Best bike for short folk (new to riding)

[Yokel]

Hey all!

I've got a friend looking to get into riding and shopping for his first bike.  The guy's cursed with a pretty short inseam, like 26".    He's not wanting to spend oodles of cash on a first bike.  He's looking for something to get to know the sport of motorcycling on, but just can NOT get behind a cruiser.  

I listed the bikes that came to mind first on the poll...  Other stuff might be a later model Yamaha SECAII or something... Lowering it isn't a big deal as I'm handy with a wrench and he and I are both machinists, we can set just about anything up.  Bear in mind, price on your pick should vary between 1500-3k.

Thanks!

[Sport-Touring]

[bluepoof]

I would go with the Ninjette. It's a fantastic motorcycle and very shorty-friendly.  

The CBR250 would probably also be a great choice but I've never ridden one so can't comment on it personally.  The ergos on the Ninjette are better for me but it'd be worth sitting on both at a dealership and seeing which fits better.  The downside to the CBR is that there's not the massive used market yet as you can find with the Ninja 250.

The SV650S is a good choice as well and I rode an unlowered one for many years but it is top heavy and that can be a challenge for a brand new rider with a short inseam.

The Ninja 650 is ergonomically pretty good for us wee hobbits and I'd definitely consider that as maybe a second bike.  

[Yokel]

Thanks for the input Poof!

Yeah, I've not seen a whole lot of the CBR250's around either... what a shame.  Seems like a slick little bike.  

I had a friend with an SV, thing was a blast.  Oodles of torque... but I couldn't really remember the seat height (not something I really ever have to think about).

[ConPilot1]

Hey Poof--

My best friend's son's girlfriend just bought an '09 250 Ninja a couple months ago.

6,000 miles on it. She learned up on it, now hates it yearning for something bigger already..

I say whatever.    

It's nice. Very clean, never dumped or dropped.  Neon Kaw green and I could probably snag it for about 2500. I'd like me one of those lightweight little nice handling hi-revving bitches for hopping around town.  

I told Gary she doesn't know what she has there.

Poor Gary just had a Yamaha 600 sportbike stolen, gone. Probaby broken down by now and the frame and engine block sold for scrap. He replaced it with an R1.  


Yeah, to the OP, I gotta +1 on Poof's comment. The 250 Ninja is one fine little motorcycle, bulletproof as are most Kaw's  , run like a bastard, and are a lot of fun and a very good value for the buck. A big highway mile eater it's not I would say, but for tooling around on two-laners, twisties, or bopping around I'd be hard pressed to vote a better bike, along with a KLR maybe, but that's out of the question for a short little sawed-off bitch, no offense intended.  

[Yokel]

Funny you mention that...

I was thinking of getting one myself as a entry-level track day bike, just to kinda develop that smoothness you need on a course.  Besides, would be hilarious for a guy my size to flog the daylights out of a 250 ninja.  

[ConPilot1]

BTW OP, your avatar has to GO.

I posted a major rant one day about the stick figure shit. Makes me puke.  

I pulled up behind a huge black Toyota SUV the other night at a red light on the Connie.


Stick figures on the back window. Probably a cell phone glued to some bitches ear, too.  

[Yokel]

BTW OP, your avatar has to GO.

I posted a major rant one day about the stick figure shit. Makes me puke.  

I pulled up behind a huge black Toyota SUV the other night at a red light on the Connie.


Stick figures on the back window. Probably a cell phone glued to some bitches ear, too.  

Look more closely.... at the bottom!

[ConPilot1]

Look more closely.... at the bottom!

dr/sm  



didn't read, too small.  

My eyes are shot, close up. I'm gettin' old.  

Can't work on watches no more.








Wait, yeah I can under high magnification which is how it's done anyway.  

[ConPilot1]

The guy's cursed with a pretty short inseam, like 26".   Crazy

We got us a little loverboy around here that fits that description.  

I hear he gets off on exorcising Guzzi electrical demons.  

