Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
Print

Topic: Ninja 1000 oil change - Oil light question  (Read 22898 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
blkrabit
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000
Miles Typed: 30

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« on: June 03, 2011, 11:51:16 pm »

Can I get some feedback from anyone who's changed the oil in their Ninja 1000?

I just changed the oil for the first time. I installed a PL14610 filter and and 4 quarts of Castrol Actevo 20W50. Now, when I start the engine, the oil warning indicator icon is lit, and the red warning light is steady. I've let the motor idle for about a minute, but I stopped it for fear of damaging the motor.

I checked the oil level through the sight glass, and it's right at the upper mark.

According to the owner's manual, 'If the oil has just been changed, start the engine and run it for several minutes at idle speed. This fills the oil filter with oil."

Ok, so how long is 'several minutes'? If someone else has seen it take several minutes for the warning lights to go out, I'd love to know about it.

Also, the owner's manual states the warning light and symbol will "blink". Both are lit on my dash, but not blinking. I hate playing guessing games.

-edit: I should have posted this in the maintenance forum; sorry, still learning the STN ropes.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 12:22:51 am by blkrabit » Logged
Sport-Touring
Advertisement
*


Remove Advertisements

JSharp
*

Reputation -62
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000, ancient KDX 250
GPS: East Central IL
Miles Typed: 760

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2011, 02:12:14 am »

Don't run the thing for more than a few seconds with the oil light on! The oil pump is air locked.  

Start the engine and quickly loosen the filter slightly until you see oil start to leak. Tighten the filter. That should get rid of the air lock and the oil light should go out in a few seconds.

Next time you change the oil don't remove the filter while the oil is drained. Do this with the bike on a stand -

Drain the oil then re-install the drain plug.
Add 3 - 3 1/2 qts of oil to the engine.
Remove the filter.
Fill the new filter at least 1/2 way with fresh oil then install it. It will take a few fills to saturate the media and fill the filter. Be patient.
Start the engine and let it idle for a couple of minutes. The oil light should have gone out in a few seconds.
Stop the engine and let it sit for a few minutes, then top off the level to the top line in the window.

Mine takes exactly 4 qts using a Wix filter. With a different brand of filter it might be a little more or a little less.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 02:18:00 am by JSharp » Logged
blkrabit
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000
Miles Typed: 30

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2011, 02:40:00 am »

That was it. WTF!? I've never had that happen on any bike before. Is that due to the horizontal orientation of the filter? The VFR filter is vertical, and the last I4 I owned was ages ago (FJ1100).

Thanks VERY much, JSharp. Now I can sleep.  Sleepy
Logged
Advertisement



kevin_stevens
*

Reputation -9
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '09
Years Supported: '11
Motorcycles: BMW S1000RR, Buell 1125CR
GPS: I'm right here!
Miles Typed: 5936

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2011, 02:45:47 am »

Scary, huh?  I saw this mentioned on another forum a couple of years ago and didn't believe it.  The oil pump losing its prime is apparently most common on Kawasakis - you'll see isolated cases going back for decades - but there are reports of other brands, too.  You'd think it would have been resolved years ago.

KeS
Logged
blkrabit
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000
Miles Typed: 30

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2011, 02:48:13 am »

NOT the kind of experience I want to have with a brand-frikkin'-new bike.  Crazy
Logged
JSharp
*

Reputation -62
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000, ancient KDX 250
GPS: East Central IL
Miles Typed: 760

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2011, 09:40:34 am »


Scary, huh?  I saw this mentioned on another forum a couple of years ago and didn't believe it.  The oil pump losing its prime is apparently most common on Kawasakis - you'll see isolated cases going back for decades - but there are reports of other brands, too.  You'd think it would have been resolved years ago.

KeS


I thought it was BS too after owning a number of older Kawasaki's with canister filters. No issues with those or any other brand for that matter. Before I bought my Ninja I read a lot about current Kawasaki's and saw the problem mentioned enough times on the net that I figured it was probably real.  I haven't studied the oiling system enough to understand why these engines are so susceptible to this. It may have to do with the level of the filter vs. the oil pump, the geometry of the oil passages, who knows. But it's easy to avoid as long as you follow the rule - never let the pump get air on both sides.
Logged
JSharp
*

Reputation -62
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000, ancient KDX 250
GPS: East Central IL
Miles Typed: 760

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2011, 09:47:38 am »


That was it. WTF!? I've never had that happen on any bike before. Is that due to the horizontal orientation of the filter? The VFR filter is vertical, and the last I4 I owned was ages ago (FJ1100).

