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Topic: EBR 1190RX released  (Read 10537 times)

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« on: October 16, 2013, 12:45:03 pm »

http://www.erikbuellracing.com/motorcycles/ebr1190rx/

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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2013, 12:57:12 pm »

Fatter than expected for the class, 450 pounds fuelled up.  But still a nice bike.

Oh, and it's economical and has long legs (thanks Aprilia Forums/AF1 Racing!):





http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?280015-AF1-Racing-is-officially-the-EBR-dealer-for-Austin-and-the-1190RX-is-coming-soon&p=3494448&viewfull=1#post3494448

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« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2013, 01:07:04 pm »

Nice looking American sportbike!  

21-levels of traction control, but no ABS?
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 01:11:05 pm »


Nice looking American sportbike!  

21-levels of traction control, but no ABS?


Worked for the APRC RSV4 and Tuono V4 for a few years.   Bosch has that market cornered and they ain't cheap or fast.  Expect ABS in a year or two if sales are solid.  And maybe the ZTL complicates things as well.
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2013, 01:28:20 pm »

what is:  
Exhaust     Primary + Secondary
in the specs?
 
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2013, 01:30:47 pm »


what is:  
Exhaust     Primary + Secondary
in the specs?
 


This:



Headers-to-cat/underslung silencer is primary, the rest is the secondary.
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2013, 05:43:58 pm »


Fatter than expected for the class, 450 pounds fuelled up.  But still a nice bike.


Well the Duc 1199 which is ridiculously light weighs 425 fully fueled (compared to 446 for the 1190RX).  21 LBS over isn't THAT bad, especially when you can take out a gallon of fuel (6lbs) and still have the same tank range.  It'll be interesting to see what it REALLY weighs though.  Manufactures tend to be less than honest about that.  
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 07:23:21 pm »

Nice, but after all these years it just looks like a boring old sport bike. Not exactly what I expected from Erik Buell.

Kinda lost the edge that made me lust after a Buell.


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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 07:57:15 pm »


Nice, but after all these years it just looks like a boring old sport bike. Not exactly what I expected from Erik Buell.

Kinda lost the edge that made me lust after a Buell.


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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 07:58:44 pm »


Nice, but after all these years it just looks like a boring old sport bike. Not exactly what I expected from Erik Buell.

Kinda lost the edge that made me lust after a Buell.


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Different strokes I reckon, the 1190 line is the first Buell-designed bike I actually cotton to the looks of.  To my eyes, everything else predating the 1190 was an eyesore, some worse than others, but all unattractive.  
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« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 07:59:22 pm »

Tough room. Love it.  Bigok
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 09:34:57 pm »

52 mpg, hmmm commuter, yeah, yeah I won't make a centerstand comment Lol, but I wonder if it would power my heated gear.

Single shock without linkage? Headscratch
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 10:50:25 pm »

Asphalt and Rubber reports a no-fuel weight of 419 lb.  That's pretty competitive.  Also, with a 6 gal tank (frame?), a sport touring version can't be far behind.  It would require a different sub frame, taller bars, lower pegs and an adjustable windshield.
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« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2013, 01:09:52 am »


Asphalt and Rubber reports a no-fuel weight of 419 lb.  That's pretty competitive.  Also, with a 6 gal tank (frame?), a sport touring version can't be far behind.  It would require a different sub frame, taller bars, lower pegs and an adjustable windshield.


He's making a naked SX,  and a long travel suspension AX adventure variant...but no traditional sport touring variant in the cards.
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2013, 08:07:55 am »


Nice, but after all these years it just looks like a boring old sport bike. Not exactly what I expected from Erik Buell.

Kinda lost the edge that made me lust after a Buell.


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Agreed.  This thing looks like just about every other sportbike out there.  Perhaps it looks decent next to that new BMW abortion.

I don't see why everyone has the steaming undies for this guy.


And for that matter, how many will buy one?  There's a whole lot of cheering for Buell but at the end of the day unless you buy one you're not helping this guy out at all.

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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2013, 11:49:22 am »

One thing's for certain, it is im-freaking-possible to design a bike to satisfy an internet audience.  I think there's a 0.00001 inch wide line between "looks like an abortion" and "looks like every other sport bike".  I never cease to be amazed at internet cynics that delight in refusing to be impressed by anything ever.

