Announcement: ST.N now part of Motorcycle.com family

[Max Wedge]

First off I would like to say thank you Neal. This has been a great place to meet friends, exchange ideas, get help, and learn. It is a valuable resource. It has done well under your skipper-ship.

Next, I would like to day I am truly saddened. I know the new owner says it will be the same, but I have yet to see one forum stay the same when it goes commercial, if it stays at all (R.I.P Michigan Jeepers).
What I hope is that this site won't become on of forums where every time the word 'car' appears and you mouse goes over it an ad for 'looking for cars?' appears. Or gets merged into some other motorcycle website/forum run by people  who don't know anything about the subject and if you mention a website that is not under the corporate umbrella it gets removed.

Lastly, I hope the people who make this site what it is remain (or let us know where they are going   )

[Sport-Touring]

[Cobalt]

Because I don't do motorcycle.com stuff.  I don't want to see something that I have been a part of since almost the start to do what it will do....become commercialized.

Ok. There are several statements here, and if you're amenable, I'd like to have a follow-up discussion. If you're not, then scroll on by... I'm not having any arguments, here.

I have reasons to discuss this, and let me clear... not one of those reasons involves, in any way whatsoever, defending, supporting or promoting Motorcycle.Com or Vertical Scope. None. We clear on that? Ok, to quote the new Khan... Shall we begin?

Because I don't do motorcycle.com stuff.

Ok, why? And before we go any further, if the answer is simply your second statement ( I don't want to see something that I have been a part of since almost the start to do what it will do....become commercialized. ), then we're done with this point and we can move on to that statement in a moment. If not... let me ask you this: Have they damaged you, personally or professionally in any way? Have they damaged your reputation, personally or professionally, in any way? Have they cost you any undue money, personally or professionally in any way?

If the answer to any all of those is "no", then that closes the point. That, then, simply becomes a matter of taste and opinion, and that's a viable a reason as any.

Now then... on to the heart of the matter...

I don't want to see something that I have been a part of since almost the start to do what it will do....become commercialized.

Here's where I want to have a real discussion. I am involved in and highly invested in a "free for the users" info-tainment venture ( The Pace Motorcycle Podcast, LLC ). We do the show as a means of entertainment and hopefully bits of information now and then. I'm four years into this venture and in that time we have run contests, we have advertised, we have bought equipment and we have devoted our time, money and resources to providing the show. We have good production quality and sound, and that equipment came out of my pocket. We have *** edit *** a lot of ***/edit*** (we're going to keep those numbers to ourselves a while longer and the reasons why should be obvious) downloads each week and that number grows continuously. The bandwidth and hosting bills for those gigabytes upon gigabytes come directly from my pocket. The products we review are 50/50 purchased and donated by vendors. The donations come with certain implicit and explicit advertising hours and dollars attached. The purchases come out of my pocket - sometimes I keep and use the products, sometimes I give them away or sell them at a drastic discount... without ever once being explicitly compensated for the advertising time. A leather jacket is WAY cheaper than, say, a year of advertising.  

The point being, here, is that every free product comes with certain "gotchas" attached, implicitly or explicitly.

What if, after four years of doing the show, The Pace Motorcycle Podcast LLC wants to begin actively seeking advertisers for interstitial audio ads similar to... oh... 99.9% of every other net-casted enter/info-tainment show available by what is colloquially referred to as "podcasting" (a term I have actually grown to hate).

Will I lose all my listeners if I add one or two ads per show? If I will, then frankly I'd rather close the doors right now and never produce another hour of the show. Should I beg listeners for money? Or worse, turn it into a fee-for-listening service? Those both feel very tacky to me. I'm not a big believer in the notion of giving people something for free then charging for that product later.

Yes, ads *CAN* become burdensome, and yes, they *CAN* be intrusive and annoying, but you, as the user, have control over that.

How?
* For websites, you can install an ad blocker.
* For audio or video productions, you have a fast forward button.
But at what cost? If the advertisers see no return on their dollar, they will pull advertising and next thing you know... the site/show goes away, or gets sold to a more commercially viable venture and the (previous) owner sits with a few extra bucks in his pocket and WAY less headache every day. Your product is then overrun with whatever-it-takes advertising and subscription offers to continue using the product, you go away, and the product dies slowly on the vine, lamented by the people who sit around and say "I miss [that product]".

Nothing free is forever-sustainable.

I guess what I'm getting at here is, if you're not paying for the service, then YOU are the currency. Click an ad every now and then. Buy something - even if trite - from one of the links. Advertising, as a thing, isn't evil.. We've got 60 years of television thanks to advertising. It's a tool and when wielded with discretion can build a world and when handled with ill intent can destroy that world.

To sum up: Stick around, give it a chance. If you find, later, it's not for you, then so be it.

And a note... for those complaining about the weird Russian Bride ads or "Meet Hot Singles" ads that popped up and might have gotten you in trouble at work (my answer there should be obvious ), the ads are context and keyword aware. They're delivered to you by things you've got cached or things you see on this site. The whole Shah thing is enough context fodder to get XXX and R-Rated ads put up all day long if the advertisers had them in the rotation.

Again, you, the user, have the power to control this experience.

[scottzilla]

words.  lots of words.

[Cobalt]

words.  lots of words.

They're good for you, Scott. I promise.

[Scratch33]

Knew this was going to happen eventually; a matter of 'not if but when'.  OTOH it's like going to your longtime favorite neighborhood coffee shop and finding a "Starbucks" sign over the door.  

