Went For A Couple Test Rides...

[antimatter]

I decided to take today off work because tomorrow and the weekend could be a wash-out.  Not that I don't ride in the rain, but there aren't many dealerships what will let you take a bike out for a test when it's wet out.

Background:  I currently have three working motorcycles (and one busted pit bike); a 2008 DR-650, a 2005 ZX-6R, and a 2006 Ural Gear-Up.  I had a get-off at a track day back in 2010 and managed bust my left collar bone into about 20 pieces.  One titanium plate and a couple of months recovery later, my ardor for track days has cooled a bit.  I did go and do some short track stuff, where I spend the majority of my time in 2nd and 3rd gear on the ZX.  So, I've decided to re-visit my sport touring roots and take some trips.  The fact is that none of us lives forever, and there's really no reason to put off doing what you want until later.

With that in mind I started to shop for a future sport touring machine.  With the wonders of the internet, I'm able to compare a bunch of different bikes, as well as see what current owners are crowing or griping about.  A friend of mine works in the parts department for a local dealership, and emailed me that they were having a demo day today and tomorrow.  So I jumped on the DR-650 and headed down to check it out.  They had three bikes that they were letting folks demo; a 2013 ZX-6R, the new 300cc Ninja, and a 2012 ZG1400 Concours.  i had relegated the Concours to the back-burner, mostly because of it's weight and it's mechanical complexity.  I really prefer bikes that I can do the routine maintenance on myself, as it saves me some money and makes the economics of motorcycle commuting seem like a better deal.  By all accounts doing a valve adjustment on the Concours is a real nightmare, and involves lots of parts and complexity.  I admit that I start to sweat a bit when I have to check the valves on the ZX-6R, just because there is a ton of stuff that needs to come off before you even get to the valve cover.  Trying to remember the wiring routing for everything is a PITA.  But I thought, what the heck.  I would take out the ZG1400 out and rule it out of the running once and for all.

Holy moley, that is one fast bike!  I have to admit that the power was intoxicating.  The bike seems to lose a lot of weight once it's running, and the moveable windshield kept all the wind off me in the full up position.  I took the Concours for a quick run down the freeway near the dealership, and was hampered a bit by a state trooper hiding under the underpass near the dealership, but once I got a couple of miles down the road I decided to try putting the bike in 6th gear and accelerating from about 35 mph.  The big ZG just shrugged it off and zipped up to 90 mph as quick as you like.  While waiting at a light to turn around and head back to the dealership, a couple guys complimented me on the bike and asked what it was, so I got my ego stroked as well.   I rode back to the dealer's parking lot and turned in the fob thingy, and rode off to another dealership on the other side of town.

The 2nd dealership has a used FJR that I wanted to try, but after checking the seat was in the low position I just couldn't get comfortable.  The FJR is so wide and I'm short (5' 6") that I felt like a little kid on a fat pony.  I just couldn't get comfortable, so I canned the ride.  Instead, I asked to take out a BMW F800GT.  The beemer turned out to be a great, fun bike, and the belt drive has very little in the way of lash.  I took it down a twisty road near the dealership, and it was great fun - very quick and easy to ride.  But it was, frankly, boring.  And relatively expensive, for what it was-with all the amenities including ESA, heated grips, tire pressure monitoring, blah blah.  The dealership quoted me $13k plus $1K for luggage and keying, while the Concours was quoted at $12.9K, which included Corbin heated seats and back rest.

I'm bummed that the FJR was a bust for me, and I know I should be considering the BMW, but I can't stop thinking about the freight-train pull the big ZG had.  Owning one could be very dangerous to my driver's license, and cost me a mint in tires as well.

If anyone has any thoughts about the ZG1400, from a maintenance or ownership standpoint, let me know.  There are a bunch of last generation ZG's for sale locally that I could get for under $10K (possible under $8K).  I'm seriously tempted.  And I'd have to decide which bike to get rid of...

