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Topic: Total Control or Corner Spin  (Read 9262 times)

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« on: April 17, 2014, 08:58:50 pm »

I want to take another class.  My last one was a beginner MSF class year before last.  I took it after not riding a lot between getting my license in class about five years before.  The bike I had then was bigger than my confidence level, 750 Shadow ACE, and the chrome exceeded my confidence level too.  

My curves have improved, but need more work.  I look forward to taking my PC800 to work, and have even ventured out on the ST1300, by myself.  And plan to ride that some to work also.  I've even taken my son with me once. That wasn't so good....I dropped him while getting ready to put the bike in the garage.  The ride included, curves, odd stops, hills, and gravel.

Total Control looks good because the video shows you someone holding the bike while you lean it.  And they the website says they work on the psychological aspects or riding.

Corner Spin looks good because it's mini bikes, easier to pick up if when dropped.


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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 09:03:31 pm »

Go to Total Control this year and Corner Spin next year  Bigok
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 09:24:55 pm »

Both are great schools.  You would benefit from either.

I've taken both Total Control and Corner Spin.  I've posted this comment before, but it's worth saying again.  Cornerspin is THE SINGLE BEST school I have ever taken.  (other training:  Skip Barb Superbike School, Reg Pridmore, Cornerspeed, one-on-one session with Doug Polen, numerous track days with class time).  My ability to control a bike and have more confidence not to panic when things don't go as planned increased 10 fold after taking the Cornerspin weekend school.


That said, I believe you would benefit from taking Total Control first, get some miles under the seat, then go take Cornerspin.

No matter which one you go with, have fun and report back!

« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 09:28:03 pm by R Doug » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2014, 06:17:25 am »

If it comes down to either/or and not both, just pick one. Total Control is a fantastic intermediate class that will give you lots of skills and critical thinking to carry forward.

Bottom line, the most useless education is the education you never took.
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 06:19:27 am »

PS... I took total control twice, a year apart. One on a CBR. One on a Street Glide. Learned something both times and continue using those skills and ways of thinking today.
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2014, 10:33:22 am »

I did total control early in a year and then Reg Pridmore's Class at VIR later in the summer.  Those two really changed my riding, and gave me things to work toward that I'm still working on.

Can't recommend either enough.
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 12:09:49 pm »

Interesting. I hadn't heard of Cornerspin before. At the Freddie Spencer 3-day school we did a half-day on XR100s with street tires in the mud/dirt.  Crazy

pretty much all it taught me was that I suck.  
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 02:49:42 pm »

Look into the Advanced Riders Course. I took Total Control, and though it was quite the confidence booster, I discovered that the ARC was MUCH more applicable to street riding. Total Control teaches you how to ride around a 40' circle - two directions. Total Control teaches more track-applicable techniques.

The ARC teaches higher speed swerving, higher speed stopping, DECREASING RADIUS turns, and is overall geared toward personal choices in riding. It is a one day course.

Check out Central Virginia Community College. They've got the ARC listed there.
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2014, 04:34:00 pm »

What makes you uncomfortable on the bike? What do you wish you felt more comfortable doing on a bike? Every class has a different vibe and works on different though overlapping skill sets.

Cornerspin in particular is all about advanced bike control and body position. It's taught in a low traction environment on small bikes which lessens the fear and danger involved in pushing a bike past it's traction limits and ones ability to control it. Everyone I know who has taken it raves about it. It sounds like you're not trying to learn how to drift a bike through a turn or steer with the rear tire, at least for now so I'd recommend looking at a street rider oriented class first.  
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2014, 05:06:59 pm »




Cornerspin in particular is all about advanced bike control and body position. It's taught in a low traction environment on small bikes

Right... but is body position for the dirt track the same as body position for street riding? From what I understand it isn't. Street you want your COM to the inside of the corner, while dirt you want the bike down and you up on top of it, elbow out, etc.

I imagine that it helps you manage traction, though. I'd be interested to learn more about it.
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2014, 06:13:53 pm »

I have not been to a connerspeed course, so I can't comment in it.  I have done Total Control and for me, it was the most valuable and usuable day of riding instruction I have ever done.  Wish I had done it years ago.  It truly was an eye opener in many ways.  I can't reccomend it highly enough.
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2014, 06:48:40 pm »



Right... but is body position for the dirt track the same as body position for street riding? From what I understand it isn't. Street you want your COM to the inside of the corner, while dirt you want the bike down and you up on top of it, elbow out, etc.

