head to head lightweights: GSX650F vs. 650R vs FZ6R

[Hickey]

Great topic for someone getting back into the sport!  Hey, it's my impression that the 650F is new in '09.'  Were they made in previous years with the up bars?   :headscratch:My impression after reading all of the posts is that the real question would more apporpriately be the way you're going to use the bike most of the time.  Don't know about the FZ6R, but it would seem to me that for touring, the 650F would be the choice, maybe the 650R for more local commuting type of riding.  I'm amazed you didn't include the SV650's in your condsiderations......

The Suzuki 650F is essentially a water-cooled Bandit 650 with a fairing.  Those were sold in Europe from 2006 or 2007.  They were never available here in the States.  The first version from that family we saw was the 650F in 2008.

On a related note, the water-cooled Bandit 1250 and the 650F share the same frame.  I'm fairly certain that many of the engine castings are the same as well.  This is part of why the 650F is heavy for its class.  But is is also over built.  It ought to be a tough little tank.  Another effect is that many of the Bandit 1250 accessories also fit the 650F, like luggage.

[Sport-Touring]

[Doug Just Doug]

The Suzuki 650F is essentially a water-cooled Bandit 650 with a fairing.  Those were sold in Europe from 2006 or 2007.  They were never available here in the States.  The first version from that family we saw was the 650F in 2008.

On a related note, the water-cooled Bandit 1250 and the 650F share the same frame.  I'm fairly certain that many of the engine castings are the same as well.  This is part of why the 650F is heavy for its class.  But is is also over built.  It ought to be a tough little tank.  Another effect is that many of the Bandit 1250 accessories also fit the 650F, like luggage.

I subscribe to UK's Bike and Ride, and they rave about the 650F for commuting/ST'ing.  They particularly love the smooth-running engine.  I don't know if the US version would be tuned different due to EPA or Cali. regs, tho.  One of the mags also pointed out that the 1250 engine would bolt right in to the 650F.

[ctbandit]

i actually think the yami is ugly. If I had to choose I'd likely take the Suzi, cause it looks like sex with the bags on.

[SVNET]

It is so funny to see people talk about this new generation of bikes...

The SV maniacs  are all disapointed about the new Galdius.  Equally powerfull, but UGLY.

The FZ6 Freaks they all hate the new FZ6R, once again total disapointment. Pretty, but Anemic.

And even thought the 650r continues to be the same anemic bike as it original was,
the green lovers are also disapointed at the new 650r, but this time why ?

In short, the American crowd is just a hard crowd to please, 3 different bikes competing for the same market and yet we manage to dislike all of them.  The wish dream here is that these company will just put out for sale a GSX-r, R6 or ZX 636 with a tag price of $6500.  Keep on Dreaming...

Here is my take at each bike:

1. FZ6r

My first bike was a Yamaha Seca, the original master piece from where the FZ6/FZ6r originated, so I am bias and quite happy to see a new version of the perffect bike I once owned.  I just hope it does not inherit the buzziness from the Seca which the FZ6 inherited 100%.

Personally, I think Yamaha hit the spot right in between the 650r/650F.  Very cute bike, very agressive looking but with good ergos, best combination. And the #1 point that sets it appart, Yamaha always produces very high quality products from the finish to the sound of the engines.

Based only on looks, I would go with the FZ6r, I just can't get enough of its looks.

2. 650F

Based only on features, I would have to go with Suzuki products, always jammed pack with little details that I like.
Based on smooth engine, I would have to go with suzuki, both the FZ6 and 650r are known for buzziness maniacs.

As faithfull as I want to be to Yamaha, my prior two bike and my current bike has been Suzuki, I owned the SV650s and now I own a C50 cruiser.

I like the front looks of the bike, but not a fan of its tail. It is not the most comfortable bike either.  If you don't have long arms, you will be laying your belly all over the tank in order to reach the handle bars.  The bike is top Heavy, but worse, the weight is not well balance.  I own a cruiser that is 530LBs and It doesn't feel as heavy as the 650F.  The 650F has the feel of my friend's VRod, when you lift the bike from its kick stand position, you see the weight of the bike sink the front forks, scary...