[Sport-Touring]

[danketchpel]

I'm very surprised by your take on the FJR. I have considered both the Connie 14 and FJR and have ridden both a couple times. I felt the FJR was the smaller / narrower of the two and lighter also. The shear heft and width of the Connie put me off. I share your feelings about the motor, very dangerous to the license. I prefer the power of the FJR as it's a little stronger down low. The Connie has more on top but both have too much anyway unless you live in Germany. I do prefer the 6 spd trans of the Connie but the spread of ratios in the FJR is pretty good.

I think both would be a pain to work on as are so many modern bikes.

Have you condidered a used BMW RT? They are pretty good sport tourers and the flat twin is comparatively easy to service. They are also lighter than both of the Japanese bikes. If you like character you might also consider a Moto Guzzi Norge.

For myself I decided I prefer the Adventure style bike instead mostly for the riding position and longer travel suspension.

When I was trying to make the same decision a couple years ago I decided to buy a 2006 Vstrom 1000 to try out the format. It worked quite well for me and my wife. I just recently purchased a Moto Guzzi Stelvio to replace the Vstrom and plan to keep that bike long term as my touring bike.

About the only reason I decided to sell the Vstrom was the chain drive, I really prefer shaft drive. It was also a little harder to work on than I liked.

I hope that helps. I would suggest giving an FJR a second chance and try to ride one. I'm 5' 9" with a short inseam. I sat on one with Heli bars and it was nearly perfect for me. I didn't ride that one though.

[sleazy rider]

BMW RT?  At 5'6"?  I have reach issues on one with a 30" inseam.  I think the difference in seat heights had something to do with the custom seat on the Connie vs. the stock seat on the FJR.

What's the service interval for valves on the Connie?  If its 12k miles or more, I really wouldnt sweat that as most folks would only be doing it once a year and you can do them in the winter down time.  Ride an older Connie before you go that way.  No comparison between the two models.

[wibornz]

If you think the Connie was fast, spend twenty minute pull the flies.  It added twenty six HP at 3000 rpm.

I have the vavles cheched 25,000 miles.  I had the vavles cheched at 15000 the first time. Then at approx 25000 each time after that.  They have not moved since the first check.

[antimatter]

I actually used to own a 2000 R1100RT and loved it, but that relationship ended when it ate the input shaft to the transmission at 36,000 miles.  It was a retitled salvage bike, so fixing it wasn't cost effective and I decided to part it out.  I realize that this is a bit controversial, but when I started looking at street bikes, I wanted one that would have dealer support in all 50 states, something the more 'exotic' marques don't have.  That precluded Aprilia, Ducati, BMW, or Moto Guzzi.  I know plenty of folks who tour, heck even IBR on those bikes, but I don't want the headache of being stuck 1500 miles from home waiting for parts.  Perhaps when I'm retired (if I ever get to), but right now I get 3 weeks of vacation per year, so my time is limited.  I'm aware that Japanese bikes need to have parts shipped in, and there are guys who've gone 300,000 miles on their airhead without a hassle, but if I'm going to splash out for a big sport-touring machine, it has to meet my collection of irrational prejudices.  So, no single dry plate clutches that require splitting the bike in half to change, and no bikes that you can't get parts for during the month of August.  And hey, I ride a Ural, so I get plenty of 'character'.

For the FJR vs Connie, I don't know if its the shape of the seat, but on the FJR I am on the very tips of my toes like a ballerina and I really feel like I'm straddling a barrel.  On the Concours, I can get the balls of my feet down and the feel of the pegs is a lot more ergonomically correct.  It's a personal thing, but my body shape (round is a shape, right?) just doesn't work on the FJR.  If they would make the roads wide enough that I could ride in a circle at red lights, I suppose it would work.  But sitting at one at the dealership and trying to rock it off the sidestand, it was a no-go.

Frankly, this a great personal problem to have as compared to others I could face.  I need to find an ST1300 to take for a test ride next.  I hope everyone understands that I'm not hacking on their choices, please understand that I will never question other folks' choices for what they ride.  I just want what I want.

[sleazy rider]

   It's the internet, I take nothing personal.  Yes, round is definitely a shape.  I qualify too.    