Gimli knows of who I speak.

Bastard rebuilds BMW transmissions too, go figure.  

[AzItLies]

Another thing to keep in mind would be type of riding. I mean if he needs to (or want to) do much highway riding... a 250 is gonna have to be wrung out pretty high, and prob not a great idea to do that for extended periods.

Too bad he's so against cruiser style bikes. There would be some great choices there, and many of them are very capable, like honda shadow rs and such.

check this article out... http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/23/first-ride-2010-honda-shadow-rs-just-another-harley-imitator/

[Yokel]

Hey, nice write-up.  Thanks for the link!  

[spd2918]

Hey all!

I've got a friend looking to get into riding

I'd never put a newb on a 650 sport bike (unless I was looking to hook up with his widow).  Seriously, find a Ninja 250 that has been dropped a few times.  That makes them very inexpensive.

[bluepoof]

Another thing to keep in mind would be type of riding. I mean if he needs to (or want to) do much highway riding... a 250 is gonna have to be wrung out pretty high, and prob not a great idea to do that for extended periods.

It's not actually that bad!  I hit the rev limiter pretty much every time I go on the freeway but the bikes are designed to be ridden at very high RPMs and going along at 70+mph (I mean, cough, the safe and legal freeway speed) is not that bad.  I mean, it's not a Goldwing, but honestly, it's not any less comfortable than my SVS was.  

There are tons of threads about highway riding at ninjette.org and anecdotally, I've never seen anyone report an engine problem because of the high RPMs of extended freeway.

[ConPilot1]

The 250 ninja is an extremely road-worthy bike from what I understand. I still wouldn't want to be munching big slab miles with it though, I'm too used to my big heavy 2 wheeled couch.  

[Papa Lazarou]

No mention of that fine little bike, the HD Sportster?

[PatM]

The 250 ninja is an extremely road-worthy bike from what I understand. I still wouldn't want to be munching big slab miles with it though, I'm too used to my big heavy 2 wheeled couch.  

It's not a bad long distance  bike. I once crossed path with a rider on the BRP that was on his way back to the west coast.
My wife, 5'3, started on one. It's a fun little bike as long as you know its limitations. It idles at 3k, and at highway speed expect 7 - 8 k RPMs. It's not buzzy, at least my wife's wasn't. Just plan ahead if you need to pass.  

[bluepoof]

at highway speed expect 7 - 8 k RPMs.

10k-12k is more fun though.

[ConPilot1]

Those little engines redline at 14.5K don't they? that's pretty impressive for a little production bike.  

[X1Glider]

I know I'm going to get chased out of here for this...

Buell Blast.  Seriously easy to ride.  Just needs oil and gas.  Not enough HP to destroy tires.  They typically dyno with 27 RWHP.  I don't think the Ninjette and CBR250 are any better in power, just in delivery.

But I actually selected the CBR250.  Compared to the big VFR1200, I prefered the baby CBR's ergos and I like the better low and mids compared to the Ninjette. Seems more user friendly.

[HipGnosis]

You / he might also want to look for a Nighthawk 250 or 450.

[veefer800canuck]

You / he might also want to look for a Nighthawk 250 or 450.

Not a sportbike. Reread poll question.

I voted Ninjette because it's a twin cylinder. Better on the highway for longer distances than a single like the CBR250.

Sounds like your friend will need it lowered anyway.

[Yokel]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I'm compiling a shopping list for the dude to use after he completes his MSF course... at least I talked him into that.  

[Gnigma]

How short are you talkin? I'm thinking a Gurney Alligator!   I'd say any  smaller bore bike would do--- narrow engine means as much as the height of the seat . I'd lean more towards a small standard than a sportbike, though. Fewer expensive parts to replace.  

[Yokel]

@ Gnigma-

I'd say he's all of maybe 5'5"...

Yeah, a thinner chassis might help, I don't think he'd be really opposed to a standard, but he just can't get behind a cruiser.  He wants something he feels more "on top" of, and I've convinced him that in the metro where we live, better handling > looking like a pirate.