But, we must admit that Suzuki meant business when they created the SV650s, and they made a good quality product with a good quality finish and packed with cutting edge technology features.  Remember, the sharp lined SV came out on 2003, it still looks good and it still have more features then the 650r. But it is also the most uncomfortable bike I ever rode, you get all the pain and torture of a super sport bike at a much more reduced price tag.

3. 650R

Based on comfort, affordability, looks and its light weight foot print, I would have to go with the Kawasaki.
I deals for more local commutes in heavy traffic areas so that you can zip the traffic.

You have to give it to Kawasaki, they re-invented themselves and created a spot in this market out of thin air.  But couldn't they have made it more cheapy looking.  The 650r has that look and feel of a plastic toy. It does not feel like a Japan made product, instead it feels like it came straight from Taiwan.
The cheapy radiador, the bad welds on the frame, you name it the bike is cheap.  And the engine sounds and feels more like the Ninja 500r.

But the 650r offers something the others done, a very attactive design combine with a very up right riding position, something that not always come together and on top of that it is very light weight. So you get an easy to handle bike, that is cute and actractive with a very comfy riding position and you got the perffect commuter. Last but not least, cheaper the all the others so you get to save a few bucks.

For me, the perffect bike.  I am poor so saving money is important.  I am not a spring chicken, so having a good riding position is a must.  The bike offers me the pretty sport look that I always wanted...

Final Notes:

I am glad that the factors of this changing world has brought these companies into sense and they are starting to respond to the need of people like me.

1. I can't affort a top dollar high end machine, but I surely do love the LOOKS.
2. I am not a track racer so I don't need all the high tech components, but I love the LOOKS.
3. I am not a spring chicken and would not stand a super sport bike, but I sure love the LOOKS.

So this new 650cc market has brought to people like the all that we ever wanted.

Affordable bikes, that have all the aggressive looks of a super sport but with comfort.  PERFFECT.

I don't need the power of R6 so the anemic twin of the 650r will do just fine.
I don't need the front forks of a GSX-R, so the soft suspension of 650F will do just fine.
I don't need the agressiveness of a CBR so the comfort of the FZ6r will do just fine.

I just can't wait to trade my C50 cruiser for either FZ6r or 650r, Sorry Suzuki...Too heavy and ugly.

[chimera]

^^Good first post SVNET^^ thanks for your thoughts

[bugeyed]

2. 650F

Based only on features, I would have to go with Suzuki products, always jammed pack with little details that I like.
Based on smooth engine, I would have to go with suzuki, both the FZ6 and 650r are known for buzziness maniacs.

As faithfull as I want to be to Yamaha, my prior two bike and my current bike has been Suzuki, I owned the SV650s and now I own a C50 cruiser.

I like the front looks of the bike, but not a fan of its tail. It is not the most comfortable bike either.  If you don't have long arms, you will be laying your belly all over the tank in order to reach the handle bars.  The bike is top Heavy, but worse, the weight is not well balance.  I own a cruiser that is 530LBs and It doesn't feel as heavy as the 650F.  The 650F has the feel of my friend's VRod, when you lift the bike from its kick stand position, you see the weight of the bike sink the front forks, scary...

But, we must admit that Suzuki meant business when they created the SV650s, and they made a good quality product with a good quality finish and packed with cutting edge technology features.  Remember, the sharp lined SV came out on 2003, it still looks good and it still have more features then the 650r. But it is also the most uncomfortable bike I ever rode, you get all the pain and torture of a super sport bike at a much more reduced price tag.

