Re: Replace my crashed GSXR with Griso - 3yr, 8 months 100,000 miles later.

[Pete Roper]

Have you balanced the throttle bodies? If so you need to re- set the TPS.

As for the Technoresearch kit? Yup, it will perform the basic tasks but Reader and Writer open up a whole new world of possibilities.

Pete

[Sport-Touring]

[Virginian]

 

Great update ET! Thank you for taking the time to share with us your long term experience with the G8.

Eric

[et]

 

Great update ET! Thank you for taking the time to share with us your long term experience with the G8.

Eric

Thanks. But things just started going South shortly after my previous update.

Currently at work and logging in remotely to my computer. So typing is very slow.
So instead of retyping. Here's a link to another thread with some info:
http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/error-ecu00-caused-by-new-oil-washing-bike.13716/

--ET

[Pete Roper]

Its nothing to do with the oil. Check when it illuminates if there is a crossed out gone symbol with an arrow at the bottom of the dash. If one of the indicators drops out, (Usually because the connectors to the loom are crappy.) it will throw up the warning triangle and show the globe symbol on the dash. The arrow points to the side with the problem. It may well be that the washing promoted corrosion in assorted connectors. Time to clear them out.

Pete

[et]

Its nothing to do with the oil. Check when it illuminates if there is a crossed out gone symbol with an arrow at the bottom of the dash. If one of the indicators drops out, (Usually because the connectors to the loom are crappy.) it will throw up the warning triangle and show the globe symbol on the dash. The arrow points to the side with the problem. It may well be that the washing promoted corrosion in assorted connectors. Time to clear them out.

Pete

The error being displayed is the red triangle around the exclamation point and SERVICE on the dash.
It usually only displays for a couple seconds at a time.
Only once did it last long enough for me to log into the Diagnostics menu on the dash and catch the code of ECU00.

All this may very well be caused by the broken mid-exhaust bracket as noted in that thread.
Yes I know blaming the oil sounds very ignorant.
But it seemed very coincidental that these random ECU #00 errors started EXACTLY when I filled with the Redline 10w60.
And then the RPM sensor died with an ECU error #54 the morning following a day on which I got a lot of those (presumably) ECU #00 errors.

I hope to have time to check all electrical connectors this or next weekend.
And also order the mid-exhaust.


Thanks;
--ET

[et]

OP here,

The Griso has gotten worse since my last post in Sept.
It has 90,000 miles and my opinion of it has turned 180 degrees.

Itemized list of issues:

• ECU error #00. Which Guzzi defines as "Unrecognized Error". Neither dealer or Guzzi/Piaggio can diagnose. Piaggio says to ignore it.
• Phase sensor failed. Replacement part was $200.
• Alternator is going bad. Replacement is $850. Hoping I can either rebuild myself or find matching car alternator for much lower in price.
• Central exhaust bracket broke. Replacement part does not exist. And exhaust will not pass inspection. Meaning I can not legally use the Griso.
• Lambda sensor has died. Replacement part is $200.
• Oil pressure sensor failed and caused an oil leak. Replacement part is $200.
• Nearly every part order I've placed with dealer has resulted in incorrect parts being ordered by dealer.

Couple of stories to help shed some light on issues.

Last Fall I started receiving intermittent warning lights on the dash.
It took several attempts to catch the error code. The code turned out to be ECU Error #00. Which Guzzi defines as "Unrecognized Error".
The error appeared to have coincided with switching from Motul 7100 10w60 motor oil to Redline 10w60 motor oil.
But it also appeared to coincide with the bracket for the central exhaust breaking.
And around that same time; the phase sensor failed. A $200 part.

The ECU error #00 appeared to be temperature related. It was more common at colder ambient temperatures.
And did not stop when I switched back to Motul 7100 10w60 motor oil. Although it did appear to be less common than with the Redline.

Thinking it might be a possibility that the central exhaust; in addition to broken bracket; might have a crack that I can't find.
I ordered a new central exhaust, it's mounting bolts, and it's gaskets.
And at the same time ordered fork parts for doing a fork oil change over the Winter.

Well after nearly 2 months. SOME parts arrived.
I got the mounting bolts, incorrect gaskets (dealer's parts girl ordered wrong gaskets), and SOME fork parts.
The central exhaust is on backorder with no ETA (even 7 months later).
Some of the fork parts were on back order with no ETA. And some of the fork parts were incorrect (again wrong parts ordered by dealer's parts girl).

The independent shop that did the fork oil change for me. Was able to use Suzuki crush washers and Kawasaki bushings.
Fortunately the fork seals; dust and oil; ordered by the dealer were correct.





On April 23, 2015 while riding to work. In addition to the random red triangle along with SERVICE in bold letters on dash display for ECU error #00.
The oil pressure light randomly came on and an oil leak developed.
I had the bike towed home and trouble shot the leak the following day, could not find the source of the leak, so scheduled an appointment with local dealer; earliest time was May 7th.
I also trouble shot the leak last weekend.
I was unable to replicate the leak. But it appeared to be the oil pressure sensor.