Thanks for all the input guys, I've printed all this out for his perusal.  Good info all around.

[sprk_sprd]

Older Suzuki GS500 (i.e. not the current faired version).

Not a cruiser.  Not a sportbike, so no fairings to crack when your friend drops it.  And s/he will.  Can be found for  $1-2K.  Low maintenance.  Cheap insurance.  And after 6 months of learning on it, your friend can easily dump it off on CL or a neighbor.  It's the perfect beginner motorcycle.  

[Kootenanny]

Whatever bike your buddy gets, my suggestion is to learn to support it with only one foot down--usually the left (right stays on the rear brake pedal when stopped).  This is much more comfortable for a short-ass than trying to tippy-toe the bike, and will allow him to ride a taller-seated bike that he expects.  The desire to "flat-foot" a bike when learning can limit one's choices; my opinion is that short beginners should learn the one-foot-down method right off the bat, so they don't become dependent on having both feet down.  Being comfortable on bikes you can't "flat-foot" will really expand the field when it comes time to purchase the next bike.

[Powder Addict]

Ninja 650.  Easy, cheap, comfortable.

30k on mine and I still love it.

[Yokel]

Ninja 650.  Easy, cheap, comfortable.

30k on mine and I still love it.

Kid you not, true story here...

Friends @ work are selling a 650 ninja... My buddy tried it out WITH a lowering link... had to see-saw it to keep it upright.  

I'm pushing him to the 250 ninja or 250 CBR.

[Kootenanny]

Kid you not, true story here...

Friends @ work are selling a 650 ninja... My buddy tried it out WITH a lowering link... had to see-saw it to keep it upright.  

So what?

I'm shorter than your buddy (all of 5'4"), and I'd ride a regular 650 Ninja without even thinking about it.  He's gotta get out of the mental rut of needing both feet flat on the ground, or he'll be stuck with cruisers (I know at least one rider, almost exactly my height, who refuses to ride sport bikes because they're "too tall"--meanwhile, I've never owned a bike I could flatfoot since I started riding around 1977, and it has never been an issue for me).

His legs aren't gonna get any longer, he's gotta just suck it up.  Once in motion, he'll actually have an advantage over many taller riders on sport bikes because he won't have the same degree of knee bend (although he may need to move the bars back too compensate for shorter arms).

BTW, at one point before I bought my Firebolt, I did demo a Buell Lightning Low (factory lowered, 28 1/2" seat height)--I preferred the regular height Lightning, and indeed the Firebolt I ended up with was taller yet--and even taller with the harder, thicker "touring" seat I've added.  My point is, you can be perfectly comfortable with a bike you can't flatfoot.

[Dan K]

Just tell him to get some boots with lift.  Nothing wrong with that - it's a safety thing.  Will make whatever bike he buys much more comfortable.

-Dan

[bluepoof]

Just tell him to get some boots with lift.  Nothing wrong with that - it's a safety thing.  Will make whatever bike he buys much more comfortable.

-Dan

Daytona M-Star



 

[Kootenanny]

Now, Poof has a valid complaint--I've never met her, but AFAIK she really IS short (I have a sister her height, just shy of 5' tall)--so yeah, seat height is a concern for her.  Lowering links, all that stuff (and she still probably can't flatfoot her bikes).  But at 5'5", your buddy should be able to comfortably deal with the majority of bikes on the market.

I know there is a psychological advantage to being able to get both feet down, but--it's a crutch, and as I said earlier, the earlier done away with, the better.

(BTW, you mentioned he had to "see-saw" the Ninja 650--that indicates to me that he's trying to get both feet down.  Tell him to put his right foot up on the peg and cover the brake pedal, and only keep his left foot on the ground--he can kinda scootch his butt over to the left if he has to.  There are advantages to this beyond making it easier to balance the bike; for example, hill starts are MUCH easier for a beginner if he's holding the bike with the rear brake and can concentrate on the throttle only with his right hand.  It's the method I taught when I was an instructor, and I do it myself to this day.)

