Biggest Motorcycle Model Failure or Success?

[squeezer]

Excelsior-Henderson.  I believe they were in Minnesota for a few years.  They put the cart before the horse, got tons of investor money, built a huge production facility that most established manufacturers would die for and thought a couple adds and an old name would bring in the customers.  The next Harley-Davidson.

Actually, that would be an excellent example.  The factory/office complex really was beautiful.  They never developed a dealer network.  Investors and Minnesota taxpayers lost millions.

They made some pretty jackets, though.  

[Sport-Touring]

[TheGoose]

I have not seen one mention of a motorcycle that defined a whole new motorcycling market segment: the 1981 BMW R80G/S. The GS line is now in its fifth generation (R80, R100, R1100, R1150, and R1200). Special high-performance and adventure versions have been made. It has spun off the R80ST, F650 and F800 GS's. The GS, in different incarnations over several model years, was BMW's largest seller.

One can argue that the Honda Transalp and Varadero, Suzuki's V-Strom, Triumph's Tiger, and Moto Guzzi's dual sport models can trace their inspiration to the original G/S. I'm not saying they would never have happened, but the whole adventure touring thing was jump-started by the Gelande/Strasse.

Quite right, excellent point.

[Kootenanny]

The 1969 Honda CB750 wasn't just evolutionary, it was revolutionary. Everything changed with that one model. Big, multi-cylinder, four stroke, reliable to a fault, good looking...

And, as I understand it, the CB750 was a copy of the MV Agusta 750 Four.  Difference was, Honda was able to make the bike reliable, put it into mass production, and successfully market it in North America.

[jpaul]

Exactly!  Taken to the brink of destruction at the hands of AMF... how.. back and going full speed ahead, despite still selling the same crappy machines they did back in the 70's!   Way to go Hardely!!!    

I always get a chuckle when I read about Harley "taken to the brink of destruction by AMF." The simple fact is that HD was saved by AMF. When they bought Harley Davidson, the factory was obsolete, QC was horrendous, and the make was steadily declining. When they sold the company to the Harley employees, the factory was retooled, engineering had been upgraded (if not modernized), and the brand was poised for the type of growth that most companies would kill for. You may not care for their product, but if the quality and reliability issues hadn't been fixed by AMF, the current owners would never have gotten the financing to buy the company.

[Tar Snake]

How about a composite of the whole British m/c industry circa 1970? They all seemed to have had their collective heads in the sand, didn't take the Japanese seriously, failed to innovate, failed to invest in their factories and just figured people had bought and would always buy their product.

It's similar to what the big US automakers went through at the time.

For marketing success I'd say Ducati, they've been at deaths door a few times, but the beauty (including sound), high class image, and now performance makes the brand sought after.

[stk0308]

Or you could look at the death of the British motorcycle industry as a whole in the late seventies and early eighties and compare it with Triumph's resurrection under John Bloor at the Hinckley factory.

For the first part read "Whatever happened to the British Motorcycle Industry" by Bert Hopwood.  He pretty much covers it.


Another flash over substance bike to look up would be the Norton Nemesis.  Anyone know what happened to Hunwick-Hallam?  They were an Australian firm who build a REALLLY cool twin superbike, with interesting bodywork, then disapeared.
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/06/06/motorcycle-companies-stillborn/

[sammyseaman]

Oval piston was banned from motorcycle racing, so there went that idea.  Can you imagine a valve adjustment on an NR750?

Yeah, 32 valves   no thanks. I can't imagine what they'd charge for that. The VFR is bad enough.

[Zerosum]

And, as I understand it, the CB750 was a copy of the MV Agusta 750 Four.  Difference was, Honda was able to make the bike reliable, put it into mass production, and successfully market it in North America.

Yeah, didn't Honda engineers literally smuggle an MV cylinder head out of Italy and reverse-engineer it back in Japan?

[texrick]

Two motorcycles come to mind just because that the manufacturers abandoned a whole class of bike. The Suzuki GV1400 Cavalcade and the Kawasaki Voyager. I guess since they decided not to compete against Honda for the Goldwing and Harley for Ultra Classic, both manufacturers decided to drop worthy bikes. Marketing had alot to do with it. I wouldn't call rebadged cruisers with windshields and bags full tourers as defined by the Goldwing either.

[stk0308]

Which leads me to another angle of study--just when did Harley's marketing department have the revelation to embrace the "badass" image rather than fight it?  

I would say when Willie G. Davidson became a big-er wheel in the company.

And how did they go about it?

