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Topic: I am seriously considering trading in my Yamaha FZ-09 on a Tiger 800 XC ABS  (Read 28628 times)

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« on: July 31, 2014, 11:21:40 pm »

So either talk me into or out of it.

I've got about 3k in mods in the FZ. The local Triumph dealer has a XC demo. He's computing a delta for me.

I love the FZ. But it is really hard to drive smoothly. Yes, I had the ECU reflashed which helped. But while it's fast it's no longer enjoyable for me. I would much rather have a lightweight bike which could go anywhere comfortably and would be smooth.

I wouldn't want a BMW. There are no dealers near me. The Versys and V Strom look nice, but the Trumpet seems better.

Am I crazy and is there something bad I would be setting myself up for? Or is this a good bike?
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2014, 05:21:24 am »




I love the FZ. ..But while it's fast it's no longer enjoyable for me. I would much rather have a lightweight bike which could go anywhere comfortably and would be smooth...





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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2014, 07:49:06 am »




Love is irrational


DO IT!  You won't regret it.

My friend and riding buddy has one and he absolutely loves it.



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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2014, 08:20:12 am »

Do you plan on riding poorly maintained dirt roads with it? If not, the 21" front wheel may not be the best choice for you. Personally, I don't like a 21" front wheel for carving twisties, but a 19" is OK. I would do an extended test ride and form your own opinion on the 21" front. I demo'd a regular Tiger 800 and it was a very nice bike.
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 11:34:56 am »


Do you plan on riding poorly maintained dirt roads with it? If not, the 21" front wheel may not be the best choice for you. Personally, I don't like a 21" front wheel for carving twisties, but a 19" is OK. I would do an extended test ride and form your own opinion on the 21" front. I demo'd a regular Tiger 800 and it was a very nice bike.


I rented a regular one a couple of years ago to do the Slimey Crud Run.  Loved everything about it except one of my foot got a little hot.  Can't remember which one.  Don't know if it be a deal breaker.  Just enough torque everywhere and love the riding position.
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2014, 02:35:25 pm »

If the fueling is the only thing that bothers you about the FZ, spend a few bucks and get a Power Commander installed and get the bike dyno tuned.

It'll cure thoe fueling problems and save the baby from being thrown out with the bathwater.
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2014, 02:58:24 pm »

I guess it really comes down to how much disposable income you have.  You've already spent a significant amount in modifications.  And we know that $$ in does not equate to $$ out when selling.  You pretty much just give away your mods when selling.  From just reading the magazine Adventure comparison tests, the Triumph pretty much comes out on the bottom every time.  The KTM and BMW are consistently on the top.  However, I don't doubt that the Triumph is a good bike.  
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2014, 04:24:20 pm »

Oh no, your stock price is going down with me.  Headscratch Brownie points quickly diminishing.  Sad

Seriously, two different bikes for sure. If the sport factor, HP loss and $ out the window doesn't bother you then why not? I'd be a bit worried about getting a demo though.
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2014, 06:16:26 pm »

Do you plan on riding poorly maintained dirt roads with it? If not, the 21" front wheel may not be the best choice for you. Personally, I don't like a 21" front wheel for carving twisties, but a 19" is OK. I would do an extended test ride and form your own opinion on the 21" front. I demo'd a regular Tiger 800 and it was a very nice bike.
Ditto. Loved the non-XC I tested and it fit me perfectly. I'm planning to replace the feejer next year and this is currently at the top of my list.
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2014, 10:00:37 pm »

The media has little love for Triumph.  As a Trophy owner, I don't understand why.  Love is irrational, ride what makes you smile.
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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 01:12:29 pm »

I say don't do it unless you can get your money out of the FZ-09.  You've thrown lots of money at it...can you not fix it? Maybe change the gearing so it isn't so frenetic? Taller gearing may help make it more of a tourer...

I'd at least try the gearing change before dumping it for a Tiger, although I'm sure you'll be happy regardless.  Good problems to have.

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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2014, 01:30:58 pm »


I say don't do it unless you can get your money out of the FZ-09.  You've thrown lots of money at it...can you not fix it? Maybe change the gearing so it isn't so frenetic? Taller gearing may help make it more of a tourer...

I'd at least try the gearing change before dumping it for a Tiger, although I'm sure you'll be happy regardless.  Good problems to have.