In addition to the oil leak and oil pressure. I also received an error about the lambda sensor not working.
And after trouble shooting the oil leak. I was unable to get the gas tank back on. It appeared to have grown in length.

On May 7 the dealer confirmed the leak was the oil pressure sensor, that the lambda sensor had gone bad, and that the gas tank had stretched slightly, however they claim to have gotten the tank back on.

BUT they were unable to determine the cause of the ECU error #00.
So they called Guzzi/Piaggio.

Piaggio's response. "We don't know what could be causing that. So just ignore it."

WHAT ?!!!

How are you suppose to ignore big, flashing warnings lights on your dash ?
And if you do ignore them; how are you going to realize other warnings ??

Griso is currently at dealer waiting for oil pressure sensor and lambda sensor to arrive.

I think this is my first and last Guzzi.

--ET

[motrhead]

 Hmmm....electrical issues and a shitty dealer. Neither really surprise me, but that could be a BMW, Triumph or Ducati issue (or Honda for that matter...lol) just as easily. Too bad so many problems are hitting you. Must have been a Monday bike. Can't you get a buddy to weld that exhaust?

[mugwump58]

Ouch

[Volfy]

As much as I like to sympathize  with you, it is a 90k bike. You can drop 2 grand into it and it's still a 90k bike.  I realize a lot of riders expect that and much more from their bikes, but for many of us, 90k of service is an admirable one.  I myself would be more than glad to thank it and go look for a another one.

[et]

As much as I like to sympathize  with you, it is a 90k bike. You can drop 2 grand into it and it's still a 90k bike.  I realize a lot of riders expect that and much more from their bikes, but for many of us, 90k of service is an admirable one.  I myself would be more than glad to thank it and go look for a another one.

Amount of miles is no excuse for:

• dealer consistently ordering incorrect parts
• major parts; or any parts; not being available for a bike that is only 4 years old
• and most importantly; a manufacture saying they don't know their own ECU error codes and telling customer tough luck.

[GerryPetrecca]

Amount of miles is no excuse for:

• dealer consistently ordering incorrect parts
• major parts; or any parts; not being available for a bike that is only 4 years old
• and most importantly; a manufacture saying they don't know their own ECU error codes and telling customer tough luck.

Sorry to hear about you issues.

If you don't mind my asking where are you located?

Regards,

Gerry

[et]

Sorry to hear about you issues.

If you don't mind my asking where are you located?

Regards,

Gerry

Allentown, PA

[GerryPetrecca]

Allentown, PA

Just sent you a PM.  Hopefully it may help.

Gerry

[Pete Roper]

What, if any, modifications have you made to the machine? 'Service' error is almost certainly due to cracked centrepipe. Air being drawn in at certain times will be screwing with the O2 sensor input, the narrow band sensors are very dumb. Chances are the sensor is OK but a fault was triggered when it's signal went beyond acceptable parameters. Alternatively it failed through overfuelling caused by air intrusion fooling the ECU to overfuel grossly. How has your fuel economy been?

My advice for what it's worth is find the crack in the pipe midsection and have it welded. The oil pressure sender has been updated with a new part but for reasons of economy rather than anything else. It needs a mounting piece as well and a swap to the connector. Has the bike ever had the throttle bodies removed for cleaning? If not it's well overdue. While this is being done do NOT move or interfere with the throttle stop screw or linkage rod adjustment.

Spend a handful of dollars on the cables and download and become familiar with Guzzidiag and the Reader and Writer programmes, learn to do your own servicing if your dealer is unreliable or you feel they are, there are few bikes easier to service and tune than a Guzzi. Once familiar with the Guzzidiag suite of tools I can send you a map that will transform your bike as long as it is stock or close to giving you not only smoother running but better fuel economy but ONLY if your machine is serviced and tuned correctly.

Pete

[birdrunner]

 Hmmm....electrical issues and a shitty dealer. Neither really surprise me, but that could be a BMW, Triumph or Ducati issue (or Honda for that matter...lol) just as easily. Too bad so many problems are hitting you. Must have been a Monday bike. Can't you get a buddy to weld that exhaust?

yeah, right  ..... dream on  

[et]

 Hmmm....electrical issues and a shitty dealer. Neither really surprise me, but that could be a BMW, Triumph or Ducati issue (or Honda for that matter...lol) just as easily. Too bad so many problems are hitting you. Must have been a Monday bike. Can't you get a buddy to weld that exhaust?

That was my original thought.
But there are some issues with performing this seemly simple task of getting the central exhaust welded.

First; that it's almost a guarantee that the clamps and gaskets will need to be replaced due to age and rust.
Second; the gaskets for the central exhaust are not available; ie they are back ordered with no ETA.
Third; friend of friend who may be able to weld it. Wants to see the exhaust OFF the bike to determine material and thickness.
Which is currently problematic as per first and second issues.

