BMW Dealers Told to Stop Selling RT's

[Silverbird]

That would suck to be an honest dealer wanting to sell such a hot bike right now too.

[Sport-Touring]

[Vfourfan]

Well BMW in the end is responsible for quality control.

You didn't see Boeing blame their battery supplier when they grounded 787's recently.

As a manufacturer, you are the only one responsible for putting a finished product out the door. Ask GM.

Bingo.
I have owned three BMWs.
And I will never own another.  My GS's final drive crapped the bed and too many of my friends' Beemers have had serious issues.
When I pay that kind of money (which I can no longer afford), I want a bike that doesn't die on me 1,854 miles from home.
They need to concentrate less on Gee Whiz goodies and more on quality control.

[Silverbird]

Bingo.
I have owned three BMWs.
And I will never own another.  My GS's final drive crapped the bed and too many of my friends' Beemers have had serious issues.
When I pay that kind of money (which I can no longer afford), I want a bike that doesn't die on me 1,854 miles from home.
They need to concentrate less on Gee Whiz goodies and more on quality control.

+1000.   What's the point of owning ANY touring bike if you don't have the piece of mind it won't let you down becuase of some rediculous failure.   No thanks and they will cost a FORTUNE to fix after the warranty.  

[mellow_gold]

Neither of which are true. The issue isn't with BMW's design or QC. The manufacturing of the rear suspension is contracted to a small, high end third party manufacturer who made the mistakes in production and QC and then delivered 'certified' goods under contract. This is costing BMW 10's of millions of $'s just in customer settlements and replacement of the parts... it's a really unfortunate deal for BMW and new RT owners alike.

Cognitive dissonance  

[M.Brane]

They need to concentrate less on Gee Whiz goodies and more on quality control.

 Obviously you don't understand modern engineers, and marketing.

[naustin]

What's the point of owning ANY touring bike if you don't have the piece of mind it won't let you down becuase of some rediculous failure.

This is exactly why I bought the ST1300 and have never regretted it for 1 minute!!

[sprint_st]

I think there are two reasons why BMW gets blasted.  For one, BMW is run by arrogant bastards that believe if engineer elves in the black forest built it, it HAS TO BE perfect.  It something breaks it HAS TO BE operator error.  The second thing is that for the price you should expect it to built better.

My last bike was a 2011 1200GS.  I had no problems and it was without a doubt the best bike I ever owned.  If I experienced some of the FD failures that many experienced, I'd be pissed at BMW but I still would love the bike "when running."   Over the years I have watched Honda step up to the plate and go above and beyond to fix problems.  I have also watch Triumph try to hide failures with fuel quick disconnects.  Some companies are just better than others.

[Silverbird]

 Obviously you don't understand modern engineers, and marketing.

There's a time and place for all this new tech but if it's going to strand someone thousands of miles from home you don't understand the serenity of touring.

[st ryder]

 Obviously you don't understand modern engineers, and marketing.

Neither does this, "less is more" rider. But not that I don't undertsand the driving forces behind modern engineering or marketing, but that I can't believe all the the drones and mindless sheep who think more is better, and pay through the nose, not only for the entry price, but for the upkeep of all that electronic, extraneous, nonsense.  

If modern engneering and marketing "say" one thing about "modern" motorcyclists, it's "there's a sucker born every minute", and BMW knows that best.  

Time for the whole industry to get back to basics, not just BMW.  This isn't exactly BMW's first recall. In fact, things seem to be getting worse, not better for them in that department. A company that doesn't learn from its mistakes, is not one that I would trust.  

Just build a great bike with no abs, tc, engine mapping, electronic suspesnion, remote security systems, cruise control etc and so on, and let the rider, ride it and maintain it. Oh wait. No huge profits in that is there? No bragging rights for the conspicuous consumption buyer is there.  

[miles]

And no buyers. Honestly, I won't buy another bike that doesn't have ABS and TC. Electronically adjustable suspension is desirable, but not a deal breaker if the bike I'm interested in doesn't have it.

[M.Brane]

And no buyers. Honestly, I won't buy another bike that doesn't have ABS and TC. Electronically adjustable suspension is desirable, but not a deal breaker if the bike I'm interested in doesn't have it.

 When you ride a bike with 200 RWHP TC is not an option it's a necessity.

[Rattlehead]

Neither does this, "less is more" rider. But not that I don't undertsand the driving forces behind modern engineering or marketing, but that I can't believe all the the drones and mindless sheep who think more is better, and pay through the nose, not only for the entry price, but for the upkeep of all that electronic, extraneous, nonsense.  

If modern engneering and marketing "say" one thing about "modern" motorcyclists, it's "there's a sucker born every minute", and BMW knows that best.  

Time for the whole industry to get back to basics, not just BMW.  This isn't exactly BMW's first recall. In fact, things seem to be getting worse, not better for them in that department. A company that doesn't learn from its mistakes, is not one that I would trust.  

Just build a great bike with no abs, tc, engine mapping, electronic suspesnion, remote security systems, cruise control etc and so on, and let the rider, ride it and maintain it. Oh wait. No huge profits in that is there? No bragging rights for the conspicuous consumption buyer is there.  