It was just a thought that occurred to me from reading your physical description and the options on the two bikes.  If you're like me, you'll find the ST1300 boring.  It rides superbly, but it's like eating vanilla pudding.  I put 600 miles on a rental one over a weekend and it just did what it was supposed to do, but I'd rather ride a bike with more feedback and worldly input.  Range is outstanding with the 7+ gallon tank, plenty of accessories available and there are dealers everywhere.  I had more fun on a TransAlp 700 or pretty much anything else with two wheels.  *shrug*

FWIW, I'm with ya on the BMW clutch setup.  Sense?  It has none.

[Cablebandit]

  If you're like me, you'll find the ST1300 boring.  It rides superbly, but it's like eating vanilla pudding.  

 

I really wanted to love the ST1300 but felt like I was driving a Civic around.

I'm sure the C14 fit your short legs a little better due to the taper at the front of the seat.  The FJR is a little more square towards the front, forcing your legs out to the side instead of straight down.

[SoCalFJR]

Anti.........any of the bikes with tupperware are a complete nightmare to work on......none of them have zippers......lol.......as for maintenance the FJR is about as maintenance free as you're going to get.....spin on oil filter and you can literally do an oil change in 15 minutes without splattering all over.  Valve checks are supposed to be at 26K........I just went til 40K on my Gen 1 and had a retired master Yam mechanic do my valve check for me, and 4 exhausts were a little tight so he brought them into mid spec and I expect I will go another 40K before they get looked at again YMMV.  The C14 has a little shorter valve check, and from what I've heard is really a PITA to do........but I don't own one so take it for what its worth.  Good luck on your search.......a lot of good machines out there...........    

[PatM]

I'm surprised that you found the C14 lower than the FJR. I've tried both and one of the reason I went with the FJR was because of the seat height. I'm 5'9 and can almost flat foot the bike around. I couldn't on the C14. That is with the original seat. Maybe if you tried an FJR with a Corbin it would be different.  
A friend of mine, he's 5'6, lowered his C14 so he could reach the ground.

I guess the Corbin seat must be a lot lower that the original or the bike was lowered.

Maintenance wise, not a big issue. The C14 takes longer to get to the engine, for valve check and adjustment and plugs but it's not like you have to do that at each oil change.
It's powerful but there is a cost for that. Fuel range is short, shorter if you are heavy handed.
There is always the issues with the KiPass. Don't loose it. C14 owners blame it for all their woes.  
There's a bunch of mods and farkles out there for that bike.

All in all, it's a great bike

[antimatter]

If you look at the shape of both saddles, you can see where I have a problem.  The FJR's seat is much more 'square' than the Concours', and that tapering make all the difference for me.  It could be that the Connie I rode had a Corbin seat, I don't know.  What can I say, I was on the tips of my toes on the FJR.  If someone made a smaller sport-touring machine that wasn't neutered power-wise, I'd think about getting that.

I'm also in no hurry.  I usually have the best luck buying bikes in August or September, right before the local dealers switch over to snowmobiles.

I have to admit, having owned the previous Concours (GTR-1000) I feel kind of a pull to the Kawi.

[Silverbird]

Any bike can be lowered, even at the dealer so to write a bike off cause you can't get comfortable is silly.   If you are concerned about maintenance, have a look at the procedure for adjusting the C14's valves

Also, any of the big ST bike fully loaded with a full tank of fuel can be a real handful in certain situations. How about a B12, Ninja 1000 or FZ1 with some touring mods?

[Stripes]

Or a Triumph Sprint ST 955/1050 or Sprint GT...

[Cablebandit]

  If you are concerned about maintenance, have a look at the procedure for adjusting the C14's valves

This always makes me chuckle.

If you aren't comfortable doing the valves just drop it off at a competent shop and pick it up the next day.  If you can't afford the $4-500 they will charge you to do the valves you sure can't afford the tire bill if you actually ride the thing.

[wibornz]

My shop is usually around the 300 dollar mark for the valve on my c14.  For 300 bucks, I have no interest in doing the work myself.