Thanks VERY much, JSharp. Now I can sleep.  Sleepy



Glad that fixed it. And welcome if no one has done that already.  Bigok

I'm not clear as to why these things do this so I just consider it one of the quirks of ownership.

The Ninja is a great bike isn't it? The more I ride mine the more I like it.

Logged
Fourstring
Careful, that's a load-bearing ziptie...
*

Reputation 47
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: Kawi ZX9, Honda Uglystick
GPS: Norman Rockwell's Distopia
Miles Typed: 6073

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2011, 10:38:42 am »

Wow.  Is the oil filter high enough in the case that you can have it full of oil but not leaking out the fitment?  On my ZX9, if I tried that, the oil would come straight out the filter hole.

I've never heard of this before.  Headscratch
Logged

Let's all panic.  That should fix it.
Squareman357
ZX-14 Warg Rider
*

Reputation 10
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '10
Years Supported: '11
Motorcycles: '06 ZX-14, '03 GS500F, '02 CBR1100XX (sold), '03 Suzuki Katana (sold), '08 ZX-14
GPS: Chicago, IL
Miles Typed: 2051

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2011, 11:58:36 am »


Wow.  Is the oil filter high enough in the case that you can have it full of oil but not leaking out the fitment?  On my ZX9, if I tried that, the oil would come straight out the filter hole.

I've never heard of this before.  Headscratch


Same on the ZX-14.  
Logged
JSharp
*

Reputation -62
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000, ancient KDX 250
GPS: East Central IL
Miles Typed: 760

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2011, 01:32:26 pm »


Wow.  Is the oil filter high enough in the case that you can have it full of oil but not leaking out the fitment?  On my ZX9, if I tried that, the oil would come straight out the filter hole.

I've never heard of this before.  Headscratch


You can fill the filter over 1/2 way and quickly tip it on it's side to install it without losing much. When you pull it you lose what's in the filter plus a small amount from the oil passages. The the oil sump is on the other side of the pump so it can't leak out...



« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 01:35:41 pm by JSharp » Logged
OKC-N1K
*

Reputation 0
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2005 Triumph Thuxton w/904cc kit, 2009 Kawi ZX-6R (track bike), 2010 Triumph Thunderbird 1700 and a 2011 N1K
Miles Typed: 28

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 12:09:21 pm »




You can fill the filter over 1/2 way and quickly tip it on it's side to install it without losing much. When you pull it you lose what's in the filter plus a small amount from the oil passages. The the oil sump is on the other side of the pump so it can't leak out...



Yep, that's the way to do it.
Logged
Cricket1
*

Reputation 35
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '08, '10
Years Supported: '11
Motorcycles: '15 Yamaha FJ09
GPS: Ohio
Miles Typed: 798

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 12:26:32 pm »




Yep, that's the way to do it.


Umm, this doesnt look good for long term reliability!  Rolleyes  I bet in a few years when lots of STN'ers are shopping for lightly used NINJA 1000's, more than a few will have engine trouble because of owners who didnt know about this "issue". 
Logged

We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.
Winston Churchill
garry
Bleeds Orange...
*

Reputation 95
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '08, '09
Motorcycles: KTM 1190 Adventure / KTM 530 EXC
GPS: Southwestern PA
Miles Typed: 6036

My Photo Gallery



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 12:55:24 pm »

Supposedly my 2005 ZX6r (636) could do the same thing, requiring a brief loosening of the oil filter to sort things out. I always pre-filled my filter and never had an issue.
Logged

2015 KTM 1190 Adventure
2009 KTM 530 EXC
scottzilla
*

Reputation -56
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '10
Years Supported: '11
Motorcycles: CBR1100XX, 33hp oversized dirt bike, 08 Tuono
GPS: NY
Miles Typed: 8809

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 01:45:16 pm »

Pretty neat, I had not heard of this before.
Logged

They're finding dead bodies where I ride.