- Dan


I am waiting back for trade in quote from the dealer. It's taken him a awhile so I assume it will not be in my favor. I'm not going to throw money away. I might look into a throttle tamer. As it is I can lift the front wheel with a quick 1/4" turn of the throttle. As a young man I would have enjoyed this. Now it is as annoying as having a high-strung dog jumping around in the back seat of your car.
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2014, 03:03:36 pm »




I am waiting back for trade in quote from the dealer. It's taken him a awhile so I assume it will not be in my favor. I'm not going to throw money away.


Used market is soft and thick, and most dealers have exceeded their threshold for used inventory this season. At one point this season we were at 51 used units (company record, by many), still closer to that than we prefer, currently. Trade offers have been thin, especially for off brand units; consignments have been closed to all but deploying military with BMW models.

If you want to trade, start stretching - your ankles aren't that far away!  Lol
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2014, 04:02:08 pm »




Used market is soft and thick, and most dealers have exceeded their threshold for used inventory this season. At one point this season we were at 51 used units (company record, by many), still closer to that than we prefer, currently. Trade offers have been thin, especially for off brand units; consignments have been closed to all but deploying military with BMW models.

If you want to trade, start stretching - your ankles aren't that far away!  Lol


eBay.

There is someone out in the ethereal vapor of the interweb that is looking for *exactly* a bike like I have to offer. Right now I am thinking of just buying the Tiger and selling the FZ myself. Or I could just keep all three. Cash is king and I can be patient.
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2014, 01:24:31 pm »

Update:

There is a 99.997% chance I will be buying the Tiger tonight. No trade on the FZ-09. As expected, he couldn't offer what I wanted. However several other dealers contacted him with People wanting the Yamaha. He will forward the names to me.

All is good. Expect pictures soon.
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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2014, 06:57:25 pm »

I am now the owner of a 2014 Triumph Tiger 800 XC ABS!
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« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2014, 07:03:08 pm »


I am now the owner of a 2014 Triumph Tiger 800 XC ABS!


You know that old cliche about pictures and stuff, right?  Bigok
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2014, 07:14:05 pm »




You know that old cliche about pictures and stuff, right?  Bigok


I pick it up on Saturday. There are some free extras they will be installing: heated grips, skid plate, crash bars and a adjustable touring screen.

As soon as it gets home I will post pics!
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2014, 07:22:02 pm »

Congratulations on the bike! Comparo coming?
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2014, 08:15:03 pm »

I am now the owner of a 2014 Triumph Tiger 800 XC ABS!
Congrats! Looking forward to the reviews.
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« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2014, 11:22:40 am »




I pick it up on Saturday. There are some free extras they will be installing: heated grips, skid plate, crash bars and a adjustable touring screen.

As soon as it gets home I will post pics!
I trust it will be a long, bonding ride home.
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« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2014, 12:14:52 pm »


I've got about 3k in mods in the FZ. The local Triumph dealer has a XC demo. He's computing a delta for me.

I love the FZ. But it is really hard to drive smoothly.

What mods do you have on the FZ 9?
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« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2014, 01:12:53 pm »



What mods do you have on the FZ 9?


Just a few goodies:

Michelin Pilot Power 3's
Full Trackside Suspension and Engineering rework of my suspension
- Penske 8983 Shock with remote
- GP Suspension revalve piston kit
- GP Suspension 90 KG fork springs
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Yamaha Mesh Vent Covers
T-Rex Racing Engine Guards, Sliders, Axle Sliders
EVO Tech Radiator Guard
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« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2014, 01:33:53 pm »

Very nice.  I had considered picking up an FZ9 and doing something similar.

I'd ask how much, but my current stable of 3 bikes needs to get down to 2.

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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2014, 01:41:15 pm »


Very nice.  I had considered picking up an FZ9 and doing something similar.

I'd ask how much, but my current stable of 3 bikes needs to get down to 2.




A fair price. $8500 firm.
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« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2014, 12:06:32 am »




A fair price. $8500 firm.


Fair indeed, nice kit... would be all over it if I were looking for that kind of ride... I too am in the 3 needs to be 2 camp at the moment.
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2014, 11:46:23 am »

I still think lowering the gears in on the FZ-09 would solve some of the problem, unless it's inherent in the short wheel base.

