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What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
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Topic: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit? (Read 7479 times)
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atadaskew
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What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
on:
September 29, 2008, 06:46:03 pm »
What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit? Would buying a K&N filter (part # HD9608) result in the same affect i.e. increased breathing?
Of course fueling would have to be addressed etc etc but let's tawk about the filter for now.
Thanks!
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chornbe
Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #1 on:
September 29, 2008, 06:48:35 pm »
Quote from: atadaskew on September 29, 2008, 06:46:03 pm
What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit? Would buying a K&N filter (part # HD9608) result in the same affect i.e. increased breathing?
Of course fueling would have to be addressed etc etc but let's tawk about the filter for now.
Thanks!
Yep. The Stage-1 Screaming Eagle kit I purchased for mine came with a whole new housing plate, too.
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atadaskew
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #2 on:
September 29, 2008, 06:57:44 pm »
So the SE kit breathes more than just replacing the stock filter with a K&N?
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chornbe
Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #3 on:
September 29, 2008, 09:34:12 pm »
Quote from: atadaskew on September 29, 2008, 06:57:44 pm
So the SE kit breathes more than just replacing the stock filter with a K&N?
Yeah. The backing plate is open beyond the outside of the filter and can, presumably, flow a LOT more air.
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Geoff
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #4 on:
September 30, 2008, 09:16:52 am »
Chornbe is correct. The kit has an open backing plate which, along with the K&N filter, increases airflow to the motor. A complete H-D stage 1 upgrade consists of the high flow air intake, ECM download, and either slip-ons or whole pipe change.
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atadaskew
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #5 on:
September 30, 2008, 11:04:50 am »
Is the ECM recalibration just set to work with the Harley slip on mufflers? I ask because I'm more interested in Vance & Hines slip-ons but I think the V&H flow much more than the Harley ones. Which means the recalibration may still be too lean.
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chornbe
Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #6 on:
September 30, 2008, 11:49:29 am »
Quote from: atadaskew on September 30, 2008, 11:04:50 am
Is the ECM recalibration just set to work with the Harley slip on mufflers? I ask because I'm more interested in Vance & Hines slip-ons but I think the V&H flow much more than the Harley ones. Which means the recalibration may still be too lean.
Get the V&H FuelPak while you're looking at exhaust & intake. It's the easiest thing to install and configured, and the list of settings they give you is quite comprehensive and covers all the major options for pipes, mufflers and intakes, as well as any custom engine builds you can think of.
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atadaskew
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #7 on:
September 30, 2008, 12:58:36 pm »
Good idea. I think I'm gonna wait this out a while as the bike runs so nicely. Just seeing what's out there. Of course the best money spent would be on suspension.
This is what happens when I get distracted at work!
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chornbe
Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #8 on:
September 30, 2008, 01:05:05 pm »
Quote from: atadaskew on September 30, 2008, 12:58:36 pm
Good idea. I think I'm gonna wait this out a while as the bike runs so nicely. Just seeing what's out there. Of course the best money spent would be on suspension.
This is what happens when I get distracted at work!
You want either the 13.5" 440-series Progressives, or the Race Tech Caddies.
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atadaskew
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #9 on:
September 30, 2008, 01:29:35 pm »
Quote from: chornbe on September 30, 2008, 01:05:05 pm
You want either the 13.5" 440-series Progressives, or the Race Tech Caddies.
Dumb question, but I think the stock shocks are 12 "? I have noooo problem going with a longer shock. Would there be any clearance issues going with a 13.5?
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chornbe
Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #10 on:
September 30, 2008, 01:36:49 pm »
Quote from: atadaskew on September 30, 2008, 01:29:35 pm
Dumb question, but I think the stock shocks are 12 "? I have noooo problem going with a longer shock. Would there be any clearance issues going with a 13.5?
Nope. The swing arm and frame are the same on the lowered and non-lowered versions. The only difference is the shock length.
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Geoff
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #11 on:
September 30, 2008, 02:20:16 pm »
Quote from: atadaskew on September 30, 2008, 11:04:50 am
Is the ECM recalibration just set to work with the Harley slip on mufflers? I ask because I'm more interested in Vance & Hines slip-ons but I think the V&H flow much more than the Harley ones. Which means the recalibration may still be too lean.