The Wrath of Con Pt. 4 "One thing is for sure however, I will never publicly promote or let it be known that I am a member of STN again".
JSharp
*

Reputation -62
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000, ancient KDX 250
GPS: East Central IL
Miles Typed: 760

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 01:01:33 am »




Umm, this doesnt look good for long term reliability!  Rolleyes  I bet in a few years when lots of STN'ers are shopping for lightly used NINJA 1000's, more than a few will have engine trouble because of owners who didnt know about this "issue". 


Bike with canister filters have the housings completely empty after every oil change. It has to fill before the engine has oil pressure. As long as a person doesn't run their Ninja for a while without pressure it's not really any different than other bikes.
Logged
Cricket1
*

Reputation 35
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '08, '10
Years Supported: '11
Motorcycles: '15 Yamaha FJ09
GPS: Ohio
Miles Typed: 798

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 12:22:18 pm »

Yes, but most with canister style filters fill up within maybe 5-10 seconds of starting, if they were not pre filled. It sounds as if the N1K might have an "air lock" issue that prevents it from self filling?  Thats what I'd be worried about, someone riding around for awhile without much oil flow.  EEK!
Logged

We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.
Winston Churchill
JSharp
*

Reputation -62
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000, ancient KDX 250
GPS: East Central IL
Miles Typed: 760

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 09:37:32 pm »

It's true. If you buy a bike from someone who rode it around with the oil pressure light on it might have a problem in the future.   Lol
Logged
blkrabit
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000
Miles Typed: 30

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2011, 09:51:13 pm »

In case anyone's wondering, the bike is running fine. No issues or unusual sounds at 170-ish miles. I'll change the oil again at 600.
Logged
bikefreak47
*

Reputation 4
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '94 CB1000,'97 Bandit 1200,'98 Superhawk,'99ZRX1100,'02 FZ-1,'02 Ducati Foggy Monster 916, '02 Ducati 998 Monoposto,'06 Speed Triple,,'06 MV Agusta Brutale 910R Gladio,'07 Tuono,'07 Bimota DB6 Delirio,'08 ZX-10R, '08 SuperDuke
Miles Typed: 145

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2011, 09:01:05 am »

Same thing happened to me when I did my first oil/filter change on my '08 ZX-10R. Shut it down, backed off the filter, restarted, light off. Now I follow the procedure outlined earlier in the thread. Never had this happen in 45 years of oil changes on other bikes or cars.
Logged
Cricket1
*

Reputation 35
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '08, '10
Years Supported: '11
Motorcycles: '15 Yamaha FJ09
GPS: Ohio
Miles Typed: 798

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2011, 06:00:44 pm »


Same thing happened to me when I did my first oil/filter change on my '08 ZX-10R. Shut it down, backed off the filter, restarted, light off. Now I follow the procedure outlined earlier in the thread. Never had this happen in 45 years of oil changes on other bikes or cars.


So since this is obviously a very rare condition normally with motorcycles, what are the chances that someone who changes their own oil on the N1K, and DOESNT know about the issue, and rides it for "awhile" without noticing the oil light is on?

Jsharp- of course riding around with the oil light could cause possible engine trouble.  Twofinger But since it seems this oiling system is nearly guaranteed to cause a problem, I'd bet in a few years there will be plenty of used N1K's that have been slightly "oil starved" at some point or more, in their past.
Logged

We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.
Winston Churchill
JSharp
*

Reputation -62
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000, ancient KDX 250
GPS: East Central IL
Miles Typed: 760

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2011, 10:16:44 am »




So since this is obviously a very rare condition normally with motorcycles, what are the chances that someone who changes their own oil on the N1K, and DOESNT know about the issue, and rides it for "awhile" without noticing the oil light is on?

Jsharp- of course riding around with the oil light could cause possible engine trouble.  Twofinger But since it seems this oiling system is nearly guaranteed to cause a problem, I'd bet in a few years there will be plenty of used N1K's that have been slightly "oil starved" at some point or more, in their past.


I've seen a lot of posts on different boards asking about this problem. No surprise, most people know if the oil pressure light doesn't go out that there's an issue and they don't continue to run the engine.