Regardless, good luck with the new bike, looking forward to hearing about it!
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« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2014, 12:43:00 pm »


Just a few goodies:

Michelin Pilot Power 3's
Full Trackside Suspension and Engineering rework of my suspension
- Penske 8983 Shock with remote
- GP Suspension revalve piston kit
- GP Suspension 90 KG fork springs
Spiegler SS Brake Lines
Ermax 25 CM flyscreen
Protaper EVO Bar
Gold Mad Hornets Shorty Levers
Gold Bar Ends
Rizoma grips
Ram Mount Bolt
Progrip Tank Pad
Techspec tank gripper
Seat Concepts Seat
Yamaha Mesh Vent Covers
T-Rex Racing Engine Guards, Sliders, Axle Sliders
EVO Tech Radiator Guard
EVO Tech Tail Tidy/Tail Light
Smart Brake Light Modulator - Vizi-tec SupaBrake2
ECU Reflash - Stoltec Moto

Wow... not trying to rub salt in your wounds, but all those mods and you didn't fix the fueling?!  I test rode the FZ09 earlier this year, and the fueling would have been the very first thing I'd fix.

After so many bikes and so many mods, I've learned it is best NOT to buy into any bike with identifiable faults and expect to aftermarket them into submission.  Same goes for trying to mod a bike into what it is not.

The FZ-09 is a great bike and best enjoyed for what it is.

BTW, congrats on one of Hinkley's finest.  Cool

I'm afraid you'll have to come to terms that you are infected with Multibikebola.  Like ebola, it has no known cures, and can be exceedingly painful on your pocketbook... but it is far from deadly.  Lol
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« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2014, 12:47:28 pm »



Wow... not trying to rub salt in your wounds, but all those mods and you didn't fix the fueling?!  I test rode the FZ09 earlier this year, and the fueling would have been the very first thing I'd fix.

After so many bikes and so many mods, I've learned it is best NOT to buy into any bike with identifiable faults and expect to aftermarket them into submission.  Same goes for trying to mod a bike into what it is not.

The FZ-09 is a great bike and best enjoyed for what it is.

BTW, congrats on one of Hinkley's finest.  Cool

I'm afraid you'll have to come to terms that you are infected with Multibikebola.  Like ebola, it has no known cures, and can be exceedingly painful on your pocketbook... but it is far from deadly.  Lol


The ECU reflash fixed the fueling problems.
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« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2014, 03:34:36 pm »




The ECU reflash fixed the fueling problems.


Well, there you go! No need to get rid of it!
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« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2014, 04:45:19 pm »




Well, there you go! No need to get rid of it!


It made it better. But not what I want to live with everyday.
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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2014, 05:48:57 pm »

Sounds like the ECU reflash didn't get rid of the snatchy throttle then.  When I rode it, I couldn't stand the throttling at low speeds, regardless of which mode I was in.  Powering out of a corner was real touchy.  A lot of proponents of the bike said it could easily be fixed.  That and the suspension, which I assume your mods took care of.

Dunno.  That's a tough one.  If you don't enjoy riding the bike, it's kinda pointless to have around.  I would suggest you put as many stock parts back on as possible and pawn off the mods.  Bikes sell better stock anyway, and farkles don't generally add much to the resale value.

BTW, in case you don't already know, reflashing the ECU on many Triumph bikes is practically free with TuneECU freeware.  You do have to buy an USB programming cable.  About $20.  Triumph fueling is typically spot on right out of the crate.  It's more for picking the right map to match an aftermarket exhaust system.  For some models, like my S3R, there are even a choice of maps that optimize for either 87 or 89 AKI/octane.  If you don't like a particular map, hook up the PC and try another one.  TuneECU will even let you tweak the map yourself... assuming you know what you are doing.
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« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2014, 07:14:08 pm »


Sounds like the ECU reflash didn't get rid of the snatchy throttle then.  When I rode it, I couldn't stand the throttling at low speeds, regardless of which mode I was in.  Powering out of a corner was real touchy.  A lot of proponents of the bike said it could easily be fixed.  That and the suspension, which I assume your mods took care of.

Dunno.  That's a tough one.  If you don't enjoy riding the bike, it's kinda pointless to have around.  I would suggest you put as many stock parts back on as possible and pawn off the mods.  Bikes sell better stock anyway, and farkles don't generally add much to the resale value.

BTW, in case you don't already know, reflashing the ECU on many Triumph bikes is practically free with TuneECU freeware.  You do have to buy an USB programming cable.  About $20.  Triumph fueling is typically spot on right out of the crate.  It's more for picking the right map to match an aftermarket exhaust system.  For some models, like my S3R, there are even a choice of maps that optimize for either 87 or 89 AKI/octane.  If you don't like a particular map, hook up the PC and try another one.  TuneECU will even let you tweak the map yourself... assuming you know what you are doing.


The only thing I could pull off and sell separate is the Penske shock. But, life is not just about $. I added the parts to enjoy riding it better. I missed the mark. One ride on the Tiger was like a date with a future love. It just felt so right.