[bluepoof]

Now, Poof has a valid complaint--I've never met her, but AFAIK she really IS short (I have a sister her height, just shy of 5' tall)--so yeah, seat height is a concern for her.  Lowering links, all that stuff (and she still probably can't flatfoot her bikes).  But at 5'5", your buddy should be able to comfortably deal with the majority of bikes on the market.

Yay, I'm validated!    Yeah, I've never flatfoot a bike in my life (even my Ninja 250).  I'm 5'1", 27" inseam.  

I can see the point for wanting more foot down as a brand new rider, though.  My first "real" bike was the SV650S, which I never lowered (I've only ever lowered one bike) and, while I was obviously certainly capable of riding it, I never really stopped being intimidated by it.  Some of it is that the SVS was pretty top-heavy, so once it started tipping over, it was going over -- and it went over at 0mph a LOT -- but I can see wanting the crutch of being close to flatfooting for one's first bike.

You're totally right though, of course, that it's not necessary.  And I completely agree with the cover-the-right-brake-and-keep-the-left-foot-on-the-ground method.  That's absolutely the way to go.

I'm a way better rider on the Ninjette than I ever was on the SVS -- in part because of the extra years of riding, but also because the bike just fits me better.  I wonder whether I would have been a much better rider had I started on something like a Ninjette that was less intimidating (physical size of the bike only; I'm not referring to displacement).

[Broncsrule21]

I voted for the Ninja 250, because that is what my first bike was. (brand new off the show room floor in 1989!)  

[Kootenanny]

Yay, I'm validated!    Yeah, I've never flatfoot a bike in my life (even my Ninja 250).  I'm 5'1", 27" inseam.  

I'm a way better rider on the Ninjette than I ever was on the SVS -- in part because of the extra years of riding, but also because the bike just fits me better.  I wonder whether I would have been a much better rider had I started on something like a Ninjette that was less intimidating (physical size of the bike only; I'm not referring to displacement).

Yes, you're validated and quite pregnant   (only two weeks to go, eh? )

Intimidation...yeah, it's a factor, I'd say more of a factor than many riders (especially young guys) will ever admit.  The thing is, Poof, you were kinda forced into riding bikes you couldn't flatfoot, and you just learned how--it was that, or don't ride at all (at least, so I assume--that's how it was for me, anyway).  A guy who's 5'5" or so, though, is on the crux--he has a choice, there may be some bikes he can flatfoot, or at least nearly so, especially if he considers a cruiser.  My issue is that if he goes that route, he may get "locked in" to that mindset, like the cruiser rider I mentioned above, who's convinced she can't ride a sport bike due to seat height.  I think that crutch is best thrown out early, because once a person depends on it, they can have trouble giving it up.

[Yokel]

Hmm...

Maybe it's my thinking that needs to change.  I'm a 6-footer and can flat-foot pretty much anything (probably my fat ass squashing the springs helps too).  I've always kinda treated the feet as a landing gear, they only touch at a dead stop and don't move again until I start feathering the clutch, then it's immediately back to the pegs.  I'm a feet down snob if you will, and secretly snicker at the pirates on their cruisers who have to waddle away from an intersection and then it takes them 10 minutes to get their feet on the floorboards.

Anyway, for ME, I drop both and I'm set.  It's a habit I learned with the good Oklahoma pickup trucks that bleed 10w30 all over the damn roads around here.  Today on my commute I did the one foot covering brake, one on the ground, and I was really pretty surprised.  Found myself paying closer attention to where I was stopping, where my foot would be planting at and it just felt more natural.

I sense a technique change.

[bluepoof]

A guy who's 5'5" or so, though, is on the crux--he has a choice, there may be some bikes he can flatfoot, or at least nearly so, especially if he considers a cruiser.  