Maybe the people you know are different...  Twofinger



Logged
RideDualSport.com
EathyRider
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Miles Typed: 40

My Photo Gallery


RideDualSport.com/forum


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2011, 11:22:43 pm »

I did the first oil change on the Ninja 1000 today.
At 246 miles I put Motul 10-40 non-synthetic with a K&N oil filter.
The original oil filter was a bear to remove, due to not having a small enough oil filter wrench. The K&N filter has a handy hex-head on it and I torqued it to 15 ft lbs and the oil drain plug to 25 ft lbs.

Also, even though I filled the oil filter with some oil before installing it, my oil warning light would not go off. So, I loosened the oil filter till a little oil dribbled out, and tightened it. The oil warning light turned off. Good thing I read about the air lock at the oil filter on the web, or I would have been very perplexed about the oil light staying on!
But, just because the light went on does it mean there was no oil pressure? Where exactly is the sensor located, and what conditions trigger the light to go on?
Cheers!
Logged



JSharp
*

Reputation -62
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000, ancient KDX 250
GPS: East Central IL
Miles Typed: 760

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2011, 02:14:35 pm »

The oil pressure sending unit sits in one of the main oil galleys. It's a normal idiot light type pressure sender. If the light is on you have no oil pressure.

Next time try refilling the engine with oil before you pull the filter. I've been using that method plus filling the new filter about 1/2 way before installing it and I've never had pressure problems after a change.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 02:16:57 pm by JSharp » Logged
blkrabit
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000
Miles Typed: 30

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2011, 12:54:56 am »

My most recent oil change was uneventful. Drained, pulled filter, installed new filter, filled w/oil, started, oil light went out almost immediately. I won't provoke things again by trying to drain every last drop of old oil from the sump. Lesson learned.

BTW, I saw 136 mph indicated in eastern Oregon a few weeks ago. I love this bike!  Inlove
Logged
RideDualSport.com
EathyRider
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Miles Typed: 40

My Photo Gallery


RideDualSport.com/forum


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2011, 11:18:16 pm »

Thank you JSharp for the explanation of the oil pressure, I'll be sure to fill the motor with oil before changing the oil filter.
The bike shifted nicer and the motor a little more quiet after the oil change.
The first 450 miles have been spent around 4,000 to 4,500 rpms. After 450 miles, I am spending more time in the 5,000 to 6,000 rpm range and occasionally hitting 8,000 rpm. As I approach 1000 miles I will go higher in the revs.

Refurbishing my brother's 1980's 900 Ninja really got me excited about looking at the new 1000 Ninja.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm178/ninaudp/900_Ninja_Project/900_Ninja_029.jpg

I rarely buy new motorcycles, and am a big Buell fan, so I was concerned that the 1000 Ninja would not have enough personality to keep me interested in it. A bike has to excite me when I am riding it, or while I am sipping a beer and just looking at it when its parked. The Ninja does both! The motor feels a lot like the Buell 1125 CR, tons of torque from idle to the sky! My Buell TT is super exciting to ride and a very visceral experience, if not a bit quirky. The Ninja is super capable (like the TT) on rough narrow county roads. It was not phased one bit by cattle guards, pot holes and rough roads, and it flicked through the turns super easy.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm178/ninaudp/2011_05_to_12/07/2011_ninja_1000_new_04.jpg

The riding position, fairing, motor and handling really sold me on this bike. I wanted a bike that would gobble the miles with utter reliability, no stress, and comfortably. My Buell S3 has a similar riding position and wind protection, but I am tired of wondering if an engine temp sensor is going to fail, muffler bracket breaking, or a belt going south. Don't get me wrong, I still love my Buells, but my 08 KLR 650 sold me on Kawasaki's reliability.
I would have liked better passenger accommodations and a better seat on the Ninja, but then it might not have been quite as sporting a bike. I also like the one piece cast frame with no welds at key points like the swing arm mount. Combined with the body work that attaches without visible fasteners, give the bike a super clean look, very sculpted and seductive! I don't mind the Ninja sticker either as it is a nod to is roots.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm178/ninaudp/2011_05_to_12/07/2011_ninja_1000_new_01.jpg
Logged



howardrichman
*

Reputation 2
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 07 Kawasaki Ninja 650R
Miles Typed: 268

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2015, 08:46:45 am »

 07 ninja 650R
Yep; My wife just bought the new Vulcan S ABS, loves the bike. For a cruiser, light weight and handles well. I had same problem w/ 1st oil change. Bled pump thru filter, light went out after frustration. I cannot believe not in owners manual. Never had this problem w/ my Ninja 650, or any vehicle I've ever owned! I'd be weary of buying used!