Nope, I won't be helping EBR by not buying one of these bikes.  OTOH, EBR went from NOTHING 4 years ago to a world-class $40k superbike 3 years ago to a world-class $19k superbike this year.  I figure at that rate, in another 2 years they'll have something for $10k that will suit me quite nicely.  
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2013, 12:02:42 pm »


Asphalt and Rubber reports a no-fuel weight of 419 lb.  That's pretty competitive.  Also, with a 6 gal tank (frame?), a sport touring version can't be far behind.  It would require a different sub frame, taller bars, lower pegs and an adjustable windshield.


Unfortunately, I would imagine that just like Aprilia, EBR has no real plans for an ST bike. Like it or not, this segment is not on the radar just now. The demographic has moved on to more upright riding positions a la Adventure machines. Sport, Naked and Adventure are where it is at from a marketing perspective.

I would like a modern Ape Futura with the V4 but that is not going to happen anytime soon.
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2013, 12:26:19 pm »


One thing's for certain, it is im-freaking-possible to design a bike to satisfy an internet audience.  I think there's a 0.00001 inch wide line between "looks like an abortion" and "looks like every other sport bike".  I never cease to be amazed at internet cynics that delight in refusing to be impressed by anything ever.

Nope, I won't be helping EBR by not buying one of these bikes.  OTOH, EBR went from NOTHING 4 years ago to a world-class $40k superbike 3 years ago to a world-class $19k superbike this year.  I figure at that rate, in another 2 years they'll have something for $10k that will suit me quite nicely.  


^This

The guy has basically built three modern motorcycle companies, from scratch, in the last 30 years.

Think about that.

If he ever placed the energy into building street bikes that he does (and has) into building race bikes, there would be no doubt at all about the success his company we achieve.

Even given his refusal to abandon racing, betting against the guy would be, I think, an error.
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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2013, 02:02:54 pm »


One thing's for certain, it is im-freaking-possible to design a bike to satisfy an internet audience.  I think there's a 0.00001 inch wide line between "looks like an abortion" and "looks like every other sport bike".  I never cease to be amazed at internet cynics that delight in refusing to be impressed by anything ever.

Nope, I won't be helping EBR by not buying one of these bikes.  OTOH, EBR went from NOTHING 4 years ago to a world-class $40k superbike 3 years ago to a world-class $19k superbike this year.  I figure at that rate, in another 2 years they'll have something for $10k that will suit me quite nicely.  


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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2013, 04:20:45 pm »


One thing's for certain, it is im-freaking-possible to design a bike to satisfy an internet audience.  I think there's a 0.00001 inch wide line between "looks like an abortion" and "looks like every other sport bike".  I never cease to be amazed at internet cynics that delight in refusing to be impressed by anything ever.

Nope, I won't be helping EBR by not buying one of these bikes.  OTOH, EBR went from NOTHING 4 years ago to a world-class $40k superbike 3 years ago to a world-class $19k superbike this year.  I figure at that rate, in another 2 years they'll have something for $10k that will suit me quite nicely.  


+ MotherF&$*ing 1. People need some perspective. Many others have failed trying to do what Erik Buell has done more than once. He built a world class bike while starting from a whole different place than Ducati or KTM or Aprilia, not to mention the big manufacturers. Here is an American racer pursuing his dream and building a very exciting bike. There is a lot to like about that.
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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2013, 05:00:15 pm »

I genuinely look forward to seeing the other street bike models that are supposed to be coming. The RX is quite a machine, but I'm definitely not in the market for a replica racer sport bike. Though I am very glad Buell is building them!
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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2013, 06:38:57 pm »



      Yawn   Sleepy
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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2013, 11:36:51 pm »


Unfortunately, I would imagine that just like Aprilia, EBR has no real plans for an ST bike. Like it or not, this segment is not on the radar just now. The demographic has moved on to more upright riding positions a la Adventure machines. Sport, Naked and Adventure are where it is at from a marketing perspective.

I would like a modern Ape Futura with the V4 but that is not going to happen anytime soon.


The reason why those upright, Adventure machines are so popular is because:

It represents possibilities.  The possibility of Adventure even if it never goes on one (same thing with today's Crossover SUVs).

These are high margin bikes.  What manufacturer and dealer would not want a high margin bike?

Adventure machines are designed for older, ie fatter people, who can't ride a sportbike or even an ST bike.  They are the ones who can afford it.  It's a fad but a profitable one so everyone is in on it.  Let's face it, they only look like they can go offroad but the reality is most of them never make it there and are ridden on interstates and/or the local watering hole.

Sportbikes are still selling and selling well.  Except most of their buyers are younger folks who normally won't plunk down more than $15k on a motorcycle.  The financing is also harder on most sportbikes except those from BMW because BMW has its own Financing arm who can lend with hefty underwriting.  

