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Topic: Ninja 1000 oil change - Oil light question  (Read 23146 times)

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blkrabit
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« on: June 03, 2011, 11:51:16 pm »

Can I get some feedback from anyone who's changed the oil in their Ninja 1000?

I just changed the oil for the first time. I installed a PL14610 filter and and 4 quarts of Castrol Actevo 20W50. Now, when I start the engine, the oil warning indicator icon is lit, and the red warning light is steady. I've let the motor idle for about a minute, but I stopped it for fear of damaging the motor.

I checked the oil level through the sight glass, and it's right at the upper mark.

According to the owner's manual, 'If the oil has just been changed, start the engine and run it for several minutes at idle speed. This fills the oil filter with oil."

Ok, so how long is 'several minutes'? If someone else has seen it take several minutes for the warning lights to go out, I'd love to know about it.

Also, the owner's manual states the warning light and symbol will "blink". Both are lit on my dash, but not blinking. I hate playing guessing games.

-edit: I should have posted this in the maintenance forum; sorry, still learning the STN ropes.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 12:22:51 am by blkrabit » Logged
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JSharp
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2011, 02:12:14 am »

Don't run the thing for more than a few seconds with the oil light on! The oil pump is air locked.  

Start the engine and quickly loosen the filter slightly until you see oil start to leak. Tighten the filter. That should get rid of the air lock and the oil light should go out in a few seconds.

Next time you change the oil don't remove the filter while the oil is drained. Do this with the bike on a stand -

Drain the oil then re-install the drain plug.
Add 3 - 3 1/2 qts of oil to the engine.
Remove the filter.
Fill the new filter at least 1/2 way with fresh oil then install it. It will take a few fills to saturate the media and fill the filter. Be patient.
Start the engine and let it idle for a couple of minutes. The oil light should have gone out in a few seconds.
Stop the engine and let it sit for a few minutes, then top off the level to the top line in the window.

Mine takes exactly 4 qts using a Wix filter. With a different brand of filter it might be a little more or a little less.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 02:18:00 am by JSharp » Logged
blkrabit
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2011, 02:40:00 am »

That was it. WTF!? I've never had that happen on any bike before. Is that due to the horizontal orientation of the filter? The VFR filter is vertical, and the last I4 I owned was ages ago (FJ1100).

Thanks VERY much, JSharp. Now I can sleep.  Sleepy
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2011, 02:45:47 am »

Scary, huh?  I saw this mentioned on another forum a couple of years ago and didn't believe it.  The oil pump losing its prime is apparently most common on Kawasakis - you'll see isolated cases going back for decades - but there are reports of other brands, too.  You'd think it would have been resolved years ago.

KeS
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blkrabit
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 02:48:13 am »

NOT the kind of experience I want to have with a brand-frikkin'-new bike.  Crazy
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JSharp
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 09:40:34 am »


Scary, huh?  I saw this mentioned on another forum a couple of years ago and didn't believe it.  The oil pump losing its prime is apparently most common on Kawasakis - you'll see isolated cases going back for decades - but there are reports of other brands, too.  You'd think it would have been resolved years ago.

KeS


I thought it was BS too after owning a number of older Kawasaki's with canister filters. No issues with those or any other brand for that matter. Before I bought my Ninja I read a lot about current Kawasaki's and saw the problem mentioned enough times on the net that I figured it was probably real.  I haven't studied the oiling system enough to understand why these engines are so susceptible to this. It may have to do with the level of the filter vs. the oil pump, the geometry of the oil passages, who knows. But it's easy to avoid as long as you follow the rule - never let the pump get air on both sides.
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JSharp
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 09:47:38 am »


That was it. WTF!? I've never had that happen on any bike before. Is that due to the horizontal orientation of the filter? The VFR filter is vertical, and the last I4 I owned was ages ago (FJ1100).

Thanks VERY much, JSharp. Now I can sleep.  Sleepy



Glad that fixed it. And welcome if no one has done that already.  Bigok

I'm not clear as to why these things do this so I just consider it one of the quirks of ownership.