[et]

What, if any, modifications have you made to the machine? 'Service' error is almost certainly due to cracked centrepipe. Air being drawn in at certain times will be screwing with the O2 sensor input, the narrow band sensors are very dumb. Chances are the sensor is OK but a fault was triggered when it's signal went beyond acceptable parameters. Alternatively it failed through overfuelling caused by air intrusion fooling the ECU to overfuel grossly. How has your fuel economy been?

My advice for what it's worth is find the crack in the pipe midsection and have it welded. The oil pressure sender has been updated with a new part but for reasons of economy rather than anything else. It needs a mounting piece as well and a swap to the connector. Has the bike ever had the throttle bodies removed for cleaning? If not it's well overdue. While this is being done do NOT move or interfere with the throttle stop screw or linkage rod adjustment.

Spend a handful of dollars on the cables and download and become familiar with Guzzidiag and the Reader and Writer programmes, learn to do your own servicing if your dealer is unreliable or you feel they are, there are few bikes easier to service and tune than a Guzzi. Once familiar with the Guzzidiag suite of tools I can send you a map that will transform your bike as long as it is stock or close to giving you not only smoother running but better fuel economy but ONLY if your machine is serviced and tuned correctly.

Pete

Only modifications are Stucchi crash bars and the mid sized Griso specific windscreen.

As for fuel economy it's hard to say. Because we are just now getting to warm weather.
And fuel mileage with this bike as varied greatly with changes to ambient temp, speed, and what type of roadway I'm on.

For instance.
In warm Summer months riding along back roads; I get mid to upper 40's mpg. On interstate keeping speeds under 70mph; low 40's.
On interstate keeping under 70mph and drafting a truck; I get as much as 60mpg.

During cold Winter months I generally stick to the interstate. And depending upon speeds, whether or not I'm drafting a truck, and whether or not the bike as warmed up.
My mpg can vary from below 30mpg to just slightly over 40mpg.

I did not ride much this Winter due to many snow falls and roads being treated.
It's the road treatment that stops me from riding; not the cold.
When I began riding in late March when the roads became clean and temps were still low.
I felt as though the average mpg had dropped. But my records of comparing March of last year to March of this year; indicate no change.
But records only track costs and average mpg; not ambient temps.

I normally do nearly all of my own servicing on all my vehicles and have the Centurion diag tool.
I only (reluctantly) took it to the dealer because of three reasons.

• I was having trouble replicating the oil leak. Damn thing would not leak while running/reving motor in my drivway.
• I could not get the gas tank back into place after removing it.
• I expected both dealer and Guzzi themselves to be better at diagnosing ECU error #00 than myself.
  But as this incident shows; that is not the case.

[Pete Roper]

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26&products_id=2635

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=26&products_id=3116

MG Cycle have both gaskets in stock. You can have them midweek I'd guess. I haven't found a mid pipe but it might be worth calling both MG and Harpers if you want a new one.

The Centurion is I believe a descendent of the VDSTS product so it is probably expensive, complicated to use, needs constant expensive updates and will sometimes, frustratingly, not perform the tasks asked of it. It also has no provision for reading or writing maps which adds to its paperweight like qualities. I've never bothered with it as I have PADS the factory tool but in all honesty I never use that on machines that use the W5AM as Guzzidiag is so much more intuitive and works every time!

The oil pressure sender parts you require are. #641541 for the sender and #887123 for the adaptor. These too will almost certainly be on the shelf at MG or Harpers if Piaggio USA don't have them. (Edit. MG have the switch but not the adaptor. If you can't find one I have one in stock I can put in an air Mail bag if you can't find one easily. I recently sent one of each to some poor bloke in Canada who was getting the run-around from his dealer.)

FWIW if stuff isn't in stock here in Oz or the price is usurious I often order bits through AF1 in Texas and sometimes Piaggio USA stock ordering is perverse. I currently have a Griso that has run its big ends in pieces and needed big end shells. Piaggio USA had three in stock?!?   I mean what sort of cretin orders an odd number of bearing shells for stock? The mind boggles!

As for your tank issue it *may* be related to ethanol in the fuel but also make sure the breather system is venting properly. If the tank is pressurising it will swell.

Pete

[motrhead]

That was my original thought.
But there are some issues with performing this seemly simple task of getting the central exhaust welded.

First; that it's almost a guarantee that the clamps and gaskets will need to be replaced due to age and rust.
Second; the gaskets for the central exhaust are not available; ie they are back ordered with no ETA.
Third; friend of friend who may be able to weld it. Wants to see the exhaust OFF the bike to determine material and thickness.
Which is currently problematic as per first and second issues.

As a welder approaching a similar job, I would just assume it is thin, and MIG it in place. This is not rocket science?!

[Volfy]

Amount of miles is no excuse for:

• dealer consistently ordering incorrect parts
• major parts; or any parts; not being available for a bike that is only 4 years old
• and most importantly; a manufacture saying they don't know their own ECU error codes and telling customer tough luck.

Not at all trying to excuse MG of their inability to help a customer.  All I'm saying is money may be better spent at this point on another ride, than to keep throw money at the goose.