QFT!  
Everything you spelled out is EXACTLY why 2/3's of new bikes don't interest me at all and pretty much 100% of new cars/trucks hold ZERO appeal for me. It's all just 'tech for the sake of tech'. None of it adds any significant enjoyment to the ride for me and it WILL cause an unimaginable headache later on when it DOES break.
I'm only 34 also so it's not like I'm some old fart reminiscing about "the good old days". I abosolutely hate the current "everything has to be "high tech" mindset of designers (and a LARGE number of consumers).

[Burners]

 When you ride a bike with 200 RWHP TC is not an option it's a necessity.

This is not completely true...TC could help in some circumstances, but it's not a necessity. Maybe it would help rear tires last longer?  

[st ryder]

 When you riders who have no business buying a 200 RWHP other than they can because their wallet is fat TC is not an option it's a necessity.

Fixed it for you.  

Why do you think manufacturers add the extraneous electronic nonsense? So riders with little experience, who have the need to own the biggest and the best, and who have the dosh, can buy hyper bikes, with, umm, "safety" equipment, so they won't kill themselves; hence the proliferation of hyper RR bikes and bigger profits for the manufacturers and dealers.  

Years ago, litre RR bikes were the rarified place where only experts dared tread, now, any idiot can ride one, in fact, read up on them and what do most reviewers first say, "This is an easy bike to go fast on", so any statement that may in the past been made when litre RR bikes had no such "aides" about the quality of the rider, i.e.  "expert" has been reduced to "Money, ego, no special skills."  

I have more respect and desire for the so-called "retro" bikes that are being made to look like older ones, that have a minimum amount of aides, if any, than disposable hyper RR bikes. To me that says the rider has divorced himself from the insanity of the flock, and is going his own way.  

  

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

In 3.5K, I've yet to use the ABS, but I'm glad it's there. My version of TC is riding The Pace -- "problem" solved.

As for breakdowns - I like the fact that I can get going again with a couple of wrenches, a screw driver, and some bailing wire. No need for a diagnostic computer and a team of nerds to analyze the data it spits out.

I like not having any breakdowns at all.

[miles]

Fixed it for you.  

Why do you think manufacturers add the extraneous electronic nonsense? So riders with little experience, who have the need to own the biggest and the best, and who have the dosh, can buy hyper bikes, with, umm, "safety" equipment, so they won't kill themselves; hence the proliferation of hyper RR bikes and bigger profits for the manufacturers and dealers.  

A few years ago I was at a track day on my race-prepped 208rwhp (seriously- that's what it dynoed at) BMW S1000RR and saw this young lady riding in the beginner group.  She also had an S1000RR, and at first my reaction was along the lines of "WTF?  What's a beginning level track day rider doing with a bike like that?"

Then I talked to her, and it made sense.  With the ABS and the TC she could explore her limits (and the bike's) with much greater safety than she ever could on a bike that didn't have those features.  Also, she put it in "Rain" mode which dramatically softens the power delivery and ups the TC levels quite a bit, so in reality it was far safer for her than, say, an SV650 would have been.

As the day progressed and she felt more confident she moved to "Sport" mode, which gave her greater throttle response and less intrusive ABS and TC- again, not something another bike would have allowed her to do.

The net result is that the electronic nannies were there when she wanted and needed them, but when she moved past that point the bike let her move her boundaries to a higher level.

Who wants a bike that breathes fire and terrorizes villages as you pass?  Well, I do, sometimes.  Sometimes, though, I don't.  Having a bike that can fulfill both roles is a lovely thing.  

[GRN]

That would suck to be an honest dealer wanting to sell such a hot bike right now too.

Yes, it does... but honestly the recall isn't our limitation. I have 6 presold in the pipeline to deliver over the next 2 months, and all of those folks are OK with the possibility of a delay. Allocation is still our biggest limitation, I could still sell 4-6 more in this model year if I could get my hands on them.

[Windblown]

In 3.5K, I've yet to use the ABS, but I'm glad it's there. My version of TC is riding The Pace -- "problem" solved.


I like not having any breakdowns at all.

Agreed. I've been lucky. I've had to work on a few other bikes during an occasional group ride but never had to turn a wrench on one of mine outside of the garage.  

The KTM 990 is wonkiest bike I own, also the newest. It's never left me stranded and it's one heck of a fun bike but it does have gremlins, so I feel BMW owners pain when they talk about weirded out gas gauges, tire pressure monitors, FDs, suspension systems, brakes, etc. Like them, I accept the KTM for what it is and I still own it because I like everything else about it.  

If I were to need to get across country on a bike currently in the garage with as little risk of a breakdown as possible along the way I'd jump on my 2003 Yamaha FZ1.  If I still had the '05 FJR1300 w/ABS it would probably be my go-to bike for the job but it bored me so it's gone.

It's not hi-tech that bothers me so much as it is poorly tested, needlessly complex, or poorly implemented tech that bothers me.

[Bruce Bogtrotter]

Having a bike that can fulfill both roles is a lovely thing.  

Yeahbut, in the context of sport touring, additional complexity adds to the likelihood of breakdown.

Maybe the BMW's TC will never be a source of trouble ...

[miles]

Yeahbut, in the context of sport touring, additional complexity adds to the likelihood of breakdown.

Maybe the BMW's TC will never be a source of trouble ...

My Nissan Altima hybrid has over 200K miles on the clock and it's been absolutely perfect- and that's a very complex car.  My old VWs were very simple, yet broke down all the time.
Which would I trust to drive across the country tomorrow?