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Question: Should all states make helmets mandatory for all riders?
YES! - 131 (42.5%)
No, it should be up to each state to choose - 16 (5.2%)
No, it's an idividuals right to choose to wear a helmet - 161 (52.3%)
Total Voters: 300

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Topic: Helmet Laws - What's your take?  (Read 29438 times)

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DredheadV2.0
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« Reply #180 on: September 26, 2008, 05:32:26 pm »


I think that there are much larger issues here in the states other than a few individuals not wearing helmets.  


I agree, which is why I am suspending my participation in this thread until the economy is resolved.  Now if you'll pardon me, I have Katie Couric on the line...
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02Tac
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« Reply #181 on: September 27, 2008, 10:44:14 am »

Do I want the government to mandate every safety equipment for everything? NO!  However, all other issues aside, I have yet to hear anything other than emotional BS (whine-My choice, whine-Personnel freedom from no helmet crowd.  Take all the medical cost issues, innsurance stuff and laws out of it and you are still left with one very big question.

WHY!!!, if a proven protective measure is available would you not use it.
 Unless you are setting new levels of stupidity you would not;
- Stand next to an operating jet engine with out hearing protection
- Use an arc welder without a eye protection
- Work with cryogenic fluids with out insulated garments/gloves.

So why, again all other issues aside, would you choose to ride down the road at 60mph without a helmet?  In Delaware we get to see the pinnacle of stupidity.  Here, you are not required to wear a helmet, but must have one with you.  So, there goes Joe Squid riding a wheelie down the road in a wife beater shirt, shorts and flip flops with a $500 Arai helmet cargo netted to the pillion seat.

 I am not asking if the government should mandate helmet use, I am asking the non helmet crowd for any sensible reason why you choose not to wear one.  If you can respond without resorting to the normal "my choice" thought process; please do.
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« Reply #182 on: September 27, 2008, 12:26:34 pm »


Do I want the government to mandate every safety equipment for everything? NO!  However, all other issues aside, I have yet to hear anything other than emotional BS (whine-My choice, whine-Personnel freedom from no helmet crowd.  Take all the medical cost issues, innsurance stuff and laws out of it and you are still left with one very big question.

WHY!!!, if a proven protective measure is available would you not use it.
 Unless you are setting new levels of stupidity you would not;
- Stand next to an operating jet engine with out hearing protection
- Use an arc welder without a eye protection
- Work with cryogenic fluids with out insulated garments/gloves.

So why, again all other issues aside, would you choose to ride down the road at 60mph without a helmet?  In Delaware we get to see the pinnacle of stupidity.  Here, you are not required to wear a helmet, but must have one with you.  So, there goes Joe Squid riding a wheelie down the road in a wife beater shirt, shorts and flip flops with a $500 Arai helmet cargo netted to the pillion seat.

 I am not asking if the government should mandate helmet use, I am asking the non helmet crowd for any sensible reason why you choose not to wear one.  If you can respond without resorting to the normal "my choice" thought process; please do.


Checking for consistancy in your argument....

Do you wear cut resistant gloves when eating a steak?  Yeah, yeah, it's an extreme example but you're the one questioning the logic of not taking every possible safety precaution availible. So I figure you do, right?  
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« Reply #183 on: September 27, 2008, 01:30:10 pm »


WHY!!!, if a proven protective measure is available would you not use it.
 Unless you are setting new levels of stupidity you would not;
- Stand next to an operating jet engine with out hearing protection
- Use an arc welder without a eye protection
- Work with cryogenic fluids with out insulated garments/gloves.


These items do not match with the act of not wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle.

Your items WILL produce a degraded human condition. Riding a motorcycle without a helmet only MIGHT produce a degraded human condition. One could go years / miles without any accident (let alone one where a helmet would have been wanted).
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« Reply #184 on: September 27, 2008, 01:33:28 pm »

If we should only partake in a hazardous activity with full safety gear then perhaps we should only ride motorcycles with the "Michelin Man" rubber bubble around our bodies. Keep the logic moving and soon it'll be too "dangerous" to get out of bed. A step further then it will be too dangerous to be born / living.

