Cat removal: freeing up the FJR

[Andrew]

Well the thought of freeing up the exhaust and maybe even lowering the exhaust temp has me wondering. Anyone done it? Got pics.

Last week I saw some pics (not sure where) on what part of the exhaust to open up. YA I know not rocket science. After all I know where the cats are. I have access to a real good TIG welder as well as a MIG set up for s/s, that and a Plasma machine for making a clean cut. I could do it in less than a few hours. But just wondering does it give any benefits, cooler exhaust, more power make the FJR sound less like a "Jetson's" car? Or am I going to cause more problems, surging, uneven exhaust flow or a possible future SMOG TESTING failure?

 
 

[Sport-Touring]

[Mike]

It'll definitely make you fail a smog test. If mapped properly (read: PCIII and a dyno tune), it should improve your top end, although I doubt it would help the mid range much.

[sprint_st]

Dale Walker makes some headers that replace the cats and they have the added benefit of being ceramic coated both inside and out.  Claims of 6-8HP gains come with it IF you get his slip ons and you use a PCIII.  Several guys have done it and their tails are on the FJR Forum.  Quite frankly, I don't see a "need" for them, but I totally understand itches than need to be scratched.

[Baz]

You do relize that the pipes & the PC III are going to run you around 1100.00 bucks don't you. For 5 hp, and neighbors that will hate you? I will agree with Sprint ST on this one. And it is probably the PC III that is giving you the 5 hp.

I live in kind of a redneck place where some people think it's very cool to put straight pipes on their brand new chevy pick-ups. The only ones that think they sound nice is them. I am betting that law enforcement is going to really start cracking down on aftermarket noise very shortly.

You may also want to check around the FJR forums about the people complaining about reduced cornering abilities with some of the aftermarket pipes.

[Andrew]

Sprint_st Yep hit that nail on the head, I had an itch.
The cost of Dale Walker or any other pipes are far from the budget, hence the thought of taking the cats out myself (free)
Not sure how much noisier the bike will be? Some of the people at work joke that the FJR is so quiet that it is hard to tell it is running (What the heck do they know they have air cooled V twains)
I know the bike will most likely not pass a tailpipe test with the cats out, On the flip side could put them back in when needed  .

[FJRmgm]

some have tried it over on the FJR forum and consensus is: Not Worth It.

No HP gains, no lower temp, not much sound difference.

[Geezer]

You can get a full 4-2-1 system from Muzzy for around $500 if you shop carefully. No need for a PCIII and you will get a few hp gain and less heat when in traffic. Muzzy also sells an optional 'quiet core' that keeps the noise down for abou $50 more, thought I don't have the quiet core so I can't say how well it works. Without it, the system is louder than I'd like. You also save about 15 or 20 pounds. You also give up a little bit of ground clearance on the right side, so if you are a peg scraper you probably don't want to swap out the stock exhaust. And, since there is only one muffler, access to the suspension and other rear components for maintenance is much easier. Overall, the advantages over stock are slight but I think I like it.

[sprint_st]

You can get a full 4-2-1 system from Muzzy for around $500 if you shop carefully. No need for a PCIII and you will get a few hp gain and less heat when in traffic. Muzzy also sells an optional 'quiet core' that keeps the noise down for abou $50 more, thought I don't have the quiet core so I can't say how well it works. Without it, the system is louder than I'd like. You also save about 15 or 20 pounds. You also give up a little bit of ground clearance on the right side, so if you are a peg scraper you probably don't want to swap out the stock exhaust. And, since there is only one muffler, access to the suspension and other rear components for maintenance is much easier. Overall, the advantages over stock are slight but I think I like it.

This may sound flip, but if you don't have to tune for it, it probably isn't doing anything.  IMO, the PCIII is worth the money to give better throttle response, the gain for any of the pipes is more for just individualism than anything practical although individualism is a big part of why many of us ride.

[Geezer]

My understanding is that you will get more power if you run the PCIII and the appropriate map, but, the existing ECU alone can compensate somewhat and you will get some additional power with the new pipes and no other changes. The Muzzy system allows you to keep the the O2 sensor. My primary goal in installing the Muzzy was to reduce the heat when in traffic and getting rid of the cat helps with that.

[sprint_st]

My understanding is that you will get more power if you run the PCIII and the appropriate map, but, the existing ECU alone can compensate somewhat and you will get some additional power with the new pipes and no other changes. The Muzzy system allows you to keep the the O2 sensor. My primary goal in installing the Muzzy was to reduce the heat when in traffic and getting rid of the cat helps with that.

If you could truly reprogram the ECU, I could see it compensate, but the fundamental map is fixed in the ECU so it would only react to sensors.  Since the map is really set for a lean state to comply with emission standards, it's hands are really tied.  A free flowing exhaust system "should" make an already lean system even leaner.  IMO, and I was fully ready to purchase, the Dale Walker headers should be a real good method to accomplish what you were after.  Not only are the cats gone but a ceramic coating makes for heat induced scavenging.  I do believe that, if designed correctly a properly designed system on a transverse 4 should scavenge gases out the exhausts in the manner of the Kerker and Yoshimura headers of the old days, but the fact that there is no change to the map required makes me think they are purely cosmetic.  

[FJRmgm]

the guys on the FJR forum who have put on either the Dale Walker or Muzzy setup with a tuned PCIII are getting around 7-9 hp and a couple lb-ft torque increase.  

You are going to spend around $1200 for this.