Their design department started borrowing HEAVILY from the chopper custom segement.  To fit in with that group they started marketing more "badass" style gear, and advertisments.  Also because they realized that that market was their bread and butter, and purposely ignored by the Japanese.  The British sort of catered to them, but those companies were failing left and right because of bad money management.  AMF saved HD from the money problems, built new manufacturing to really crank out the units, than drove their quality so far down it took an employee buy out to save it.  But HD got some decent manufacturing equipment in the deal.  As well as a real peach of a motor in the Evo.  Which, BTW, AMF shelved after it became available because they didn't want to risk it's 'newer' technology  

[Jeff N]

Two motorcycles come to mind just because that the manufacturers abandoned a whole class of bike. The Suzuki GV1400 Cavalcade and the Kawasaki Voyager. I guess since they decided not to compete against Honda for the Goldwing and Harley for Ultra Classic, both manufacturers decided to drop worthy bikes. Marketing had alot to do with it. I wouldn't call rebadged cruisers with windshields and bags full tourers as defined by the Goldwing either.

Don't forget the Yamaha Venture, probably the only one that could really measure up to the Gold Wing, but by the time these bikes came out there was already a large and loyal customer base for the Gold Wing.

[c14gregg]

I thought the Suzuki "Way of Life" campaign where "Car meets Motorcycle" was a successful infusion to brand both auto and powersports. I know their product-focused advertising got me thinking about their auto brands.

[XLR8]

I thought the Suzuki "Way of Life" campaign where "Car meets Motorcycle" was a successful infusion to brand both auto and powersports. I know their product-focused advertising got me thinking about their auto brands.

I think so too. I own a Vitara and I once had a GSX-R.  

[Orson]

Oval piston was banned from motorcycle racing, so there went that idea.  Can you imagine a valve adjustment on an NR750?

I don't think Honda's oval-cylindered bike was ever banned. It was 8 cylinder engines that were banned, hence Honda tried to skirt the rule with oval cylinders with the valve area of an 8 cylinder engine.

Yeah, didn't Honda engineers literally smuggle an MV cylinder head out of Italy and reverse-engineer it back in Japan?

I think the CB750 was designed from the technology of their 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder Grand Prix bikes of the 1960s. Although I remember reading something about Japanese smuggling something out of Italy, but it may have been Marzocchi forks   Honda's inspiration for inline 4s may have come from the all-conquering Gileras of the 1950s.

[Kootenanny]

I thought the Suzuki "Way of Life" campaign where "Car meets Motorcycle" was a successful infusion to brand both auto and powersports. I know their product-focused advertising got me thinking about their auto brands.

Sooo, what's happening with the whole "Honda everything" dealerships?  A year or so ago I kept hearing that all Hondas--from lawnmowers to motorcycles to cars--would be sold only at large Honda dealerships.  Haven't seen any sign of that out here in the boondocks, yet...

[Steve Smith]

Unless already mentioned here, the slogan "Kawasaki Let's The Good Times Roll" ,has been around for at least 25 years or so. Well done!

[EnthusiastII]

Yeah, didn't Honda engineers literally smuggle an MV cylinder head out of Italy and reverse-engineer it back in Japan?

By the time the CB750 was introduced, Honda was ahead of MV in engine performance by every measure. And why would Honda use a DOHC head as an example for a SOHC engine. Haven't you ever read about Honda's motorcycle GP successes in the early 1960s and their amazing multicylinder racing engine designs?

[PhilBiker]

I always get a chuckle when I read about Harley "taken to the brink of destruction by AMF." The simple fact is that HD was saved by AMF. When they bought Harley Davidson, the factory was obsolete, QC was horrendous, and the make was steadily declining. When they sold the company to the Harley employees, the factory was retooled, engineering had been upgraded (if not modernized), and the brand was poised for the type of growth that most companies would kill for. You may not care for their product, but if the quality and reliability issues hadn't been fixed by AMF, the current owners would never have gotten the financing to buy the company.

Not to mention the large sprawling York, PA factory was an AMF factory before they bought H-D.  That is a very impressive facility.  I highly recommended a tour of the museum and factory during their annual "open house".  Even if you don't like cruisers it is very cool to walk through a motorcycle factory and see everything work - the crates of engines from Milwakee stacked up to the ceiling, the paint shop, the assembly line, the lines of emty frames ready for assembly.  It's just plain cool.

[PhilBiker]

Two motorcycles come to mind just because that the manufacturers abandoned a whole class of bike. The Suzuki GV1400 Cavalcade and the Kawasaki Voyager.

Not sure I'd have the Voyager in that list.  More appropriate would be the original Yamaha Venture.  The Voyager, like the Concours, was manufactured using the same tooling for something like 15 years.

[XLR8]

Well I don't think I can beat the nicest people ad campaign. Here's another interesting web blip on it.  

http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1959establishingamericanhonda/text08/index.html