True, but Yokel's first post said that the friend has a very short inseam, like 26".  That's even shorter than mine.  He would have some advantage in the height department because the reach to the bars would presumably be easier for him (I'm guessing his extra inches would be made up in torso), but inseam seems more relevant than strict height.

[bluepoof]

I've always kinda treated the feet as a landing gear, they only touch at a dead stop and don't move again until I start feathering the clutch, then it's immediately back to the pegs.  I'm a feet down snob if you will, and secretly snicker at the pirates on their cruisers who have to waddle away from an intersection and then it takes them 10 minutes to get their feet on the floorboards.

That's absolutely true, but when you don't have a lot of inseam, you have to really pay attention to putting your feet down at a dead stop.   If you're tiptoeing your bike as opposed to flatfooting (or even having the balls of your feet firmly on the ground), you can get into trouble if your dead stop has even the slightest bit of sand/oil/gravel, or if it's at a camber -- I always put my left foot down, for example, and if the road tilts down to the left, I can lose my balance really quickly.  With a lightweight bike, that's less of a problem, but if you're tiptoeing a top-heavy bike and the ground isn't where you expect it to be...

Also, parking fun.  My husband is 6'4", bless his heart, and he still doesn't understand why I have to circle the parking lot before choosing a spot to park in.  Even though I don't "duck waddle" the bike while sitting on it -- I get off and push the bike from the side, always -- I have to make sure I'm not parking at a decline or on a camber.  
 
BTW, I totally make fun of those guys too that take half a block to put their feet back up on the pegs.  I call it hoverfooting and I always yell about it when I see it, even if I'm in the car.  This is potentially one reason why I have few friends.    But seriously, I see people do it all the time (sport bikes, too) and it's just stupid. I have no problem being a Judgey McJudgeyFace about hoverfeet.

[Yokel]

Sadly, today it looks like all this may be a moot point... the guy's got the house-bug now and is actively shopping.

A bike may be back-burnered for a while, and wisely, he's not looking until he's got the MSF course done.

[Yokel]

 I call it hoverfooting and I always yell about it when I see it, even if I'm in the car.  This is potentially one reason why I have few friends.    But seriously, I see people do it all the time (sport bikes, too) and it's just stupid. I have no problem being a Judgey McJudgeyFace about hoverfeet.

/thieving hoverfooting.

That's too funny.  *hi-five to the other judgemental jerk*  

Hahaha!

[Papa Lazarou]

Honda monkey bike.,

[Kootenanny]

Yeah, tall guys never understand these discussions

(And I gotta say, whenever I've been told a bike was "too tall" for me, it's always been by a tall guy--who, lets face it, has zero experience with riding a "tall" bike, because they've never had to ride anything they can't flatfoot...they can't understand how I can be perfectly comfortable on a bike when I can only get one foot down...)

BTW, the "house bug" will do it to ya.  Is this guy married?--if so, we might as well end this thread now

[Yokel]

Ha, no...  He's not married.

But he does show up about twice a month after a weekend bender telling me about this new girl he's going to take home to mom.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Ha, no...  He's not married.

But he does show up about twice a month after a weekend bender telling me about this new girl he's going to take home to mom.

 

Baaaaaaaaaaaa

[Gnigma]

Yeah, tall guys never understand these discussions

(And I gotta say, whenever I've been told a bike was "too tall" for me, it's always been by a tall guy--who, lets face it, has zero experience with riding a "tall" bike, because they've never had to ride anything they can't flatfoot...they can't understand how I can be perfectly comfortable on a bike when I can only get one foot down...)

BTW, the "house bug" will do it to ya.  Is this guy married?--if so, we might as well end this thread now

Hey, tall people were not always tall! Back when a Honda CB750 was a hot bike, I had to hang off on the left at stops.

[Giaka]

@ Gnigma-

I'd say he's all of maybe 5'5"...

Thought you said he was short. My wife is 4'11" and rides a slightly lowered SV650S. Learned on a Ninja 250 and has also spent time on a stock CBR600F4i.