I'll reinforce the "Education" position.
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« Reply #185 on: September 27, 2008, 01:35:40 pm »




Checking for consistancy in your argument....

Do you wear cut resistant gloves when eating a steak?  Yeah, yeah, it's an extreme example but you're the one questioning the logic of not taking every possible safety precaution availible. So I figure you do, right?  

Please note I stated "a protective measure", not "every conceivable measure".

  If you like we can take this to the Nth degree, but in the end the base question is still why (regardless of state laws) would someone choose to ride without a helmet?  The reasons commonly touted are noting more than emotional nonsense used because they have no rational explanation. They frequently sound like a teenager whining about not getting their way.

  I gave the examples I did because they are valid comparisons, cutting a piece of steak is not.  Any task you do carries with it some level of risk.  Cutting a steak on your plate does not carry a risk even remotely similar (unless you are a hemophiliac) to the sited tasks or riding down the road with out a helmet.
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« Reply #186 on: September 27, 2008, 01:41:43 pm »


If we should only partake in a hazardous activity with full safety gear then perhaps we should only ride motorcycles with the "Michelin Man" rubber bubble around our bodies. Keep the logic moving and soon it'll be too "dangerous" to get out of bed. A step further then it will be too dangerous to be born / living.

I'll reinforce the "Education" position.


 I firmly agree with the "education position" and to properly do so we need to understand what drives a person to see riding without a helmet as a smart move.  While the examples I gave earlier are a bit extreme I still see them as valid because the end result is serious injury due to lack of taking a simple precaution.  Are the odds higher in the examples I sited, yes they are, but I view the odds that you will, at some point, need your helmet to be pretty damn good.
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« Reply #187 on: September 27, 2008, 04:30:53 pm »

So what do you do in the case of the parent who takes his/her kid for a ride and dismisses the notion that Helmets are needed?

That, and the part that I more than likely would have to pay for his treatment costs of a brain injury which are very expensive.

Now are workplace regulations requiring you to wear things like hard hats, resperators hearing protection, are these what you would call excessive government intervention?

I think they are one in the same.
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« Reply #188 on: September 28, 2008, 04:09:22 am »




 Sorry, the Conservatives are the ones who believe in self sufficiency and personal responsibility and I have to agree with them.
 People should work for what you want/get.  They only ones that should get a free ride are those that cannot do for themselves.  Those that won't should get nothing.  Case in point; Welfare, you want it you need to perform X amount of community service a week and be subject to random drug tests. You have additional kids; SORRY, no additional money, if you are on welfare you should not be having any more kids.  
 People should take responsibility for their actions.  For a general example, look at all the frivolous law suits in this country. If you are a fat ass because you eat 2 Woppers, a supersize fry and soda every day; DO NOT SUE BURGER KING!! They did not hold a gun to your head and make you eat it.  You walked you lard butt in an placed the order every day.


I almost agree with this, except I'm for abolishing welfare altogether.

For people, and for corporations, and for D.C.   Bigsmile
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« Reply #189 on: September 28, 2008, 04:24:09 am »



Please note I stated "a protective measure", not "every conceivable measure".

  If you like we can take this to the Nth degree, but in the end the base question is still why (regardless of state laws) would someone choose to ride without a helmet?  The reasons commonly touted are noting more than emotional nonsense used because they have no rational explanation. They frequently sound like a teenager whining about not getting their way.

  I gave the examples I did because they are valid comparisons, cutting a piece of steak is not.  Any task you do carries with it some level of risk.  Cutting a steak on your plate does not carry a risk even remotely similar (unless you are a hemophiliac) to the sited tasks or riding down the road with out a helmet.


Tac, when you come down to it...there's no 'rational' reason to ride a motorcycle at all.

If you want economy, get a Smart Car.  If you want to avoid congestion, use mass transit.  Seriously...why the hell would anyone ride one of these deathtraps in the first place, helmet or not?   Headscratch

We all assume the level of risk that we're comfortable with.  Skydivers think base jumpers are nuts.  Scuba divers think folks who cave dive have a screw loose.  Truckers who pull box freight can't ever see themselves pulling shotgun tanks or doubles.  Some folks--like me, for a lot of years--choose to ride without a helmet for various reasons.  