Now someone else can enjoy the bike as I built it. I paid $8000 new. Stock the resale is about $7000. I added $3k in updates and the best I can realistically expect is 50 cents on the dollar. $7k + 0.5($3000)=$8500. I enjoyed building it more than I enjoy riding it. I have no regrets. It is a fair price. If I can't get it I will just keep it.
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« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2014, 09:39:22 pm »

If I can't get it I will just keep it.

Now you're "cooking on the front burner". Keep it for the sporting rides where putting around at light throttle in lower gears is probably where you're getting the jerky throttle response.
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« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2014, 03:12:37 pm »

It's here ...



Also, I just sold the FZ-09. $8500 Cash.
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Re:
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2014, 08:20:20 pm »

Congrats on both!  Bigok
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« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2014, 10:57:19 pm »

Nope... doesn't look like any fun, at all...  Wink
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« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2014, 11:11:18 am »

Good for you! You had a great day!

Lousy Triumph rider!
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« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2014, 03:27:01 pm »

This is a great bike. So supple. Handles really well. Great power. So so brakes. The will probably change as then seat.
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« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2014, 10:06:39 pm »

Congrats on the sale and the bike.  Several years ago at the bike show, sitting on that was THE most comfortable, fit me out of the box, bike.  Same again this year at a dealer.  Would love to ride one.   Congrats again.
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« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2014, 01:29:50 am »

Let the farkling begin!  Lol
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« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2014, 06:10:12 pm »

I mounted Clearwater KRISTA high power LED lights using Twisted Throttle's SW-Motech Auxiliary Light Mount and Denali spacer. Worked Great!



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« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2014, 07:04:06 pm »

Looks great. It blinds me through the computer screen!! No animals out there gonna hide from you.
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« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2014, 07:35:44 pm »


Looks great. It blinds me through the computer screen!! No animals out there gonna hide from you.


Those lights can fry bacon at 200 paces.
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« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2014, 09:14:10 pm »

After having this bike for two weeks it may be the best bike I ever owned. Fast, supple, sweet handling, comfortable, nice sound, easy to work on. It has everything.

As someone raised on Yamaha's I feel foolish that it took me so long to try something else.
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« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2014, 08:52:08 am »

I have put 25,000 miles on my XC in about a year and a half. I am usually a bike whore.  I can't get one in the driveway before I start dreaming about the next one.  But with the Tigger there is nothing else out there that interests me more. 

Ok let me clarify that a little. My next bike will be a normal 800. I get nightmares thinking about a flat with those tubed tired.  Although the 21" front does make a difference in the dirt and gravel.
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« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2014, 02:28:12 pm »

I just added some 20mm autocannon ammo cans as panniers. Work great.



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« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2014, 03:49:41 pm »

You'll be able to carry some stuff in those cans!

OK, how does the power, handling and so on compare to the FZ09 and FJR?
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« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2014, 04:53:42 pm »


You'll be able to carry some stuff in those cans!

OK, how does the power, handling and so on compare to the FZ09 and FJR?

The Tiger handles better than either the FJR or the FZ (even with the GP suspension and Penske shock I added). It corners like on rails. So smooth. So supple. The 21" front wheel doesn't affect turn in as much as I was led to believe.

The FJr is much more powerful.

The FZ is quicker and more low end torque than the tiger. But the Tiger in no sled. It has 90+ HP and about 450 lbs.

But I haven't had much saddle time in the Tiger yet. But yesterday, in Milwaukee, a guy on a Harley Astro Glide stepped up and tried to test me at a stop light. So I hiked up the Tiger's skirts to see what she could do.

The Harley rider was humiliated in front of his Pirate friends.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 06:36:40 pm by FJRider » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2014, 10:25:21 am »



The Tiger handles better than either the FJR or the FZ (even with the GP suspension and Penske shock I added). It corners like on rails. So smooth. So supple. The 21" front wheel doesn't affect turn in as much as I was led to believe.

The FJr is much more powerful.

The FZ is quicker and more low end torque than the tiger. But the Tiger in no sled. It has 90+ HP and about 450 lbs.

But I haven't had much saddle time in the Tiger yet. But yesterday, in Milwaukee, a guy on a Harley Astro Glide stepped up and tried to test me at a stop light. So I hiked up the Tiger's skirts to see what she could do.

The Harley rider was humiliated in front of his Pirate friends.