[PatM]

This always makes me chuckle.

If you aren't comfortable doing the valves just drop it off at a competent shop and pick it up the next day.  If you can't afford the $4-500 they will charge you to do the valves you sure can't afford the tire bill if you actually ride the thing.

True that.  

$4-500 is not that expensive if you compare. A friend of mine bought a '12 Ducati MS1200 and asked his dealer for a quote on valve adjustment. The dealer quoted between $1400 - 1800 depending on how much adjustment they need to do.  

[Stripes]

This always makes me chuckle.

If you aren't comfortable doing the valves just drop it off at a competent shop and pick it up the next day.  If you can't afford the $4-500 they will charge you to do the valves you sure can't afford the tire bill if you actually ride the thing.

   +1.

If you have to ask how much something costs, then you probably can't afford it anyway.

[sleazy rider]

   +1.

If you have to ask how much something costs, then you probably can't afford it anyway.

Or, it gives you incentive to actually learn what's happening inside your main mode of transportation.  I've had a few less than stellar experiences with dealers screwing shit up.  

For those of us on fixed incomes, $500 will pay for a nice weeklong road trip too.  

[antimatter]

Any bike can be lowered, even at the dealer so to write a bike off cause you can't get comfortable is silly.   If you are concerned about maintenance, have a look at the procedure for adjusting the C14's valves

Also, any of the big ST bike fully loaded with a full tank of fuel can be a real handful in certain situations. How about a B12, Ninja 1000 or FZ1 with some touring mods?

I'm looking for something that has a bit more weather protection.  I love the look of the first generation FZ1, but I could also keep my current DR-650 and put a set of bags on it.  With a -1 front sprocket it will do 80 mph all day.

For whatever reason, the Triumph stuff doesn't do it for me.  The 2nd dealer I went to is a BMW/Honda/Triumph/Kawasaki franchise, and I sat on a couple of bikes including the Tiger.  Nope, it just didn't speak to me.

I know I could buy something and modify it, but I've owned enough bikes and have been riding long enough that I know that modifications can be very hit or miss as to their effectiveness.  I really don't like lowering bikes.  Again, this is a personal thing and I wouldn't ever think to tell someone else what to do, but whenever I see a vehicle that has been modified enough to nullify it's primary purpose, part of me dies inside.  If you want to see me turn red and wave my arms in the air, start talking about the virtues of lowering a pickup truck.  Lowering a sport or sport-touring bike and giving up cornering clearance just doesn't make sense.  You could ride a lower-seated cruiser, have the same cornering clearance, and have saved a lot of money.  Again, that's me.  Do what works for you.

As to the maintenance issue, I'll probably tough it out and do it myself.  Apparently, there is a good set of videos that detail the process that are available, and I can always poke around on the Ural while I'm waiting for parts.  I also have a good independent shop just 5 miles away or so that I can drop the bike off at if I decide I don't have time, but I generally prefer to do the work myself.

I appreciate all the feedback, BTW.  

My wife is having a great time watching me debate with myself over this issue.  She gets a kick out of watching me twist myself into knots every spring.

[Mortech]

The C14 is sweet and after riding one of those I found the RT to be a dog in comparison , it had nice amenities but by trusty old C10 runs rings around them , its not much zipperer than the F800GT . Have you tried the K1300S ? I'm really wanting one as my second bike.

[DrMikey]

 
I asked to take out a BMW F800GT.  The beemer turned out to be a great, fun bike, and the belt drive has very little in the way of lash.  I took it down a twisty road near the dealership, and it was great fun - very quick and easy to ride.   

Yesterday, I took a ride down a twisty road on a used BMW F800ST at a Kawa/Suzuki/Yamaha/Victory dealer.  I was similarly struck by the bike, but wondered why it didn't come to the top of my "what to do when it's time to replace the 10 year old R1150RT" list.  

But it was, frankly, boring.

hmmm... yep.  Maybe it's because they haven't been around as long as the boxer and don't have the locomotive power of the K series, but the F series seems to lack the capacity to inspire any passion.