Some say that they'd rather just die outright than be crippled or vegetative, and riding bareheaded increases the odds of a quick death.  Some feel that their hearing and vision are constricted by a helmet(and if that isn't true, why don't we mandate 'em for cage drivers?), and that they're better off having all their senses at full capacity to avoid the accident in the first place.  And some just don't want to mash their mousse job.

There's almost as many reasons to ride bareheaded as there are people who do it.  Some reasons are born of ignorance, some have a certain logic to them.  As for me, I'm now going to take a shower without any sort of protection at all.   EEK!  Light a candle for me--I live on the edge.   Bigsmile
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« Reply #190 on: September 28, 2008, 08:29:53 am »

Yes if we are mandated to wear seat belts then we should wearing helmets.  As should kids who ride bicycles.  

In Florida the fatality rate increased by 71% in the first two years since the helmet law was repealed.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/FlaMCReport/pages/Index.htm
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« Reply #191 on: September 28, 2008, 09:44:33 am »




Tac, when you come down to it...there's no 'rational' reason to ride a motorcycle at all.

If you want economy, get a Smart Car.  If you want to avoid congestion, use mass transit.  Seriously...why the hell would anyone ride one of these deathtraps in the first place, helmet or not?   Headscratch

We all assume the level of risk that we're comfortable with.  Skydivers think base jumpers are nuts.  Scuba divers think folks who cave dive have a screw loose.  Truckers who pull box freight can't ever see themselves pulling shotgun tanks or doubles.  Some folks--like me, for a lot of years--choose to ride without a helmet for various reasons.  

Some say that they'd rather just die outright than be crippled or vegetative, and riding bareheaded increases the odds of a quick death.  Some feel that their hearing and vision are constricted by a helmet(and if that isn't true, why don't we mandate 'em for cage drivers?), and that they're better off having all their senses at full capacity to avoid the accident in the first place.  And some just don't want to mash their mousse job.

There's almost as many reasons to ride bareheaded as there are people who do it.  Some reasons are born of ignorance, some have a certain logic to them.  As for me, I'm now going to take a shower without any sort of protection at all.   EEK!  Light a candle for me--I live on the edge.   Bigsmile



 Using the no rational reason logic puts us at the point that none of us should use a conveyance that moves faster than we can run.  

 You say there are almost as many reasons to ride without one as with one.  I have yet to hear one single reason to ride without a helmet that even makes sense let alone can be justified.  I think when you get right down to it is just a case of the I don't have to's.  tied to a warped sense of thinking it makes them look tough, cool or something when all it really does in make them look like idiots.  

 As far as the vision hearing thing; total bunk.  Once, long ago, I did a little experiment along those lines.  At any speed above residential speed limits I could hear better with my helmet on (even with ear plugs) that I could with the wind rushing past my uncovered ears.  Sight, I have found that ever helmet I have had basically has a field of vision equal or very close to my peripheral vision limits so with or with out a helmet I will need to turn my head a bit now and then to see things.
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« Reply #192 on: September 28, 2008, 10:07:51 am »


As far as the vision hearing thing; total bunk.  Once, long ago, I did a little experiment along those lines.  At any speed above residential speed limits I could hear better with my helmet on (even with ear plugs) that I could with the wind rushing past my uncovered ears.  Sight, I have found that ever helmet I have had basically has a field of vision equal or very close to my peripheral vision limits so with or with out a helmet I will need to turn my head a bit now and then to see things.


You should rerun your test in the modern age. This past summer my helmet was stolen off my bike and I had to ride home about 75 miles unhelmeted. I was near the state line, so I dropped down into PA from NY. (NY requires helmets, PA does not.) What surprised me about the ride was that I could put the FJR's shield up and found total silence. I could even hear the tread on the tire's sidewalls hitting the pavement when going through turns. Amazing. Complete quiet that I've never experienced riding.