How's the heat management?  If I remember when I rented one my right foot got a little toasty.
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« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2014, 11:22:12 am »

Congrats. The 800XC was on my short list when I bought the SM-T. It's at the top of my list now. I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a used 2012 or a new leftover 2013.



How's the heat management?  If I remember when I rented one my right foot got a little toasty.


The bad news is they put the Cat right down there by the riders right foot. The good news is that problem is not hard to rectify.  

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« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2014, 10:42:45 am »



................
...........
.....
...
... a guy on a Harley Astro Glide stepped up and tried to test me at a stop light. So I hiked up the Tiger's skirts to see what she could do.

The Harley rider was humiliated in front of his Pirate friends.


I do that all the time when I'm on my Vespa 300, not difficult at all. I'm thru the intersection and at the speed limit before their 1/2 way into the intersection. As they catch up I throw a big thumbs up and a smile, they stare off into the distance...  Lol

Paul
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« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2014, 07:23:04 pm »




I do that all the time when I'm on my Vespa 300, not difficult at all. I'm thru the intersection and at the speed limit before their 1/2 way into the intersection. As they catch up I throw a big thumbs up and a smile, they stare off into the distance...  Lol

Paul

You are just a bad man. Very rude and condescending.  Bigsmile  Thumbsup
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« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2015, 11:24:21 am »


I just added some 20mm autocannon ammo cans as panniers. Work great.






Details on that set up, please? Whose luggage rack did you buy? I like the ammo can idea.....
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« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2015, 06:46:16 am »




Details on that set up, please? Whose luggage rack did you buy? I like the ammo can idea.....


The rack is from Moose Racing. But I think most racks would accommodate the ammo cans. There will be measuring and drilling through the cans to mount them.
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Re:
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2015, 08:13:59 am »

Every ammo can setup I've ever seen leaks like a sieve.
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« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2015, 01:10:14 pm »

THat's what I Was thinking, but what a great opportunity for that rubbery flexible waterproof seal in an aerosol can - the one they use to spray a screen door into a waterproof bottom for a row boat?  Coat the inside of the ammo cans with that stuff, heavy at the mounting point (and I assume rubber grommet/seals) and you should be in business.

 -Dan
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« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2015, 01:25:00 pm »


Every ammo can setup I've ever seen leaks like a sieve.


Large rubber washers in front of large metal washers bolted through the inside of the case to the frame. No leaks.
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« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2015, 01:27:22 pm »


THat's what I Was thinking, but what a great opportunity for that rubbery flexible waterproof seal in an aerosol can - the one they use to spray a screen door into a waterproof bottom for a row boat?  Coat the inside of the ammo cans with that stuff, heavy at the mounting point (and I assume rubber grommet/seals) and you should be in business.

 -Dan


You don't need to go to that extreme. The top of the can has a military grade gasket and is waterproof. The only entry point of water will be through the holes drilled to mount the cans to the frame. A very easy and manageable job to water proof those.
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« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2015, 08:03:20 am »

And now the 2015's are out. :-[
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« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2015, 10:53:50 pm »


And now the 2015's are out. :-[


For me, the only attractive feature the 2015 has over the previous generation is the WP suspension. I'm not sold on the FBW throttle and associated maps, CC, etc.  The system appears to be the same as used on the Triumph Explorer and it got a lukewarm reception at best by owners.

So... I bought a used 2013 800XC last week that had only 1767 miles on it! Smile

I'm liking it alot. The upgrade/farkle list is fairly short: Better handguards, better skid plate, risers, and possibly a suspension upgrade in the form of Traxxion AK20 cartridges up front and a Penski rear shock, or the OEM '15 WP suspension front and rear which is a bolt in.  The cost of either route on the suspension + the cost of the bike and other farkles is still WAY under what a new XC sells for so I'm happy.
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« Reply #61 on: June 20, 2015, 09:18:01 am »




For me, the only attractive feature the 2015 has over the previous generation is the WP suspension. I'm not sold on the FBW throttle and associated maps, CC, etc.  The system appears to be the same as used on the Triumph Explorer and it got a lukewarm reception at best by owners.

So... I bought a used 2013 800XC last week that had only 1767 miles on it! Smile

I'm liking it alot. The upgrade/farkle list is fairly short: Better handguards, better skid plate, risers, and possibly a suspension upgrade in the form of Traxxion AK20 cartridges up front and a Penski rear shock, or the OEM '15 WP suspension front and rear which is a bolt in.  The cost of either route on the suspension + the cost of the bike and other farkles is still WAY under what a new XC sells for so I'm happy.


Great find!
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