As an owner of a 650F, I feel compelled to respond to a few remarks. Let me start by saying I have zero experience with the other 2 bikes referenced in this very insightful post. Now on to the retort, yep, the 650F is portly, I give you that, it is an I-4 after all. The remark about the forks sinking when lifted up from the side stand has me a little concerned. I just tried this on my bike, the forks sink maybe 1". Don't they all do that? I mean my Beemer sinks like 2-3 inches. Maybe the bike you tried this on was mis-adjusted. I really don't know as I haven't gotten into the whole suspension tuning thing, but I seem to remember every bike I've ever ridden on sinking the forks at least a tad when brought upright. I think the extra weight on this bike makes it a really stable platform for a sport touring bike. It doesn't blow around too bad unless caught is some severe side winds, which I've done. Also, I believe the weight is pretty neutral, it handles quite nimbly. I have yet to detect any desire of the front end to push or get nervous while turning. My Beemer is top heavy, the 650F is not even close to that, but in comparison to the other 2 bikes in this thread perhaps. I have no way to judge that.

For me the ergos are pretty darn good, it fits me quite well, but I am 6'2" so the long arms help with that. The 650F is easier on my back and I can put on more comfortable miles than I can with my R1200CL, which is a cruiser and tips the scales at right about 700 lbs.

All that being said, I'm not looking for a flame war. I am sure the other bikes also have very happy owners and may have issue with some things said about them, no problem. All the information we include in these forums will ultimately help others with decisions on which bike they should look at when the time comes. Oh, one other thing, looks are very subjective. I wouldn't say the Zuke is "ugly" by any stretch, and everybody is certainly entitled to their own opinion. I'm extremely happy with this bike, and I think that it will provide many miles of enjoyment for anybody who decides to own one.

[chimera]

As an owner of a 650F, I feel compelled to respond to a few remarks. Let me start by saying I have zero experience with the other 2 bikes referenced in this very insightful post. Now on to the retort, yep, the 650F is portly, I give you that, it is an I-4 after all. The remark about the forks sinking when lifted up from the side stand has me a little concerned. I just tried this on my bike, the forks sink maybe 1". Don't they all do that? I mean my Beemer sinks like 2-3 inches. Maybe the bike you tried this on was mis-adjusted. I really don't know as I haven't gotten into the whole suspension tuning thing, but I seem to remember every bike I've ever ridden on sinking the forks at least a tad when brought upright. I think the extra weight on this bike makes it a really stable platform for a sport touring bike. It doesn't blow around too bad unless caught is some severe side winds, which I've done. Also, I believe the weight is pretty neutral, it handles quite nimbly. I have yet to detect any desire of the front end to push or get nervous while turning. My Beemer is top heavy, the 650F is not even close to that, but in comparison to the other 2 bikes in this thread perhaps. I have no way to judge that.

For me the ergos are pretty darn good, it fits me quite well, but I am 6'2" so the long arms help with that. The 650F is easier on my back and I can put on more comfortable miles than I can with my R1200CL, which is a cruiser and tips the scales at right about 700 lbs.

All that being said, I'm not looking for a flame war. I am sure the other bikes also have very happy owners and may have issue with some things said about them, no problem. All the information we include in these forums will ultimately help others with decisions on which bike they should look at when the time comes. Oh, one other thing, looks are very subjective. I wouldn't say the Zuke is "ugly" by any stretch, and everybody is certainly entitled to their own opinion. I'm extremely happy with this bike, and I think that it will provide many miles of enjoyment for anybody who decides to own one.

Agreed.  This is why it is so hard to choose........

I really like the looks of the 650r

I really like the touring capabilities of the GSX650F

I really like the hot motor in the FZ6R

One of these three is probably going to be my next bike if I can ever decide which one.