I have no idea if the 1190RX will be competitive until reviews come in.  However, price out a Ducati 1199 and that $18k price on the EBR 1190RX begins to make sense.  A fully loaded up Panigale 1199 S is $25k.  As for the weight comment, it's not the lightest but neither is it the heaviest.  The Aprilia RSV4 weighs 465 lbs. wet with half tank of fuel I believe.  The Yamaha R1 isn't that far from it either.  So 446 lbs. fully fueled with 6 gallons is pretty damn good. Again, until we see a full review it's hard to tell.  
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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2013, 11:43:05 pm »


  I figure at that rate, in another 2 years they'll have something for $10k that will suit me quite nicely.  


I doubt it.

Even if they did it wouldn't be anything like an 1190RX or even an aircooled one.  They couldn't do that with the Buell 1125R back in 2010 with Harley's distribution network.
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« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2013, 11:50:10 pm »


Nice, but after all these years it just looks like a boring old sport bike. Not exactly what I expected from Erik Buell.

Kinda lost the edge that made me lust after a Buell.


I think the Panigale has shown us what can be done with design.  However, sportbikes look the way they do for a reason.  Have you looked at the Adventure bikes today?  They all look alike, duckbills and all.  The Yamaha Tenerie looks like Duffy Duck with its bill removed!   Lol

The 1190RX looks very much like the hand built 1190RS, which is pretty handsome and distinctive as sportbikes go.  As far as I'm concerned motorcycle designs simply follow the theme of the period and genre.  All the brands are not too far removed from each other, just like every other Genre.  If Indian can sell their 1950's looking bikes then I think there's room for a boring old 1190RX for $18k.   Lol
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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2013, 05:54:00 am »




I doubt it.

Even if they did it wouldn't be anything like an 1190RX or even an aircooled one.  They couldn't do that with the Buell 1125R back in 2010 with Harley's distribution network.


Maybe not $10k, but I'm sure $19k is not close to the least expensive bike EBR intends to ever market.  Remember EBR is hooked up with the largest manufacturer of motorcycles and scooters in the world.  They have pockets so deep HD would get lost in them.
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2013, 09:26:12 am »




Maybe not $10k, but I'm sure $19k is not close to the least expensive bike EBR intends to ever market.  Remember EBR is hooked up with the largest manufacturer of motorcycles and scooters in the world.  They have pockets so deep HD would get lost in them.


I wouldn't be surprised to see Buell designed, Indian built machines wearing EBR logos in the states. If that happens prices should be comparable to the Indian built KTMs depending on displacement and features.

Personally, I'm looking forward to it.
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« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2013, 01:27:53 am »


Unfortunately, I would imagine that just like Aprilia, EBR has no real plans for an ST bike. Like it or not, this segment is not on the radar just now. The demographic has moved on to more upright riding positions a la Adventure machines. Sport, Naked and Adventure are where it is at from a marketing perspective.

I would like a modern Ape Futura with the V4 but that is not going to happen anytime soon.

You're probably right, and that doesn't hurt my feelings one bit.  Frankly, I prefer "Adventure" bikes.  Not that I harbor any Dakar fantasies - I just like the roomy seating position.  Heck, I wish my Tiger 800 had more leg room.
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« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2013, 09:54:28 am »


.... Also, with a 6 gal tank (frame?), a sport touring version can't be far behind.  It would require a different sub frame, taller bars, lower pegs and an adjustable windshield.


Erik Buell will not build a Sport Touring Version of the 1190.  I have heard it from his own mouth at Buell Homecoming in the past:, "ST bikes don't sell."

He MIGHT pursue another iteration of the Uly, which was by far the best selling Buell ever.  But it would only ever be as a way to fund further development of the super sports and his racing interests.  If he did it, it would be be high performance, light weight, stripped down and utilitarian ala KTM Adventure - very similar to the original Uly.   I give it low odds though, in no small part because the Thunderstorm power-plant was actually a better solution for that platform.
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« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2013, 10:48:18 am »

He's already said he's rolling out the 1190AX by next summer, which is the answer to the Uly in the lineup, and the final model to be built on this platform after the naked 1190SX rolls out next spring.

He's got a mandate from Hero to actually get market penetration with the new street bikes, not just homologation numbers and podium visits.
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« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2013, 12:26:29 pm »


He's already said he's rolling out the 1190AX by next summer, which is the answer to the Uly in the lineup,


I bet it won't be a true adventure bike.  I bet it will be the equivalent to the Buell XB12STT.  We've seen this playbook before - its just a Naked Sport bike with taller suspension.

http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/buell/2008-buell-lightning-super-tt-xb12stt-ar53607.html
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« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2013, 07:45:45 pm »

And that's just fine with me.  The market is saturated with skinny tire/Jesse pannier mounting platforms. On the other hand, there's room to make a mark competing with the Multistrada 1200.
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« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2013, 01:33:16 pm »




Erik Buell will not build a Sport Touring Version of the 1190.  I have heard it from his own mouth at Buell Homecoming in the past:, "ST bikes don't sell."