                                                                                   HR...
Logged
blkrabit
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: 2011 Ninja 1000
Miles Typed: 30

My Photo Gallery





Ignore
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2015, 02:27:06 am »

Checking in at 7600 miles (yes yes yes, I need to ride more, I KNOW): all good, no engine issues. Still love the heck out of my Ninja!
Logged
pb
*

Reputation 0
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: n1k
Miles Typed: 1

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2017, 12:26:57 am »

yes, an old thread! for those with more oil changes under the belts, what do you feel is the contributing factor as to why this happens?
from my reading it appears that if the oil drain process is longer than a jiffy-lube job, the oil pump won't prime.
either that or positioning of the bike during refilling. in my case the bike was on a rear stand the whole time. so for my next oil change, besides being a bit quicker, i'll have the bike on it's side stand before refilling.
Logged
Phenix_Rider
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '07 Ninja 650R
Miles Typed: 440

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2017, 06:38:46 pm »


yes, an old thread! for those with more oil changes under the belts, what do you feel is the contributing factor as to why this happens?
from my reading it appears that if the oil drain process is longer than a jiffy-lube job, the oil pump won't prime.
either that or positioning of the bike during refilling. in my case the bike was on a rear stand the whole time. so for my next oil change, besides being a bit quicker, i'll have the bike on it's side stand before refilling.


Main culprit seems to be not filling the filter before installing it.  Many bikes / filters have an anti-drain back valve that may exacerbate the issue.

I've never had the issue on my Ninja 650R, but some folks have.  I fill the new filter before installing it.  Never tried replacing the filter after refilling the oil.  Slightly more oil comes out when it's up on the rear stand, though it's not enough to make any difference.  Can't tell you how many oil changes I've done in the last ten years and 58,000 miles.  Doing yet another tonight.  
Logged
HipGnosis
It's Hip to Gno
*

Reputation 23
Offline Offline

Years Contributed: '10
Motorcycles: BMW F800ST(low), VStar 950, Ninja 650
GPS: Not sure where I am, but I'm going back to villainy
Miles Typed: 5108

My Photo Gallery


Mercenary doppleganger scout




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2017, 04:44:21 pm »


I've never had the issue on my Ninja 650R, but some folks have.  I fill the new filter before installing it.  Never tried replacing the filter after refilling the oil.  Slightly more oil comes out when it's up on the rear stand, though it's not enough to make any difference.  Can't tell you how many oil changes I've done in the last ten years and 58,000 miles.  Doing yet another tonight.  

You don't keep track of when you do oil changes?  How do you know when to do it again?!?
Logged

“There's a time for daring and there's a time for caution, and a wise man understands which is called for.” - Robin Williams as John Keating in 'Dead Poets Society'
kver
*

Reputation 57
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: sv650s, Sprint ST, zx10r - got a twin, a triple and I4 - I need a thumper
Miles Typed: 186

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2017, 06:17:00 pm »



You don't keep track of when you do oil changes?  How do you know when to do it again?!?


I don't keep track either...  the bikes tell me when the need a change -- shifting gets less smooth..
Logged
Phenix_Rider
*

Reputation 1
Offline Offline

Motorcycles: '07 Ninja 650R
Miles Typed: 440

My Photo Gallery




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2017, 06:27:26 pm »



You don't keep track of when you do oil changes?  How do you know when to do it again?!?


I just use the "B" tripmeter, which gets reset with the oil.  "A" tripmeter is for the fuel tank and gets reset at fill-up.  Depending on my season and my plans, oil changes get done between 3,000 and 5,000 miles.  
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
Print
Jump to:  



ST.N

Copyright © 2001 - 2013 Sport-Touring.Net.
All rights reserved.

 
SimplePortal 2.3.1 © 2008-2009, SimplePortal