[Mike-H]

There is a noticable difference running the Muzzy 4-2-1 exhaust with & without running a PC III (if you thought it ran lean before)....& for clearance as I have said on another forum...a changing of the mid pipe (rebending for clearance) seems to end any dragging problems....those with revamped suspensions don't seem to have this problem though....go figure .....

[Dichotomous]

if it has an O2 sensor then you have a certain leway in increasing airflow before you need to remap.  But, it will still run better with a remap.  case in point, my civic Si, has a full exhaust including headers and it has a high flow intake (no jokes, its no speed demon but its fun to drive and I dont pretend its a fast race car) and I dont think it has any ECU altering or remapping at all.  from the forums, people with my setup who have their ECU reworked or use a full customizable ECU addition see 10-20more hp over the guys who leave the ECU alone.  I dont thtink I have any ECU work done, but it pulls nicely all the way through the RPMs and has quite a bit more power than a stock Si (I have driven both).  I think this might be like that with a very advanced bike, three options, good (new bolt on I/E alterations), better(bolt on I/E alterations with ECU alterations), and then best would obviously be full internal reworking and tunings and polishing and maybe some forced induction....

[Andrew]

AS to the CO, with the barbarian wire jumper mod, the CO can be adjusted on a cylinder by cylinder basis. Sure made my FJR run better and smother

[Al]

I have the Holeshot (Dale Walker) pipes on my '05 FJR.  One thing that is different about my set-up is that I'm running Two-Brothers carbon fiber cans, with their "Power-tip" (which is a slight outlet reducer that drops the sound about 2dB).  I'm also running a PC III USB.

I did this in two stages.  First, I just put on the Two Brothers carbon cans.  A few nice benefits here.  My top-end felt much stronger.  With the bike totally stock, it pulled like a freight train up until around 7500-8000, and then there was a noticeable tapering off of power.  With the new cans (without the PC III), the bike pulled about the same in the lower and mid ranges, but felt much better in the upper RPMs all the way to the redline.  Much sportier.  Also, I shed several pounds off the back end of the bike, where it's a good place to take off any weight.  The pipes looked great, and the sound was just a tad louder, but much more mellow.  No, I never was attracted to an ST1300.  One last thing about these cans: they let me keep the Meisner passanger peg extenders I had installed for my very long legged wife; many cans wont work with these.

Then I put on the Holeshot headers with the PC III--Dale Walker will give you his map (developed with his own cans installed on the pipes).  Very different.  First, it's a 4 into 2 straight header, not a 4 into 2 with balance pipes which make it act like a 4 into 2 into 1 into 2 set-up, as are the original pipes.  They are also a bit larger diameter in the primary headpipes, which are a tad shorter before going into the collectors.  If you've studied engine design, they act just the way you'd expect: slightly softer on the bottom end, but catching up in the mid-range, and really coming on strong on the top-end.  And boy do they.  Since putting them on I've been popping a lot of accidental wheelies around 5K when accelerating--that's about when the real serious power kicks in.  It can be a bit disconcerting when accelerating out of corners.  That's something that I only used to experience with my GSXR engined Bandit that I also have.  But the real fun happens after 7500.  The bike now absolutely tears up to (and past) the redline.  I haven't dyno'd it yet, but my SOP meter is telling me that the torque might not have any significant fall off until the redline.  

The sound is changed as well--something that I like, but you might find problematic.  It goes back into that 4 into 2 design.  Since there are no balance pipes linking the two pairs of pipes, it now sounds more like a 2 cylinder Ducatti than your average 4 banger, at least until around 4-5 K.  After that, the sound pulses all come together in one big symphony.  Then there is the sound level.  The note is now very deep, almost the frequency of a Harley with open pipes.  Fortunately, it's not quite that loud.  But it is louder than the bike with just the carbon cans.  I'd guess that it's 2-3 dB louder.  On the highway, I don't notice much difference at all, unless I twist open the throttle.  It's also not unctuous at all when idling after warm-up, and conservative around-the town riding--I've polled my neighbors on this.  However, at fast idle, when warming up, it is almost Harley loud--I can feel the exhaust pulses coming out of the cans standing about 8 feet away.  At first, I wasn't sure if I liked this new tone coming out of my bike, but now I think I've become addicted to it.

The last benefit I've found from these pipes is that there seems to be less heat coming up to my feet.  If you've looked, the catalytic converters are placed right below the engine, just in front of where your feet rest.  Some of the heat from them gets pulled up and out from there in the open area behind the fairing by your ankles.  Less heat is good.

Is all of this worth the hefty dollars?  That's a question that I can't answer for you.  I'm at a stage in my life where I can drop a grand or so on farkles, and in this case, I'm super glad I did.  My FJR is still very practical but is now even more fun.  Fun is why I ride in the first place.

I hope that helps.

[FJRmgm]

nice report on the exhaust system Al..

[Andrew]

Well I picked up a stock header to day on E-bay. So in a week or so I will be able to scratch that itch  

[Mike-H]

What type of header did you end up purchasing?

[Andrew]

THe stock setup, at $50+shipping. Heck for that price I can gut the cats weld it up try it out. If I don't like it I am not out a lot of $$$ And if I do like it and some day have to do a smog/state test I still have the original setup
I figure I can open up the E-Bay/used stock header pipe, remove the cats, weld it back together and have it on the bike in less than 4 hours (probably less but better to estimate high)
The project starts Sunday when I get home from work

[Mike-H]

Andrew....good luck with that.....if we were closer (geographically)....& I was home this weekend I'd offer to help....got a new hobart tig welder in the garage (CWB, TSSA certified)....don't forget to post up so we know how it went....have fun.... ....