While I am a fan of Buell, and wish him (and his employees) well, pointing to statements like this (I heard the same, btw) is setting yourself up for, well, being left flat footed.

Buells do not need water cooling.

The Blast is a great platform that we are proud to make.

The sportie powerplant is enough for our sportbike design.

Do any of these sound vaguely familiar to long-time Buell watchers?

Buell is an hell of an engineer, and good entrepreneur, and a pretty damn good marketer . . . . . as such, he'll say what he thinks his comany needs to have said.
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« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2013, 03:29:06 pm »

Except for the fact that, well, ST bikes don't sell.  Never have, even when they were in their heyday around the turn of the century.

Just don't confuse ST bikes with GT bikes.  Guys who own an FJR, C14, BMW K-bike, etc, own GTs, even if GT isn't in the actual nomenclature of the particular bike.  And for that matter, GT bikes don't sell all that well either, but they do have nice margins so they're profitable enough to keep manufacturing and allow for the occasional update to be viable.
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« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2013, 05:37:55 pm »

I like the, GT  Thumbsup
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« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2013, 02:22:20 pm »


Buell is an hell of an engineer, and good entrepreneur, and a pretty damn good marketer . . . . . as such, he'll say what he thinks his comany needs to have said.


Bomber, Erik Buell is not an Elon Musk!  You know why Buell had to publicly state that drivel.

Erik tried and still tries REALLY hard not to bad mouth H-D.  We all know Erik wanted to build a proper sportbike and that H-D would always tie one hand behind his back or severely limit him or undermine his efforts.  Heís proven that with the 1125/1190RS/RX.  When unleashed, his team can build a competitive bike.  If you have read the test reports of the 1190RS in back to back comparisons, you will know that it is one of the best sportbikes out there, hampered only by its power when tested side by side against the S1000RR and 1199 Panigale.  If EBR also figured out how to make the 1190RS run smooth and clean and pass emissions, it will be right up on equal terms.  We know the handling and braking is there already.  Itís not as light as the RS but itís well below the weight of current front runners like the Aprilia RSV4.  I canít wait for the inevitable comparison tests!

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« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2013, 11:57:09 am »




Bomber, Erik Buell is not an Elon Musk!  You know why Buell had to publicly state that drivel.

Erik tried and still tries REALLY hard not to bad mouth H-D.  We all know Erik wanted to build a proper sportbike  . . . .


I am a huge Erik Buell fan . . . . my M2 one was of the best, most fun bikes I ever owned.

He said many things because he sold 51% of his company to another, so he was an employee. His choice, for good or ill.

I'm not bad wrapping the man, simply observing that he is, among other things, a pretty good jack-leg marketer, and his utterances should be viewed in the light that he is trying to sell his product.

That is not bad, nor dishonest. It simply is.
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« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2013, 01:08:15 pm »


I'm not bad wrapping the man, simply observing that he is, among other things, a pretty good jack-leg marketer, and his utterances should be viewed in the light that he is trying to sell his product.

That is not bad, nor dishonest. It simply is.


I knew you were not mocking him.

Even after they let his company go he was gracious (although he looked defeated).  What is the most sad, ironic, & maddening thing is that an American company is the one who undermined him repeatedly and tried to sink him!  You can't make that shit up!
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« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2013, 01:43:14 pm »

Anyone know where he is getting the engines for these new bikes?  

For the previous EBR bikes they needed a 1125 donor that was rebuilt as a new EBR bike. As far as I know, Rotax can't sell him new 1125 motors because H-D owns the design of that engine.  Using the old bike helped out because EBR didn't need to re-certify the engine/bike because it was already done as the 1125.

Is EBR buying up 1125 bikes or is this a new motor in these bikes?

If it is a new engine, I wonder if EBR needs to certify these bikes again?
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« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2013, 02:01:41 pm »

They are making them now in East Troy...... That is why the designation on the engine is called ET. (casting and milling I believe)
Here is an older video of them building one.

http://youtu.be/oQPKYnM3jfI
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« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2013, 09:29:41 pm »

Here's the word from the horse's mouth about the engines at the AIMExpo last week (engine description at about 1 minute):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdEiyRSfU48
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