I imagine that it helps you manage traction, though. I'd be interested to learn more about it.


One of the basic foundations of Cornerspin is that all bikes react relatively the same (same principle of Colin Edwards' Boot Camp class).  On ANY bike, you would counterweight on slow speed corners (parking lot low speeds or offroad).  You also counterweight a street bike (not as dramatically as on a dirt bike) on loss of traction situations.  While I leaned some neat tricks which helped my off road riding, Cornerspin's moto is "Road Racing on the Dirt." Trust me, it's not a dirt bike class.  

It was funny for me. After the first day, I thought, "cool, I'm leaning what it's like to control a bike when it's on the verge of crashing.  Wow am I wore out.  It's time for bed."

Then on the next day around 1/3 of the way though, the lightbulb went off during an advance drill.  "Holy shit, so this is how you control a bike!!!!"  The owner of Cornerspin, Aaron Stevenson, said the class is designed that way.  Day one is to make you rethink everything.  Day two is when nearly each person taking the class has their epiphany.  

I learned SO many things.  For example, I now totally "get" why I should NOT let off the throttle 100% when going into a downhill sharp corner.  I found out how "maintenance throttle" helps the bike corner better.  This is where I also learned that most of the time during cornering, your input is from your thighs and core, and not your hands.  Countersteering has its place, but it's not the main method for steering a bike.  It may initiate, but man-handling the bars mid corner will upset the bike.  

Don't believe me on any of this?  Go take the class.  

While they cater to all types of riders, I can tell you the benefits of the Cornerspin for ding few track days really showed me what I learned. My ability on the track was night and day better.  Since the track takes rider's to 100% of their ability, it's much easier to see the benefits sooner.  But, I can still see the benefits when street riding.

I still have some of my notes from the class.  Here are some of the things Aaron covers:

1,1,1 Brake,turn, accelerate

Wild Wide in late and deep

Patience

Go slow in the slow turns, fast in the fast ones

Listen to the whispers

Stay neutral

Give control to gain control  

Properly riding a motorcycle on twisties and on the track is like riding a unicycle.  You only focus on control via one wheel at a time.

On the brakes (front wheel control) or on the gas (rear wheel control). If you are coasting you have no control.

When using the gas or brake (even engine braking), you're a pilot.  If you're coasting, you're a passenger.  


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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 06:49:53 pm »



Right... but is body position for the dirt track the same as body position for street riding? From what I understand it isn't. Street you want your COM to the inside of the corner, while dirt you want the bike down and you up on top of it, elbow out, etc.

I imagine that it helps you manage traction, though. I'd be interested to learn more about it.


Bingo. The body position is different, however knowing that you can maintain control when the wheels are sliding rather than freezing up in fear transfers over to asphalt fairly well. It's a neat skill-set to develop and builds confidence in the rider that they are in charge, not the bike. it's another tool in the bag of survival tricks.

As to what school a rider will get the most out of I still maintain that depends on where they are at in their riding and what is getting in the way of them enjoying it more.

Most common obstacles in no particular order, real or imagined, of which one or more affects almost every rider to one degree or another. All one has to do is decide what issues to work on and then work on them, or if desired sign up for a class that addresses them the best.   Bigok

Traction
Bike weight
Horsepower
Balance/leaning
Turning
Braking
Speed

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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2014, 07:07:41 pm »

Do you want to improve your skills/confidence on the street or on the track?

I've taken both Total Control and the Advanced Riders Course (ARC). If you want to improve skills and confidence on the street, look at the ARC. I noticed a difference on my way home from the ARC. Better cornering. More effective braking. Better body position in everything.

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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2015, 02:27:41 pm »

I've not taken Corner Spin, but I've taken Total Control twice and the ARC.  I had six years' experience when I took the ARC, and if it had been available, I would have liked to take it before Total Control.

In this area, there's also an On Street course developed by an English gentleman, where you wear earphones in your helmet, ride in the street, and obtain feedback from an instructor.  It was great for learning accident avoidance techniques and feedback about your riding, but not handling skills as much.  

Another school has a course on a local racetrack which is all about cornering at real-world speeds.  Besides the track's corners, they set up others on the straightaways with cones, and have on-bike coaches provide feedback.  There's also photographers in the major corners.  During the lunch break, a slideshow of riders, showing all our flaws.  I've taken it three times, want to do so again, and have Grant take it.
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