[SVNET]

As an owner of a 650F, I feel compelled to respond to a few remarks. Let me start by saying I have zero experience with the other 2 bikes referenced in this very insightful post. Now on to the retort, yep, the 650F is portly, I give you that, it is an I-4 after all. The remark about the forks sinking when lifted up from the side stand has me a little concerned. I just tried this on my bike, the forks sink maybe 1". Don't they all do that? I mean my Beemer sinks like 2-3 inches. Maybe the bike you tried this on was mis-adjusted. I really don't know as I haven't gotten into the whole suspension tuning thing, but I seem to remember every bike I've ever ridden on sinking the forks at least a tad when brought upright. I think the extra weight on this bike makes it a really stable platform for a sport touring bike. It doesn't blow around too bad unless caught is some severe side winds, which I've done. Also, I believe the weight is pretty neutral, it handles quite nimbly. I have yet to detect any desire of the front end to push or get nervous while turning. My Beemer is top heavy, the 650F is not even close to that, but in comparison to the other 2 bikes in this thread perhaps. I have no way to judge that.

For me the ergos are pretty darn good, it fits me quite well, but I am 6'2" so the long arms help with that. The 650F is easier on my back and I can put on more comfortable miles than I can with my R1200CL, which is a cruiser and tips the scales at right about 700 lbs.

All that being said, I'm not looking for a flame war. I am sure the other bikes also have very happy owners and may have issue with some things said about them, no problem. All the information we include in these forums will ultimately help others with decisions on which bike they should look at when the time comes. Oh, one other thing, looks are very subjective. I wouldn't say the Zuke is "ugly" by any stretch, and everybody is certainly entitled to their own opinion. I'm extremely happy with this bike, and I think that it will provide many miles of enjoyment for anybody who decides to own one.

No offese taken and like you said, this open conversation will only be of benefits for those trying to make up their mind.

With regard the forks thing, it all depents your point of reference, I am a small guy so I have always own smaller and light bikes, so when compared to my experience and memory of the SV650 and my current 530lb C50 cruiser, the 650F does feel TOP heavy and it sinks the forks in a way that the SV650 never did.  But, when compared to the tanks that you have owned in the past, the 650F might be just fine...

With regard the comfort issue, a person with your height and thus length of arms will never have any issues reaching the handle bar on most bikes and will always be able to maintain a good sit up position on most bikes.  Me on the other hand, I am only 5'8' and for my height, I do have pretty long arms, but I still found the 650F a little too forward for my taste, but again it is all about point of reference. Coming off the SV650S the 650F would proabably feel just fine to me, but coming off the C50 cruiser, the 650F just feel to forward and top heavy.

With regard Suzuki in GENERAL, I am a huge fan of them.  Suzuki make their bikes and design their bikes in a way that makes sense.  I used to stare at my SV650s and now at my C50 and I just admire how suzuki laid everything out, it just purely makes sense.  These bikes are like a piece of ART drawing. It is so easy to work on these bikes compared to other brands.  Everything is located just in the right spot and well made.  All the parts just fit together well, like someone actually thought about it.

Now, from the little bit of reading I have done on the 650F around other forums, that is not quite the case with this particular model. the 650F seems to be some what of an adaptation, and effort from suzuki to create a new model by trying to fit some older parts together.  Trying to dress up a bike originally made to be naked, now they have find creative ways to tuck all the guts inside and make it work.  For example, look at the multiple black side panels, it seem like they were just creating little bit of plastic covers here and there to cover up all the little holes that were left behind.  The 650F is nothing more then a dressed Bandit and because of that there are some charasteristic of this bike that one just have to accept and live with it...  It is an old bike brought to live in a new world ahead of its time...

Again, point of reference is an important factor, a bike will feel as perfect to its owner depending on the deal that owner got on the bike.  If you got rip off on the bike and you pay way more then you should had, then every single little thing on the bike will become a big issue.  If on the other hand, you got a steal deal on a 650F, the bike will be the perfect bike to you, an awsome machine at a price that errases all of its flaws...  Just a reference point...