The Ninja is a great bike isn't it? The more I ride mine the more I like it.

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Fourstring
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 10:38:42 am »

Wow.  Is the oil filter high enough in the case that you can have it full of oil but not leaking out the fitment?  On my ZX9, if I tried that, the oil would come straight out the filter hole.

I've never heard of this before.  Headscratch
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 11:58:36 am »


Wow.  Is the oil filter high enough in the case that you can have it full of oil but not leaking out the fitment?  On my ZX9, if I tried that, the oil would come straight out the filter hole.

I've never heard of this before.  Headscratch


Same on the ZX-14.  
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JSharp
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« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 01:32:26 pm »


Wow.  Is the oil filter high enough in the case that you can have it full of oil but not leaking out the fitment?  On my ZX9, if I tried that, the oil would come straight out the filter hole.

I've never heard of this before.  Headscratch


You can fill the filter over 1/2 way and quickly tip it on it's side to install it without losing much. When you pull it you lose what's in the filter plus a small amount from the oil passages. The the oil sump is on the other side of the pump so it can't leak out...



« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 01:35:41 pm by JSharp » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 12:09:21 pm »




You can fill the filter over 1/2 way and quickly tip it on it's side to install it without losing much. When you pull it you lose what's in the filter plus a small amount from the oil passages. The the oil sump is on the other side of the pump so it can't leak out...



Yep, that's the way to do it.
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 12:26:32 pm »




Yep, that's the way to do it.


Umm, this doesnt look good for long term reliability!  Rolleyes  I bet in a few years when lots of STN'ers are shopping for lightly used NINJA 1000's, more than a few will have engine trouble because of owners who didnt know about this "issue". 
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 12:55:24 pm »

Supposedly my 2005 ZX6r (636) could do the same thing, requiring a brief loosening of the oil filter to sort things out. I always pre-filled my filter and never had an issue.
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 01:45:16 pm »

Pretty neat, I had not heard of this before.
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 01:01:33 am »




Umm, this doesnt look good for long term reliability!  Rolleyes  I bet in a few years when lots of STN'ers are shopping for lightly used NINJA 1000's, more than a few will have engine trouble because of owners who didnt know about this "issue". 


Bike with canister filters have the housings completely empty after every oil change. It has to fill before the engine has oil pressure. As long as a person doesn't run their Ninja for a while without pressure it's not really any different than other bikes.
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Cricket1
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 12:22:18 pm »

Yes, but most with canister style filters fill up within maybe 5-10 seconds of starting, if they were not pre filled. It sounds as if the N1K might have an "air lock" issue that prevents it from self filling?  Thats what I'd be worried about, someone riding around for awhile without much oil flow.  EEK!
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 09:37:32 pm »

It's true. If you buy a bike from someone who rode it around with the oil pressure light on it might have a problem in the future.   Lol
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blkrabit
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2011, 09:51:13 pm »

In case anyone's wondering, the bike is running fine. No issues or unusual sounds at 170-ish miles. I'll change the oil again at 600.
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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2011, 09:01:05 am »

Same thing happened to me when I did my first oil/filter change on my '08 ZX-10R. Shut it down, backed off the filter, restarted, light off. Now I follow the procedure outlined earlier in the thread. Never had this happen in 45 years of oil changes on other bikes or cars.
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« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2011, 06:00:44 pm »


Same thing happened to me when I did my first oil/filter change on my '08 ZX-10R. Shut it down, backed off the filter, restarted, light off. Now I follow the procedure outlined earlier in the thread. Never had this happen in 45 years of oil changes on other bikes or cars.


So since this is obviously a very rare condition normally with motorcycles, what are the chances that someone who changes their own oil on the N1K, and DOESNT know about the issue, and rides it for "awhile" without noticing the oil light is on?

Jsharp- of course riding around with the oil light could cause possible engine trouble.  Twofinger But since it seems this oiling system is nearly guaranteed to cause a problem, I'd bet in a few years there will be plenty of used N1K's that have been slightly "oil starved" at some point or more, in their past.
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