launchers will eliminate two plugs(catalytic converters) and reduce back pressure. Has to help. I would love to see these dyno sheets on small pipes on a bigger engine.
Logged

Past bikes: Dirt- '74 MX360, SC500 x 2, '77 YZ400, '78 YZ400, '83 CR250, '85 CR250, '86 CR250   
 Street- '74 S3400, H1500, '72 H2750 x 2, '78 GS1000C, GS1000EC x 2, '80 GS1000S, '00 1200 Bandit, '05 FJR1300, '07 ZX14, '06 FJR1300(2 wks), '12 FJR1300
Blue is Best
Light is right
*

Reputation 251
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2012 FJR1300 & 2016 Bandit 1250
GPS: Rio Rancho, NM
Miles Typed: 2303

My Photo Gallery


Blue motorcycles are fastest




Ignore
« Reply #158 on: August 24, 2015, 06:32:44 pm »


What's the old racer's saying?  There is no free lunch.  Unless you fundamentally change the engine design, all the intake and exhaust tuning is an exercise of robbing Peter to pay Paul.  Regardless of yr and state of tune, it has stupid power anywhere in the rev band.

For me, that is precisely why I ride these open class sportbikes... because they got so much power and torque, I don't have to tweak both ends to make the darn engine breathe just right for me to be happy.  Heck I chopped off some 5-6" off my VFR1200's 2Bro Titanium can for no other reason than to fit under the Givi V35 pannier.  The result was so freaking loud I stuff a dB killer in there to quiet it down.  I have absolutely no doubt I messed up the exhaust tuning so bad it wasn't even funny.  Do I give a sh!t?!  Heck no!  That 1237cc V4 still got so much pull it pegs my Smile Per Mile meter every time I ride it.  Other VFR1200 owners get all bent out of shape with derestricting this and reflash that, I have never felt the need to do any of that to mine, other than to ride the poop out of it for the past 3yrs +.

I'm regretting why I even bothered to bring up the topic of exhaust tuning.  Okay, I lied... it's fun to talk about it.  Lol  Point is... guys, it's a great platform that is powerful and flexible enough to us all to make it into what we want out of it, be it 9sec 1/4 or sport touring sniffing the flowers at 120+.  I bet I can stuff a couple of potatos into the R77 slip-ons, and just what leaks out of pipe slip joints will let the ZX14R blow past my VFR1200.

There... I said it.


I have always had high HP bikes. Always give me a lot of HP. Because a lot can be managed but if you need more........ too bad, so sad.

Months ago I talked my friend into riding my ZX14. He had never even sat on a bike with over 90 HP. I told him to do everything slow and short shift. He loved it. Should have seen the smile on his face. He shifted every gear at 3,000 RPMs and said "wow, this thing doesn't care what gear you are in". That's the point!!!!!!!!!!
Logged

Past bikes: Dirt- '74 MX360, SC500 x 2, '77 YZ400, '78 YZ400, '83 CR250, '85 CR250, '86 CR250   
 Street- '74 S3400, H1500, '72 H2750 x 2, '78 GS1000C, GS1000EC x 2, '80 GS1000S, '00 1200 Bandit, '05 FJR1300, '07 ZX14, '06 FJR1300(2 wks), '12 FJR1300
HanksXXX
*

Reputation 3
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2007 ZX-14, 2000 Turbo Bandit
GPS: Augusta NJ
Miles Typed: 258

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #159 on: August 24, 2015, 07:22:28 pm »

Blue...third dyno chart down...old style Akro on r model:
http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/12zx142.htm

Volfy...no free lunch...well in the case of the ZX14's, the motor is restricted/detuned...an ecu flash corrects that.
But I get your point and in general agree with it.

None of you guys know me but I bought a zx14 to slow down.
My turbocharged, intercooled Honda Blackbird at 255HP and 155 lbs torque was much faster.
The more I rode it, the more I got used to it, and the harder I rode it and...
before I hurt myself, I sold it but I had put 40,000 trouble free miles on it in 4 years.
I bought an 07 ZX 14 and 3 years later, I bought my r model.
It's fast enough for this 68 year old but I do like to tinker... EEK!
Volfy, lemme know if you want to get rid of the Akro...Smile

« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 07:30:44 am by HanksXXX » Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  



ST.N

Copyright © 2001 - 2013 Sport-Touring.Net.
All rights reserved.

 
SimplePortal 2.3.1 © 2008-2009, SimplePortal