[bugeyed]

You're right about the point of reference

We are really picking nits when comparing bikes anyway. Let's face it, the quality of these bikes is quite high. I am sure that anybody would be happy with any of them. Now there are some significant differences that will sway the decision one way or the other, after all that's what this whole thread is about. My mantra is if it feels good to you, makes you happy and fills a void in your life, then you are obligated to commit without fear of reprisal from your peers (as long as it's legal   )

[yellow500]

I've got a friend with a '06 650R.  He likes the weight of the bike, the peppy twin, the underslung exhaust, and the great gas mileage--50 mpg at sea level, 56 mph in the mountains.  However, he complains that the suspension is cheap, and the bike sailed around during crosswinds at 5000 ft on the Blue Ridge Parkway.  He's bought about 50 feet of cheap Home-Depot weather stripping in attempts to kill buzzes in the fairing.  For the money he thinks the bike is wonderful.  I'm not a true fan of the bike due to lack of a gradrail (big $$ from Kawi), and the rear end doesn't seem to have facilities to strap on saddle bags--and the tank is peaky, and I'm not sure a big tank bag would work well.  At 5'10" with long arms, the bike seems to fit me fine (while sitting on it--I have not ridden it, and I don't have the heart to ask)--while my ex500 seems to have a slightly longer reach than I'd like.  He complained that the grip area of the 650R bars is canted too far in.  I believe the Versys addresses all of these questions, and the Versys is sure as heck lighter than a V-Strom or a 650F.

The 650F is intriguing, except for 43 mpg and 530 lbs.  And that muffler looks like a strap-on trashcan, and the headlight looks like a big silver candy-corn.  But hey, flat torque curve, good riding position, nice (expensive??) farkle from Suzuki--if the 650F hangs around for several years (and being a civilized Bandit, it probably will), I might be tempted to spring for a used one, Suzuki hard bags and all.  I'll try to hit Bike Week in Daytona for a demo ride.

[some_finn]

I rode my GSX650F 24500km (15200 miles) this season.
I get 47 mpg(US) if not thrashing it. I have a Yoshimura exhaust and had the injection remapped (only needed the tiniest bit, a waste of money).
I did a couple of proper tours (Nordkapp, Switzerland/Central Europe (pics here and here) including some 500+ miles days.
I have Kappa 33 liter contoured panniers (SW Motech QD racks) and a 35 liter Kappa top case.
Other mods include a MRA Vario Touring Screen, 15mm handlebar risers, heated grips, Scorpio alarm, Puig cras pads. (pics here note two pages)

I do a lot of riding around the local twisties, 150-250 mile afternoon rides mostly. Without the luggage it performs quite nicely on that duty too. Mind you I'm no Rossi.
A bit heavy when I have to manhandle it for some reason, but I don't really notice the weight while under engine power.
Good mid range makes it pleasant to cruise around on, and if you rev it you'll love it   Especially with the Yoshi screaming  
Ergos are good for me (5'10.5", slim, long back, short legs), I can ride it from dusk till dawn.

Before buying it I did test ride the Kawa ER-6f (Ninja 650R I believe in the US?) and Versys, Suzuki 650 V-Strom, BMW F800ST, Honda CBF600/S.

I'm thinking of upgrading next season. Triumph Sprint ST 1050 maybe... (Too bad Ducati no longer makes the ST3).

[wolf46]

Starting to lean towards fz6r, was looking hard at the fz6. Will have to test ride one, I don't mind the bit of loss of power between the 3 listed. I'm coming from cruisers and think I'll like the low seat hieght and bars that are somewhat up and back. I don't really expect I'll even use all any of these have, will be mostly commuting with weekend country rides and only 1 or 2 8-10+ hour trips per year. No matter what I choose I'll have to get used to the higher rpms of these bikes, only thing I think I'll miss is the sound of a twin cruiser (I had straight cobra's, could set off car alarms LOL).

[mikeyman]

Just took my '06 Ninja 650r for a VERY cold spin around to keep it from feeling neglected. Funny, every time I think of upgrading to another bike, I remember this one is paid for, economical, reliable and as fun as a barrel of monkeys. Lets see if I feel the same after the motorcycle show in two weeks!

[Hunter]

Where is the vote for "none of the above"? ZZR 600 would be my pick.