An internal combustion engine is basically an air pump. If you allow more air in via a high flow air cleaner, and let more air out with performance pipes, you'll need to recalibrate the ECM. A stock Harley ignition works with the restrictions set by the government (EPA). Harley and the aftermarket offer EFI controllers that allow you to change the engine's fuel curve. This helps eliminate popping, stumbling, surging, and flat spots you might encounter with EFI engines modified with high flow air cleaners and pipes. This also eliminates overheating you might experience with the (lean running) TC96.
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atadaskew
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #12 on:
September 30, 2008, 02:48:51 pm »
Thanks Geoff I understand that but I wanted to know if Harley's ECM reflash is just optimized for their own pipes, or will work with others. This is relevant as the current SE slip on is far more restrictive than ones from the past, and so will not flow as well as alternatives like V&H. So the ECM reflash may still be too lean for the V&H.
Anyhow, if I ever did this I'd just get the V&H fuelpak and deal with it that way.
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Geoff
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #13 on:
September 30, 2008, 04:27:08 pm »
Quote from: atadaskew on September 30, 2008, 02:48:51 pm
Thanks Geoff I understand that but I wanted to know if Harley's ECM reflash is just optimized for their own pipes, or will work with others. This is relevant as the current SE slip on is far more restrictive than ones from the past, and so will not flow as well as alternatives like V&H. So the ECM reflash may still be too lean for the V&H.
Anyhow, if I ever did this I'd just get the V&H fuelpak and deal with it that way.
The new style SE pipes are designed for noise abatement. I'm not sure if Harley's ECM reflash will support aftermarket pipes. I would talk to a dealer tech. This topic is often discussed on hdforums.com and there are many conflicting opinions.
I was fortunate. I could mount any pipes I want on my 2005 Ultra Classic. I replaced the stock pipes with HD touring pipes. They're slightly louder than stock, which suits me just fine. Loud pipes are cool around town, but not when you're knocking down 600-mile days.
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atadaskew
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #14 on:
September 30, 2008, 06:26:10 pm »
Yeah I don't think the ECM reflash will help freer flowing pipes, only the much more restrictive SEs.
SEs in the past used to be a lot louder/freer flowing but all that fun and games is over thanks to govt/EPA intervention. Which is fair enough.
But this is also why if I do this i will go via V&H fuelpak and not powercommander. Dynojet has recently got slammed by CARB and so the version they now sell in CA is very different from the past ones. They are no longer allowed to sell "off road only" (i.e. the good stuff) versions. V&H still sells their 'off road only' programming in CA, as for some reason CARB has not yet given them the same smack down.
Bottom line, if I want a cooler running, better fueled motor it seems that Fuelpak is the way to go. Hmm, I just talked myself back into it!
Cooler running = less stress = increased longevity. Let's not forget the bonus of more powah.
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stevent
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #15 on:
October 01, 2008, 03:23:39 pm »
I'd leave it stock myself. My '08 runs perfect, no too loud, starts idles and fuels without a hiccup... granted it doesn't get as hot here as in California so I just run full syn Mobil 1 vtwin and call it good. My opinion only but I've modified every Harley I've owned except this one, you can get more power out of them but it's till a Harley, you're better off putting money in suspension and decent tires
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atadaskew
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #16 on:
October 01, 2008, 03:31:25 pm »
it does run great, but it gets hot in traffic...
CA tuning is different from WA tuning. Leaner. And hotter.
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stevent
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #17 on:
October 01, 2008, 03:48:18 pm »
That's true, I wasn't thinking of that. I was wondering what all the fuss was about when I first got this thinking it doesn't run any hotter than anything else, but I guess the Ca. models would be different. It shouldn't be too hard to get the right combination of fueling and pipe set up, there's a Harley performance shop on every corner it seems
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Geoff
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Re: What exactly is a stage 1 air filter kit?
«
Reply #18 on:
October 02, 2008, 09:29:09 am »
Quote from: stevent on October 01, 2008, 03:23:39 pm
...you can get more power out of them but it's still a Harley, you're better off putting money in suspension and decent tires
Well said. Prior to my current Harley, I owned an Electra Glide Standard. I spent money on a big bore kit, cam, pipes, S&S carb and more. My bike was fast among other Harleys, but it was slow compared to some stock metrics. The only mod I've made to my current bike, an Ultra Classic, is a set of touring pipes and a Ram mount with cradles for my GPS and iPod. I also replaced the stock shift linkage with a more durable one that has heim joints. I highly recommend this change.
«
Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 09:30:47 am by Geoff
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