Your assertion, 02Tac, is completely groundless.
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« Reply #193 on: September 28, 2008, 01:58:05 pm »


Your assertion, 02Tac, is completely groundless.


OK, on your specific bike you experienced a different result.  That in and of it self does not make my result groundless.  Quite possibly, on a large fairing bike, you may not have issue hearing as the wind is not blasting past your ears. Point taken.  Now, how many bike actually fit you category? My Bandit does not, no sport bike does, any small faired bike does not, no standard or cruiser or dual sport does unless it is retro fitted with a sufficiently large wind screen.
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« Reply #194 on: September 29, 2008, 08:41:21 am »




OK, on your specific bike you experienced a different result.  That in and of it self does not make my result groundless.  Quite possibly, on a large fairing bike, you may not have issue hearing as the wind is not blasting past your ears. Point taken.  Now, how many bike actually fit you category? My Bandit does not, no sport bike does, any small faired bike does not, no standard or cruiser or dual sport does unless it is retro fitted with a sufficiently large wind screen.


Sure it does make your result groundless.

Quote
As far as the vision hearing thing; total bunk.


You made the claim.

Why fret over what someone else wants to do / how they choose to live their life? After all, it is their life.... not yours.
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« Reply #195 on: September 29, 2008, 11:16:38 am »


Sure it does make your result groundless.
You made the claim.
Why fret over what someone else wants to do / how they choose to live their life? After all, it is their life.... not yours.


So the fact that my result varied from yours makes my whole argument groundless. Sorry, no.

Not fretting.  You will notice I stated I do not believe that the government should mandate helmet use.  What I am trying to figure out is why someone would willingly choose to ride without one.  Sadly, when you take out their emotional responses (you know, the little kid yelling "because I can") they run out of reasons.  You can argue, emotionally, all day long about not using a helmet, but in the end is there even one good reason not to use a helmet?
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« Reply #196 on: September 29, 2008, 12:05:55 pm »


You will notice I stated I do not believe that the government should mandate helmet use.  What I am trying to figure out is why someone would willingly choose to ride without one.


Here is but one, of many possible, answers: Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

A second answer is that many don't feel an accident would happen to them, so protective gear is not needed.

As for this thread...
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« Reply #197 on: September 29, 2008, 02:28:47 pm »




So the fact that my result varied from yours makes my whole argument groundless. Sorry, no.

Not fretting.  You will notice I stated I do not believe that the government should mandate helmet use.  What I am trying to figure out is why someone would willingly choose to ride without one.  Sadly, when you take out their emotional responses (you know, the little kid yelling "because I can") they run out of reasons.  You can argue, emotionally, all day long about not using a helmet, but in the end is there even one good reason not to use a helmet?


Sorry, but your posts always are in support of greater government control over individual choice. You've posted it, don't try pretending you haven't.   Rolleyes
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« Reply #198 on: September 29, 2008, 02:56:04 pm »


Sorry, but your posts always are in support of greater government control over individual choice. You've posted it, don't try pretending you haven't.   Rolleyes


  What part of "I do not believe that the government should mandate helmet use" do you not understand? Headscratch

  I am asking (as explained before) what drives someone to believe something as stupid as riding without a helmet is a good idea?  I am trying to understand the thought process that justifies blatantly stupid decisions. Nothing more.
  Do you have anything of actual value to add that actually pertains to the question or are you just going to keep yapping?
  I will even repeat the question so you can try to get it this time.

Why, when the benefits far outweigh any supposed down side, would someone willingly choose to ride a motorcycle without a helmet?

 Just to make sure you are with me on this, if you have some of value to add to the discussion; PLEASE DO.  If you don't please put me on ignore so that my questions do not bother your sensibilities.
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« Reply #199 on: September 30, 2008, 02:16:48 am »


When the benefits far outweigh any supposed down side, would someone willingly choose to ride a motorcycle without a helmet?


I think you need to start a new thread. This thread is titled "Helmet laws" and takes a different angle from the question you wish answered. Post your question as a thread title and see what happens - you'll likely get a wider / different audience and, perhaps, answers to your question.

Though even if everyone answered with an insightful answer I'm thinking none will satisfy the question.
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