[SVNET]

Just took my '06 Ninja 650r for a VERY cold spin around to keep it from feeling neglected. Funny, every time I think of upgrading to another bike, I remember this one is paid for, economical, reliable and as fun as a barrel of monkeys. Lets see if I feel the same after the motorcycle show in two weeks!

In my way to church today I saw one in plasma blue at a red light and I just started drawling over it.

The wife said, "do not even think about"...

But, the same as you, now that I don't have $5K debt on my back, I feel so free and light that I don't want to go back to that heavy burden of a pending loan...

Right after I saw a guy on a SV650-S, it looks nice with the new lower faring but I did notice how bended the guys knees were and I just said ouch... Not comfy at all... Comfy is a big plus for the 650R...

[mikeyman]

Where is the vote for "none of the above"? ZZR 600 would be my pick.

ZZR is a fine pick too, but I am not much into carburetors. A real no brainer if they fit it with EFI.

[Phenix_Rider]

ZZR is a fine pick too, but I am not much into carburetors. A real no brainer if they fit it with EFI.

Carbs are easy enough to work on- just don't neglect them.  If you drop stuff like the floats, or leave nasty fuel in for too long, you get to work on them a lot more often.

[falconati]

They're all good picks, and about the same price, but I went with the Yamaha based solely on looks.  This is the new 2009 FZ6R:

[SVNET]

They're all good picks, and about the same price, but I went with the Yamaha based solely on looks.  This is the new 2009 FZ6R:

Here is some background info on the ancient blue prints of the bike you like so much today...

Quote from the internet:

"The Seca II was Yamaha's entry in the 'bargain motorcycles' sector. When it first came out, its competition was the Kawasaki EX500, the Bandit 400, and the GS500E. It had many advantages over all of them. The motor was based on the Diversion 400 motor used elsewhere in the world. It was put in a full size steel tube frame. The Seca was a stylish motorcycle, and performed very well. It was comfortable, simple to work on, and a decent performer. The two valve per cylinder engine was no technological marvel, but it was reliable and easy to live with. The half fairing did a good job of protecting the rider from the elements. The Seca II was a very well rounded package. If a new Seca II's price is a best buy, then buying an old version of the exact same machine for less should earn the buyer a place in the bargain-hunter's hall of fame. Power in 1992 was 49.1bhp, with torque of 35.4ft/lb's. Wet weight was 450lb's."

End Quote...

Note that the Seca was always known to be a weak link, lots of promises but not a lot delivered specially when compared to its direct competitor, the Bandit 600.  Up until today, these two bikes still compete for the same market, but the FZ6 seems to now have the upper hand when it comes to power, it is no longer the weak link the Seca was known for.

I owned a copy of the last year the Seca was made in 1998.  Yamaha went without a replacement for this bike up until 2006, when the FZ6 came out.  But just like Suzuki is doing today with the Bandit 600 and the GSX-650F, Yamaha never wanted for the FZ6 be associated with the old Seca.

Maybe because the Seca was my first bike, but I will always love it and it will always feel as the perfect bike, except for two things.  First, cold blooded bike as no other, it would take 15min riding for this bike to start get a hold of itself in cold weather.
Second, Buzzy as no other will ever be, from 55mph to 65mph, this bike would shake your teeth out, but 70mph and above it will be smooth as silk, it just had that rough spot.  From what I have read online, at least the earlier version of the FZ6 did inherit the buzziness...

Now that you own the latest version, is your bike buzzy at any speed ?




And the Cutest of them all:

1982 Turbo...!

Late 1970s

[chimera]

Yamaha never wanted for the FZ6 be associated with the old Seca.

And I think that is a shame.  ALOT of manufacturer's moved away from giving bikes NAMES instead of alphanumeric nomenclature.

BTW, I've got your old bike.  98 Seca.  Really enjoying it.

When it comes time to pick one of these three, it looks like the 650r has the lowest price.  That is a major deciding factor, for me.