I'll join in thanking you, Neal, for creating and fostering this board.  I understand business is business.

[stnadmin]

So, will STN simply be merged into these forums with all of the past threads moved?

http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/


Will we keep our same user names and passwords or will we need to re-register?


For post ho members, will our post count be reset?


Finally, what will happen to the images uploaded to the member's Photo Gallery?



Thanks.  

Everything would stay as is. You wound not need to re-register. Post counts would not be changed.

Dwayn

[stnadmin]

So Dwayn, tell us a little about yourself.   What motorcycles do you own/have you owned?  What's your riding experience?  Where have you ridden?

I have been interested in many motorcycles in the past but have not pulled the trigger on any of them . Therefore I do not ride.

Dwayn

[stnadmin]

When will the rates below be implemented?  (Seems to be on all other VS sites...which now own S-T.n)

Not that it matters, I donated to STN in the past and would probably pay if it gets me out of any ads....

This is different software. Every site is different. This is not on all of our sites and the ones it is on it varies.

This would not be here. I am not sure right now if this is something that would be added down the road.

Dwayn

[stnadmin]

I'll try to answer these, and if I'm wrong just correct me Dwayn.

The forum will not merge.  ST.N will remain ST.N

Thus same user names, same post counts, images in the Photo Gallery remain.  Etc.

You are correct Neal.

[Cobalt]

I have been interested in many motorcycles in the past but have not pulled the trigger on any of them . Therefore I do not ride.

Dwayn

Just keep in mind that this a site full of some of the most passionate enthusiasts you'll ever meet. Tread lightly amongst the beasts.

[motormike]

Just keep in mind that this a site full of some of the most passionate cat and Moto Guzzi enthusiasts you'll ever meet. Tread lightly amongst the beasts.

Fixed.

[Max Wedge]

To sum up: Stick around, give it a chance. If you find, later, it's not for you, then so be it.

Again, you, the user, have the power to control this experience.

 I will stick around, but this is the feeling I get:



All new owner/admins say these things above, and then they have reasons why they can't stick to them (which are mostly legit, it is business) and the whole forum that they spent all this cash on becomes not what they bought, but something else. Some leave, some new come in, sometimes it is a new successful thing, sometimes it just goes away. I will watch what happens, and hope I am wrong.

Question for the new stnadmin:
What will happen to posts that link to a thread on the FJRforum or ADVrider?
If I post that the seat from foamass.com is better than the advertiser buttbuddy.com will my post be nuked?

[R Doug]

Everything would stay as is. You wound not need to re-register. Post counts would not be changed.

Dwayn

Thanks for the follow up.  

[Stripes]

This thread is starting to make me feel depressed.    maybe it's starting to sink in.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Question for the new stnadmin:
What will happen to posts that link to a thread on the FJRforum or ADVrider?
If I post that the seat from foamass.com is better than the advertiser buttbuddy.com will my post be nuked?

 

[MisterSmooth]

All new owner/admins say these things above, and then they have reasons why they can't stick to them (which are mostly legit, it is business) and the whole forum that they spent all this cash on becomes not what they bought, but something else.  Some leave, some new come in, sometimes it is a new successful thing, sometimes it just goes away.  I will watch what happens, and hope I am wrong.

I too sincerely hope that you are wrong, Max.   But I agree with you.  Unfortunately, that is the cycle of business life.   It's one of those truisms, similar to "Name one merger that didn't result in mass layoffs and higher prices."  

And yet--after the inevitable happens and STN becomes a hollow shell--some maverick will crank up a new site called, say, Sport Touring Farkled Up to fill the void.  The site will be privately owned and attract a swarm of members.  It will be vital and crackle with energy.  Friendships will be made across long distances.  Mrs. DantesDame will post Ride Reports from her new home in Australia or Bali or some such.  Happiness will spread throughout the motorbiking community.

Then we can all STFU until that site is sold to Amazon.

And the cycle begins again.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I too sincerely hope that you are wrong, Max.   But I agree with you.  Unfortunately, that is the cycle of business life.   It's one of those truisms, similar to "Name one merger that didn't result in mass layoffs and higher prices."  

And yet--after the inevitable happens and STN becomes a hollow shell--some maverick will crank up a new site called, say, Sport Touring Farkled Up to fill the void.  The site will be privately owned and attract a swarm of members.  It will be vital and crackle with energy.  Friendships will be made across long distances.  Mrs. DantesDame will post Ride Reports from her new home in Australia or Bali or some such.  Happiness will spread throughout the motorbiking community.

Then we can all STFU until that site is sold to Amazon.

And the cycle begins again.

 

[DJ_Fission]

Thank you for creating this site, and good luck in the other interests you mentioned.

[bubba zanetti]

I too sincerely hope that you are wrong, Max.   But I agree with you.  Unfortunately, that is the cycle of business life.   It's one of those truisms, similar to "Name one merger that didn't result in mass layoffs and higher prices."  

And yet--after the inevitable happens and STN becomes a hollow shell--some maverick will crank up a new site called, say, Sport Touring Farkled Up to fill the void.  The site will be privately owned and attract a swarm of members.  It will be vital and crackle with energy.  Friendships will be made across long distances.  Mrs. DantesDame will post Ride Reports from her new home in Australia or Bali or some such.  Happiness will spread throughout the motorbiking community.

Then we can all STFU until that site is sold to Amazon.

And the cycle begins again.

... amazing what Google finds  

[Mr.Black]

This thread needs a goat.